Random Complaint Thread

[Metta]

Grinding will still be quick and easy.

Dont play with bad people.

[Ishido]

If you get pissed off running with randoms just queue as a full group with your guild? I really hope they get back to the BC heroic difficulty or harder.

[Krye]

My issue with increasing the difficulty of things is that a lot of screw ups come from fps or ms lag. People used to think I was shit cause I could never get out of fire or switch sides in time on Thaddius, I'd always pull lowest healing because I was running at like .5 FPS in raids. Then I got a better computer and router and suddenly I'm the guy that never fucks up and gets pissed at all the bads. I have quite a few good friends that know their shit and try their hardest, but the best internet service available in their area still gives them a good 2-3 second delay on every action. Even with my shitty system I was still able to raid effectively in 80 Naxx. Then they made things more difficult in Ulduar and I pretty much had to quit PVE because I'd die before the fire I was supposed to get out of even appeared on my screen. They made ICC so "hard" that most pugs can't get past the first wing and a lot of guilds can't even clear normal LK. If they're going to further increase the general difficulty of the game, my only hope lies in being able to find 9 other people that can afford a decent computer and happen to live in a place that has access to high speed internet and all of our classes magically line up to form the perfect raid composition.

[Correction]

dying to lag is already a problem on a few heroics in Cata, because despite promises to the contrary spike damage on tanks is pretty much out of control (sup Rom'ogg Bonecrusher). Maybe they only meant for Raid bosses to not kill you in less than a second.

[Despain]

Yea i agree i hope dungeons aren't so difficult, if i have to grind dungeons for badges last thing i want is to be wiping for hours with random people.

Oh complaint, people keep fucking up with defiles, shit is getting on my nerves, not going to kill H LK at this rate, best attempt was 40% last night , most of the time is people dropping their defile in a bad place, like in middle or in the path of the valks.

This is what I mean.

If its something I'm gonna have to grind for badges beforehand, I don't want it to always be difficulty, simply because I can only imagine the amount of stress I'd have to go through with people I queue with who don't know wtf they're doing. I don't want to get burned out and exhausted right before I get into hardcore raiding.

[Tajin]

Pretty sure TBC difficult and Cata difficult are completely different things given the path Blizzard has taken about his MMO.

Edit: With or without Crowd Control in the picture.

[Falaras]

Meh BC heroics where pretty hard too and people still did them (except Slabs!). I actually dislike how Cata made heroics so accessible, having full badge gear is just a given these days, I remember back in BC I didn't have even close to full badge gear.

[Correction]

Meh BC heroics where pretty hard too and people still did them (except Slabs!).

*except Slabs, Arcatraz, Durnholde, Auchenai Crypts and Shattered Halls.

BC heroics had such a poor time/reward ratio until they put in the daily heroics. Not only were they hard, they took ages to get to sometimes and corpse runbacks for some instances were just awful. Cata improves on a lot of this with the LFG tool but any whiff of TBC-style difficulty (i.e. shitting on melee-heavy groups) and getting through it all will fucking suck. Let's hope they give up on the Black Morass/Violet Hold style 'instances,' for example, which force you to START OVER for no reward when you wipe. I don't mind dying to a boss 10 times. I do mind clearing his trash that many times.

[Clemz]

Meh BC heroics where pretty hard too and people still did them (except Slabs!). I actually dislike how Cata made heroics so accessible, having full badge gear is just a given these days, I remember back in BC I didn't have even close to full badge gear.

You mean Wrath? Cata is making them LESS accessible than Wrath, but more so than BC. As it is in Wrath, you hit 80, you do heroics. You can probably count on one hand the number of people that do ANY normals after hitting 80(Outside of ICC normals, which are basically equivalent to the other Heroics). With Cata, on my paladin that just hit 85, in a mix of quest greens/blues, with a 245 trinket and 232 ring, it wasn't letting me queue for heroics at all. You need an average item level of 329 I think it was to even queue for them. Did a few normals, replaced the 245 trinket, got a new 333(I think) chest, and my average item level got bumped to 311.

