Random Complaint Thread

[aurik]

Well you're dead wrong as usual.

[Guitarman]

I just experienced the funniest thing I will ever see in WoW. I get into a random for zandalari, the warrior is pulling 9k, the hunter pulling 5k. Our tank dies on the first pull, i can't figure out why. I turn around, and our healer is a fucking boomkin. lmao. I can't even be mad. that level of fail is just so amazing its funny.

[Rhyis.]

Feral heals rank supreme.

[Kaylia]

Well you're dead wrong as usual.

Considering that you spent 4.0 and 4.1 crying that that resto druids were underpowered when they were topping parser in most fights, I'm going to assume that you're suffering from heavy bias and can't see beyond your own class.

[aurik]

Except that I also have a tank that I raid stuff with, so I see from both sides of the issue! Get fucking owned.

Tanking is easy as shit compared to dps and healing. 90% of the fights, all you do is place the boss and then mash your threat rotation, and yell at any dps that outthreats you.

SO TOUGH

[Correction]

I hope shaman gear dropped for Paragon today.

[Kaylia]

Except that I also have a tank that I raid stuff with, so I see from both sides of the issue! Get fucking owned.

Tanking is easy as shit compared to dps and healing. 90% of the fights, all you do is place the boss and then mash your threat rotation, and yell at any dps that outthreats you.

SO TOUGH

If that's all you're doing, you're in a 5man dungeon, or everybody is overgeared. Yes, tanking is roll face in these places, but so are all classes. The way you have to weave your cooldown is just as important as the healer's cd, and the fight mechanics are equally hard.

[Viq]

So true. I hate troll heroics because of length and retards, so I usually run old heroics to cover any VP I don't get from Firelands for the week. My mage has carried an awful lot of bad tanks, healers and other DPS. Those dungeons just weren't made for people putting out 23k+ DPS

[aurik]

If that's all you're doing, you're in a 5man dungeon, or everybody is overgeared. Yes, tanking is roll face in these places, but so are all classes. The way you have to weave your cooldown is just as important as the healer's cd, and the fight mechanics are equally hard.

Weave your cooldowns? You just have a max threat rotation, single or multi target, and maybe a max-damage rotation. You position the boss in the prearranged place, you use your defensive cooldowns at the pre-planned times or, if lacking a pre-set rotation, whenever your health dips, or on any telegraphed big damage ability.

When do you have to actually engage your brain? It's not like you're having to choose "which ability should I use next?" whenever your gcd is up.

Well, healers do. Healers also have to deal with the aftermath of a boss using a damage or debuff gimmick on random people, unavoidable or not. Deal with keeping within range of all assigned healing targets, which is especially fun when there is loads of movement and lots of fire to avoid. Many fights the tanks are even exempt from the gimmicks that healers and dps have to deal with all the time, not to mention the dynamic load balancing that needs to happen every time a healer is personally targeted by a gimmick. You don't need to calculate your burn rate of mana on the fly and, if necessary, adjust your healing spell choice or adjust the healing assignment mid-fight. The extent of cooperation with the other tank is generally getting the tank swap timing right, meanwhile healers have to cooperate so that they aren't pissing mana down the drain on overheal, while still doing enough healing in an even enough spread to keep people out of dangerous health.

Well, try playing a healer in a progression raid sometime, it's a much more engaging game.

[Arvin]

I hope shaman gear dropped for Paragon today.

So do I, so do I.

All of the buff homogenizing clearly helped spread out the balance of classes in this game, eh?

[Odon]

I hope shaman gear dropped for Paragon today.

Don't worry, they got 2 agi dps necks, 2 str trinkets and I can't find the 5th item.

[Kaylia]

When do you have to actually engage your brain? It's not like you're having to choose "which ability should I use next?" whenever your gcd is up.

Any decent tanks will tell you that's complete bullshit, but believe what you want if you want to feel like a special snowflake that badly.

The fact is, without a proper use of your cooldown, you will die or put a stress on your healer mana (which is always bad for the inevitable burn phase). Some damages can be anticipated, but spikes are very often randoms and unpredictable, and knowing exactly when to pop the best cooldown for this situation require a lot of raid awareness. You have to understand what the healer is going through, and what cooldown he has left to not waste your own (or his), you also need to evaluate how bad the situation is and what might be needed in the close future to not get caught flat footed. There is also a fuck ton of utility skills that should be used on people or yourself whenever you can .

Again, threat is not an issue, and while it does involve some mindless button pressing (rotations are fairly straigthforward), there is a crapload of stuff to do around it that are meaningful and harder to accomplish.

any fights the tanks are even exempt from the gimmicks that healers and dps have to deal with all the time

And that's exactly why you're just trolling, or can't see beyond your own class (which is most likely the case).

