Random Complaint Thread

[Norellicus]

Yeah, I'd have to say at least for this particular fight tankspot kind of glosses over some of the finer points. We had the exact same problem with blood council in both 10 and 25 when we first started exploring it, and it took some rather off the wall "hey this is going to sound crazy but what if we..." thinking to come up with something that works.

Something that can help your raid identify this kind of issue is to use live log parsing to WOL and/or addons like GrimReaper to track the overall timeline of who takes damage from what and when. When we started out we did it by the tankspot book too and couldn't figure out why it seemed like the keleseth tank would occasionally just implode; at first we thought they weren't picking up nuclei, but once we had several dozen attempts under our belts (over the course of a few weeks with a few rough successes and a few wipefests), several of us had become comfortable enough with our roles that we could actively watch the keleseth tank and really narrow down the cause of the issue, which eventually led us to the idea to drop shadow resistance, and then it was just a matter of mathematics and realizing that taking 18k+~6k damage every 2 seconds is a lot scarier with only 25~30k health than it is with 50~60k.

[Budonez]

Shadow resistance causes you to resist the ticks from the nuclei, which in turn means you aren't getting the damage reduction effect for the empowered lances.

In addition to this, our Paladin tank had a hard time keeping nucleis on him during the course of the fight resulting in his death once kel got empowered. I'm not sure if it was because of the Shadow Resistence or because Paladin doesn't have multiple range abilities. I did however tank him just fine on my DK using icy touch to grab them and they stayed on me.

[Norellicus]

The last offensive action taken against a nuclei causes it to instantly snap to that person with 5000k threat (by my observations of Omen, at least). If you're losing them, it's likely due to rogue cleaves or things like wandering plague/pestilence.

I haven't tanked them often, but when I have one offensive threat-bearing action has always been enough to keep them on me permanently, through healer aggro and the like. Paladins have enough 'ranged' attacks to get by, as do DKs; warriors are slightly more disadvantaged, but have Warbringer at their disposal, and I would try to avoid having a druid tank kel and the nuclei at all costs as they only have one real ranged ability to use and their charge is on a semi long cooldown (and requires rage which they will have precious little of). It makes collecting nuclei a lot more problematic for them and can cause issues with odd shock vortex placement or occasionally winding up far closer than you ought to be to the fire prince while you chase down a new nucleus across the room.

[Budonez]

So does it have to be an ability for 500k threat? I recalled him using melee attacks to grab them saying it always worked before. (I'm new to this group.)
edit: I'm still perma kel tank but just curious if there was any changes recently.

[Dein]

In addition to this, our Paladin tank had a hard time keeping nucleis on him during the course of the fight resulting in his death once kel got empowered. I'm not sure if it was because of the Shadow Resistence or because Paladin doesn't have multiple range abilities. I did however tank him just fine on my DK using icy touch to grab them and they stayed on me.

Paladin has judgements (10 yd range), exorcism with a cast time and a 15 second CD (30 yd range), and Avenger's Shield with a 30 second CD (30 yd range) which can hit up to 3 targets. One thing I thought I saw when I was gathering Nuclei was that they were immune to HoR's damage though I believe they still came after me when I used it. The biggest problem I felt I had on my run was that I was having issues changing between targets fast enough but that's something I can work out with experience.

[Kaylia]

In addition to this, our Paladin tank had a hard time keeping nucleis on him during the course of the fight resulting in his death once kel got empowered. I'm not sure if it was because of the Shadow Resistence or because Paladin doesn't have multiple range abilities. I did however tank him just fine on my DK using icy touch to grab them and they stayed on me.

I had this problem the first time I tanked him, and people were mad at me. The second time I tanked it, I realized people were aoe'ing/cleaving them down, and it wasn't my fault at all. Tell your dps to single target on this one and there wont be any issue.

Secondly, since the tank has to run around and pop his cooldown on the orb, his threat on the main guy is going to be lower than usual. A good dps going all out will probably steal aggro if they are careless.

[Norellicus]

So does it have to be an ability for 500k threat? I recalled him using melee attacks to grab them saying it always worked before. (I'm new to this group.)
edit: I'm still perma kel tank but just curious if there was any changes recently.

