Random Complaint Thread

[Kaylia]

If you go OOM, stop using consecration completely (it's not really useful anyway). You might occasionally have downtime in your rotation without it, but it shouldn't be a huge issue, especially if you stick to your basic rotation (CS->AV->CS->judge->CS->SoTR/WoG). Also, mana will become less of an issue as you get more mastery and dodge, especially from normal trash.

Seal of Truth combined with the glyph is the way to go imo, even if you run out of mana occasionally. I will pop seal of the insight only if I think the healing over time could make a difference, or when something drain my mana.

[Cephius]

Yeah, Cons is really utterly useless unless you spec into hallowed ground, and there are better places to spend those points. Unless I'm at full mana and I have no other fillers available, I don't use it. It has situational uses, but no place in a rotation.

Judgements and sanctuary procs should be more than enough to keep from going OOM. Seal of Insight isn't bad, but the 10 expertise you get from Truth is so overbudgeted it makes it impossible to use anything else, especially now that parried/dodged attacks don't generate HoPo.

[The Stig]

I see.

Cons I did feel was useless post 80, but I didn't mention it incase people raged. I just went along with it and used it because I assumed it to be like Death and Decay on DK (my primary char/tank/main) but started noticing it doesn't at all grab that much threat. Dropping cons for only when I have spare MP should help me manage MP better than, for that will save me a good chunk of my pool.

In this case, as I've yet to respec my prot spec since I hit 85, I will go with one of the builds on EJ and drop cons. I do find it an utter waste not only on damage but as a threat grabber.

[Plow]

I'm not playing with DK tanks, but I don't know, 7.5k hps seem absurdly high.

Every death strike is ~13k healing, or more if there's been a lot of damage recently.

Every 13k healing is ~14k absorbed with my current mastery.


We death strike just a bit less often than you crusader strike.

There's also rune tap which heals for ~20k on me and ~6k on each person in my pt just a little less often than every 30 seconds, and there's the fact that lichborne, self healing basically to full if done right, is one of our basic cd's.


It's pretty crazy self healing and absorption, but remember, we run similar dodge and parry with 0% block.

[Tajin]

wasnt lichborne nerfed?

[Kaylia]

Every death strike is ~13k healing, or more if there's been a lot of damage recently.

Every 13k healing is ~14k absorbed with my current mastery.


We death strike just a bit less often than you crusader strike.

There's also rune tap which heals for ~20k on me and ~6k on each person in my pt just a little less often than every 30 seconds, and there's the fact that lichborne, self healing basically to full if done right, is one of our basic cd's.


It's pretty crazy self healing and absorption, but remember, we run similar dodge and parry with 0% block.

Yeah, I'm not worried about tank balance, I just didnt know it was that high.

Anyway, my point wasn't that we can produce high hps, I was simply saying that being able to heal the raid add a nice twist to the class. Tossing 15k-30k words of glory on people can make the difference between a wipe and a success.

[Plow]

wasnt lichborne nerfed?

by roughly 50%, it's still amazing

[Tajin]

oooh a shame I dont raid, and i like pretty numbers on trash with long diseases.

[Falaras]

Fucking blizzard and ignite munching. They decide that fixing ignite munching means mages need a nerf at the same time, fucking ridiculous.

[Viq]

Sup knee-jerk reactions

Since the design of Ignite doesn’t allow us to resolve munching (defined as multiple simultaneous crits that fail to properly proc Ignite) directly, we’re thinking about a solution that would instead prevent Ignite from proc’ing on periodic crits. This might be a minor dps loss, but possibly no dps loss at all since it would stop most cases of munching. If it turned out to be a dps loss, we could compensate for it elsewhere. You're likely to see some experimenting in future patch PTRs. This is a pretty good example of something we can't hotfix, or rather wouldn't try. It’s the kind of change that would likely have unpredictable side-effects.

[Izzy]

Just have to start training yourself to throw out a scorch or something before your use your Pyroblast! or else you run the risk of critting your Fireball then your Pyroblast! within a few tenths of a second of each other and munching the Fireball.

[Mortilox]

If it turned out to be a dps loss, we could compensate for it elsewhere.

Please don't buff flame orb. please.

[Katlan]

How you all enjoying the PTR live realm? I love how they came out and said they aren't treating the live realm like a PTR, but then wtf are they doing changing shit practically every day.. and even some stuff they revert a day or two later. Design / implementation was soo much better before Blizz had the ability to stream content, shit's affected the game for the worse imo. I don't know one person who likes having their class changed every week, for better or worse, its just horrible game design

[Falaras]

Sup knee-jerk reactions

Because blizzard has an awesome record of actually fixing mages this expansion. Ignite munching is what was causing our gear to be worthless as hell because all our stats suck after we figured out crit sucks with ignite munching happening, now they will fix ignite munching but not the over all problem with mages.