Every classes have fights that involve more responsabilities, and this goes for tank too. Just take encounter like heroic halfus where you will be interupting him, trading aggro on boss, keeping aggro on incoming adds, dodging fireballs, BoP'ing the stack away on top of your rotation and defensive cd. What did you have to do on healer that was so complex mechanics wise? Dodge the fireball?

Or take heroic Al'akir. Everybody deals with the same mechanics, but tanks has to be near perfect to not dies to the lightning, unlikes other class who have more room. Hell, even on normal mode, a single screw up from the tanks would wipe the raid, while healers and dps could easily fails without any impact.

What's about Neferian? You turn onyxia and make sure healer don't get hit by the tails or lightning (the window is extremely short here if you want to avoid both), interupt the adds, then have to kite perfectly in the 3rd phase while the rest of the raid mindlessly zerg the boss. Healers stand in the middle or on nef legs, and do what they do every single fight. Keeping everyone full before crackles offer some challenges but if the raid isnt stupid, it shouldnt be an issue in the first place

This is not to say healers (or dps) don't get rough fight. Chimeron, Balerocs and stuff like that are braindead on tanks while other classes have mechanics that need to be done perfectly, and there often burn phase that will test the healers' skill, but saying that tanks always have less to do is retarded.

[aurik]

Every classes have fights that involve more responsabilities, and this goes for tank too. Just take encounter like heroic halfus where you will be interupting him, trading aggro on boss, keeping aggro on incoming adds, dodging fireballs, BoP'ing the stack away on top of your rotation and defensive cd. What did you have to do on healer that was so complex mechanics wise? Dodge the fireball?

The fact you think interrupting is in any way difficult...well just goes to show you what "difficult things" tanks have to deal with. It's not even on the GCD. Wait for boss spellcast bar, press button. You can even set up a mod to blast out a sound on particular spells if you have trouble catching it.

How to dodge fireballs: When fireball is placed in melee range, take 5 steps backwards.
How to taunt halfus at the right time: wait until your debuff stack drops, taunt halfus.
How to keep aggro on incoming adds: yell at dps to attack the correct target. There should be zero threat issues outside of the first 10 seconds of the fight unless your dps are screwing up. On the whelps just use your aoe threat rotation.
How to BoP your stack as a paladin: press your bop+cancelaura macro button.

What's complicated about healing that fight? You have to avoid fireballs--while casting 2-second cast time heals on 2 tanks up through a stacking a mortal strike debuff with a rapidly changing damage profile as they bounce the boss and adds. While you can afford to use some fast+inefficient heals to bridge gaps, you certainly don't have the mana to sustain that for very long so be sure to measure your need for immediate healing output against the length of the fight and your current mana burn rate. Oh and there's also aoe damage events that need to be healed (as well as patching up anyone who gets tagged by non-lethal incidental damage) and occasionally stray whelps, any missed interrupts also cause massive damage and interrupt casting, same with the sub-50% halfus shouts.

But go ahead and keep thinking that interrupting is hard.

Or take heroic Al'akir. Everybody deals with the same mechanics, but tanks has to be near perfect to not dies to the lightning, unlikes other class who have more room. Hell, even on normal mode, a single screw up from the tanks would wipe the raid, while healers and dps could easily fails without any impact.

I'd like to see you beat al'akir while down a healer in phase 2, good luck healing through massive stacks of Acid Rain with 66% healing output. Also why do you need to be "near perfect" not to die to lightning? You have *more* hp than other classes as well as a constant stream of healing, so you have more room to take damage and live.

What's about Neferian? You turn onyxia and make sure healer don't get hit by the tails or lightning (the window is extremely short here if you want to avoid both), interupt the adds, then have to kite perfectly in the 3rd phase while the rest of the raid mindlessly zerg the boss. Healers stand in the middle or on nef legs, and do what they do every single fight. Keeping everyone full before crackles offer some challenges but if the raid isnt stupid, it shouldnt be an issue in the first place

Nef is the only fight that is tough for tanks in T11, and really just the kiting tank. The nef tank gets to stand there and push his cooldowns from time to time but otherwise his task is...to have the gear/luck to survive while the healers are triaging through all the other bullshit that is going on in this fight.

But really...you think turning the boss when ony's sides flash is difficult at all? Meanwhile healers do what they do every fight: work their asses off to keep the raid alive through crackles, tail swipes, loose adds, breaths, randomly allocated damage and cinders in phase 2. And do all that with spells that just timely enough to prevent death but not so inefficient as to run out of mana. Sure, there's nothing special for healers, but that's because virtually every fight is already miles more complex when healing than it is for tanking.