To be fair, once this is on live and people actually level professions and that gear is out there it will of course be easier to hit that mark, but as it is in beta right now, you have to do a decent amount of normal dungeon farming to even enter heroics.

[D44kpunk]

most fresh 80s cant queue for heroics right away, just sayingz

[Clemz]

I'm not sure what the average item level you need for them now is, but I've gotten tons of sub-3k GS people in heroics. Heirlooms, which admittedly not all fresh 80s will have, make that gap incredibly small. Recently, a couple friends came back to the game and leveled fresh on our server, basically as soon as they hit 80 they were able to queue for heroics with us.

What I'm getting at is, you can almost entirely skip normals as it is now. In Cataclysm, that won't(or shouldn't, because it undoubtedly will) be happening. They seem to be taking it back to the BC style of progression, you did your normals to enter heroics, then heroics to gear for raids. Which I certainly don't mind.

[Falaras]

Yeah I meant Wrath not Cata.

*except Slabs, Arcatraz, Durnholde, Auchenai Crypts and Shattered Halls.

I mentioned slabs and did Shattered Halls all the time. I'll admit I'm not a expert on BC heroics because as a Ret Paladin no one wanted to invite me. I just think Wrath made it too easy, you can get epics without even trying and none of the heroics are a challenge for a group ever. You can grind heroics instead of just doing a few easy ones allowing you to get gear that is only one tier behind and then jump into easycrown citadel and get even better gear as long as its the first 4 bosses.

[Clemz]

To further expand on fresh 80s and heroics. The friends I was talking about, hit 80 on 8/21, they did their first heroic that night. One of them didn't even get the Superior(item level 187 in every slot) achievement until 8/28. So whatever the item level requirement to enter heroics is now, is incredibly low, if it even exists at all.

[Tajin]

I dont think it does because I get loads of freshly dinged 80s that have never done all normal dungeons (or dungeons at all)

[Correction]

I'm extremely leery of them dialing it all the way back to TBC heroic farming, because there were clear 'tiers' of difficulty amongst them without similarly tiered levels of compensation for your efforts. Heroic Slabs didn't reward higher ilvl gear than Heroic Mechanar, but took 3x longer to clear and the bosses were a lot meaner. We'll end up in a situation where tanks and healers will 'get theirs' after a few instant-pop queues then stop running the H. Slabs of Cataclysm, effectively ending that content. For all the railing against Wrath Heroic accessibility going on right now I wouldn't want ICC 5-mans to suddenly only drop ilvl 200 garbage like the rest of them. I want to see 3 'Deepcore Citadel' 5-mans in, say, 4.3 more than I want a single 'Magister's Terrace' that blocks any one of my toons from being ready for the current tiers of raiding content.

[Tajin]

Random Dungeon Finder and Justice points will still work so your point is moot, unless I missed the memo about those being canned.

[Correction]

Random Dungeon Finder and Justice points will still work so your point is moot, unless I missed the memo about those being canned.

So when's the last time you killed Maiden of Grief, Amanitar or Svala Sorrowgrave? Now imagine each of those being as hard as Heroic Blackrock Cavern bosses. This is the scenario I'm predicting if Cata's difficulty curve veers towards TBC levels. Groups will just pass them by because two members won't have any interest in it AND it's really fucking hard.

[Meph]

So whatever the item level requirement to enter heroics is now, is incredibly low, if it even exists at all.

it does exist, but its only notable for ICC5. Im pretty sure you gotta have around 3k+ GS to get into hcHoR

[Clemz]

It won't be quite as bad as BC was I'm imagining, I haven't done any of the heroics yet myself though. If they can manage to find a nice middle ground between the two in terms of difficulty I think they'll make a lot of people happy. I know a lot of people are complaining that they're too hard, but that's coming from a mix of numbers just being off(On just about everything, bosses, healing, DPS etc) and people still in Wrath habits of AOE city and not taking the time to properly CC.

[Falaras]

Meh random dungeon finder doesn't fix the issue, tanks and healers will just leave as soon as they see the hard instance.