No, white attacks work fine too; it's what I had to do as a bear most times, which is why they're not very good choices to tank him since paladin and DK have better at-range options.

[Cephius]

I always tank Kel on my Protadin in 10 mans, and I've never really had a problem. I usually take a good 10-15 seconds to get a decent threat lead built on him, because after you start running around collecting orbs you're not going to be able to stop to build threat on him. I've found that when he's not empowered, I can quickly hit him with a HotR or Hammer (since you can use execute-style abilities on them) to expand my threat lead. You don't want to lose threat when he becomes empowered, and you don't want to have to worry about it when your survival is most in jeopardy, so try to build as much threat as you can when you're not taking empowered lances.

Like people have already said, it's not hard to grab the orbs. Just remember they don't respond to taunts, you have to hit them with an ability or whack them with a melee attack. They also don't have a lot of health, so don't do more damage than is needed to snap them to you.

[Kaylia]

Pretty sure they at least respond to hand of recokinng 2000 damages (if you don't have threat)..I think..only done it twice.

[Norellicus]

Hand of Reckoning is unique like that since it adds threat and not just equalizes it, other taunts won't have that effect. It'll start coming toward you for the duration of the taunt but then will chase down a healer since they now have the only actual generated aggro on it.

[Cephius]

Pretty sure they at least respond to hand of recokinng 2000 damages (if you don't have threat)..I think..only done it twice.

No, pretty sure you get "immune" message and no additional damage, and the orb won't stick to you. I wasn't understanding why I was losing so many orbs until I figured out that I couldn't taunt them.

[Kaylia]

Lost paladin icc25 token with a 98 rolls...I'm sad.

[Krye]

Lost the roll on Battered Hilt, one of the people even rolled greed so my chances were better than usual. The asshole that won already had Quel'Delar equipped, so I tried to kick him for being a selfish douche. Turns out the other 4 people in the group were all in the same guild. So I secretly wiped the group on purpose a couple times out of spite and left

[Eaglestrike]

People who don't even try to win BG's. I'm sick of this PvPing on alliance where I get the flag and if I manage to mostly solo carry it back to the base I get 0-4 people guarding me and 0-1 (if I'm lucky!) going after their flag. The other 5-8 will farm mid, farm the GY, etc. not even TRYING to get the flag back. Since when was winning no longer a goal?

[Falaras]

People who don't even try to win BG's. I'm sick of this PvPing on alliance where I get the flag and if I manage to mostly solo carry it back to the base I get 0-4 people guarding me and 0-1 (if I'm lucky!) going after their flag. The other 5-8 will farm mid, farm the GY, etc. not even TRYING to get the flag back. Since when was winning no longer a goal?

I'm not saying this is right, but some people think people focus too much on winning in places where you are supposed to be PvPing (BGs). Such as the new idea of zerging drek, you don't even have to fight anyone to win, just zerg an NPC. Some people believe that takes the fun out of PVP.
I couldn't care either way, just saying.

[Eaglestrike]

I'm not saying this is right, but some people think people focus too much on winning in places where you are supposed to be PvPing (BGs). Such as the new idea of zerging drek, you don't even have to fight anyone to win, just zerg an NPC. Some people believe that takes the fun out of PVP.
I couldn't care either way, just saying.

I get doing other things in AV. It's a pretty damn fun BG pre-80 zerg capability. I just did a bunch of AVing on my rogue in the 50's.

WSG is different though. You can very easily get "used to" who you're fighting against and you are almost guaranteed to fight people while completing the main objective of the match.

[Tricen]

@ Blood Council fight, explain why healers pull orbs off of tanks.

[Correction]

@ Blood Council fight, explain why healers pull orbs off of tanks.

wut? Are your priests spamming holy nova or shamans chain lightning? :D

[Tricen]

No, we have times were our druid healers would pull orbs off of the orb guy

[Norellicus]

@ Blood Council fight, explain why healers pull orbs off of tanks.

Tank is only taunting or otherwise doing something not damaging to the orb, is the only reason I've ever observed this.