[Cephius]

How you all enjoying the PTR live realm? I love how they came out and said they aren't treating the live realm like a PTR, but then wtf are they doing changing shit practically every day.. and even some stuff they revert a day or two later. Design / implementation was soo much better before Blizz had the ability to stream content, shit's affected the game for the worse imo. I don't know one person who likes having their class changed every week, for better or worse, its just horrible game design

I get annoyed by constant hotfixes as well but what do you want them to do? They've addressed this in the past, they want to keep things balanced but PTR data isn't always reliable enough to make balancing changes. For instance, they heard the complaints that shammy healing was lagging behind the other classes, but they wanted a large sample size to see what kind of change was needed. As for the ignite change, there doesn't seem to be a clear-cut fix for it so...

[Mortilox]

God forbid you get disconnected in a random dungeon for 1 minute and you've been kicked.

[Plow]

I get annoyed by constant hotfixes as well but what do you want them to do? They've addressed this in the past, they want to keep things balanced but PTR data isn't always reliable enough to make balancing changes. For instance, they heard the complaints that shammy healing was lagging behind the other classes, but they wanted a large sample size to see what kind of change was needed. As for the ignite change, there doesn't seem to be a clear-cut fix for it so...

It's bullshit.

If that were the reality, then they need to put some incentive to play on the PTR. But that's not the case. As it is, the only thing it does is to catch background bugs and shit that nobody even sees.

You realize we didn't even get to test glyph of dark succor for shit? I tried for a couple days and could not find anyone on the ptr that could make it, and even though the premade toons started with every other glyph, it was blank.

Yet, with literally 0 testing, there's enough feedback *FROM FORUM CRYING ALONE* to nerf it by nearly half while the patch is on the ptr but the glyph is untestable?


Here's the thing:

What you just said basically equates to "It's ok to use the live realms as a PTR." Since they "don't have enough feedback" from the PTR's, they "wait and get a larger sample size on live." Like... that's literally exactly what they're saying they don't do.

[Cephius]

It's bullshit.

If that were the reality, then they need to put some incentive to play on the PTR. But that's not the case. As it is, the only thing it does is to catch background bugs and shit that nobody even sees.

You realize we didn't even get to test glyph of dark succor for shit? I tried for a couple days and could not find anyone on the ptr that could make it, and even though the premade toons started with every other glyph, it was blank.

Yet, with literally 0 testing, there's enough feedback *FROM FORUM CRYING ALONE* to nerf it by nearly half while the patch is on the ptr but the glyph is untestable?


Here's the thing:

What you just said basically equates to "It's ok to use the live realms as a PTR." Since they "don't have enough feedback" from the PTR's, they "wait and get a larger sample size on live." Like... that's literally exactly what they're saying they don't do.

I'm not saying it's okay, I'm saying its unavoidable and even prudent for certain things. If I wanted to address healer (im)balance, what should I trust? Small PTR sample sizes or larger live samples? Anyone who has taken statistics 101 knows that the larger the sample size the more reliable the data is. Obviously, shit like not making glyphs available for testing or letting obvious bugs make their way to live is not excusable. But I mean, would you rather they leave things broken? Like I said, all the hotfixes suck but for SOME of them I don't see how they could have addressed it any better.

[Plow]

Better, longer, (faster stronger) PTRs.

Here's the thing: the imbalances they're attempting to fix with the PTR's are things that are there in the first place. When they make those sweeping changes, they need to be thoroughly tested in the first place. What they're doing is essentially going "Ok, here's the changes we want to make. Put them on the PTR. ... Do they work? Ok, go live, and now let's start looking at if it's balanced."

If the issue is as small as "lack of sample size" on PTR's, there's an extremely easy fix: make the PTR's rewarding. Offer special mounts for X amount of playtime on the PTR, or let people pick one piece of gear that they actually earn on the PTR back to live with them. Think it'd be particularly hard to get a guild to go over to the PTR and test shit if it meant they might pick up a couple asscandy etc.? Or that PvP'ers wouldn't jump at the chance to get an extra piece of arena gear by playing a few extra games on the PTR each week?

It's not, though. It's that they don't fucking know what they're doing and live servers are the simplest place to throw shit in and see how it pans out.

[Katlan]

Blizz used to do better on their PTRs, they have just become more and more lazy it seems (maybe it's true or not, just basing it on what I seem to notice). After every patch their used to be a new PTR up w/in a 1-2 weeks (3 max). Raids were tested for 2+ months usually. Sometimes they would roll around w/ weekly hotfixes on the Tuesday maintenances.

But now it's hotfix after hotfix. idk if they are trying to balance stuff, you don't change a class every other day. Example: priest shield change - nerfed 2 days after it went live. Every priest was saying how it was OP from day one, yet blizz didn't adjust it at all on the PTR.. they left it the same from PTR day 1. So... they hotfix it 2-3 days once its live, then revert part of the hotfix a day later. If they put any sort of data into it they could run simulations to figure out it was OP from the PTR. They just have an idea.. hotfix something, see how it pans out.

I know this is part of the extreme. but Sinestra.. I don't even think they tested that encounter more then 1hr. They should of known the hardcore guilds would have reached her w/in 1-2 months. And, even so, it was so buggy that DK's were doing 1mil dmg? lol... Some encounters in TBC were very buggy at launch, none were that bad. Never has blizz had to hotfix an encounter while it was in progress. And it's because that was the only encounter they didn't let the players test. It's an example of how good blizz's internal testing has become lol