[Kaylia]

The fact you think interrupting is in any way difficult...well just goes to show you what "difficult things" tanks have to deal with. It's not even on the GCD. Wait for boss spellcast bar, press button. You can even set up a mod to blast out a sound on particular spells if you have trouble catching it.

Interupting alone isnt hard, interupting while doing 10 others things can be. Yes, all these thing would be simple to do on their own, but they all come within a few seconds of each others, and it quickly become a clusterfuck.

There is no possible argument with you because everything is going to be downplayed to "all you have to do is press a button", which is stupid and hypocritical. It would be easy to downplay healing with your mentality, because the choice you're making aren't as complex as you make it sound. All you need is a few self imposed threshold on mana, and having a good feeling on the incoming damage input (something that is required on tanks as well). It's not like you have to solve a 10 variable equations every time you throw a heal at someone.

How to dodge fireballs: When fireball is placed in melee range, take 5 steps backwards.

You have to avoid fireballs--while casting 2-second cast time heals on 2 tanks up through a stacking a mortal strike debuff with a rapidly changing damage profile as they bounce the boss and adds

There will be much less fireballs to deal with as a range, and there wont be a clusterfuck of mobs and melee moving around you. Not only that, but if you move 5 yard backwards, the odds that you will be out of range and miss an interupt is high, so you can't simply do that.

I'd like to see you beat al'akir while down a healer in phase 2, good luck healing through massive stacks of Acid Rain with 66% healing output. Also why do you need to be "near perfect" not to die to lightning? You have *more* hp than other classes as well as a constant stream of healing, so you have more room to take damage and live.

I'm talking about the 1 target lightning that hit the tank for a buttload of damage whenever he is not at melee range. If you fall off or get carried away on tank, you're done for.

The beginning of phase 2 isnt that healing intensive, even on heroic. Dodging the tornado in that phase isnt even an issue, especially for range who can take all the time they want.

to have the gear/luck to survive while the healers are triaging through all the other bullshit that is going on in this fight.

Right...

But really...you think turning the boss when ony's sides flash is difficult at all? Meanwhile healers do what they do every fight: work their asses off to keep the raid alive through crackles, tail swipes, loose adds, breaths, randomly allocated damage and cinders in phase 2. And do all that with spells that just timely enough to prevent death but not so inefficient as to run out of mana. Sure, there's nothing special for healers, but that's because virtually every fight is already miles more complex when healing than it is for tanking.

You don't turn onyxia when she start flashing, you turn onyxia at the very last second before she shocks everybody, otherwise, you will swipe people. Breath and crackle should be mitigated by your cd.

I was able to keep a warlock and myself up in phase 2 while doing the interupt. Truly, it can't be that hard as a healer, even with 4 person on it.

Anyway, you're just being retarded like always if you truly believe that healers have it worse than other classes in raid.

[aurik]

I'm talking about the 1 target lightning that hit the tank for a buttload of damage whenever he is not at melee range. If you fall off or get carried away on tank, you're done for.

Lmfao...glad I'm not raiding with you if you consider this mechanic even slightly relevant to the al'akir fight.

[aurik]

You don't turn onyxia when she start flashing. You turn onyxia at the very last seconds before she shock everybody, otherwise, you will swipe people. Breath and crackle should be mitigated by your cd.

I was able to keep a warlock and myself up in phase 2 while doing the interupt. Truly, it can't be that hard as a healer, even with 4 person on it.

First, tail swipe and side-lightning are on different timers so it's not possible to avoid the abilities to line up from time to time. "Delay turning the boss until just before the lightning goes out" is neither hard nor clever, it's just common sense and reduces the chance of both happening simultaneously, but guess who still needs to plan around the possibility that they will?

Also congratulations keeping up 2 self-healing classes through post-nerf non-heroic nefarian phase 2 while using an off-the-gcd interrupt. Why are you raiding with failing healers who can't go to the correct platform?

[Arvin]

You'd be surprised at the amount of people who can't interrupt.

[aurik]

I've stopped being surprised at the amount of people bad at the game, I still do random dungeons on alts for vp and praying for a goodie bag with a sewer rat.

[Kaylia]

First, tail swipe and side-lightning are on different timers so it's not possible to avoid the abilities to line up from time to time. "Delay turning the boss until just before the lightning goes out" is neither hard nor clever, it's just common sense and reduces the chance of both happening simultaneously, but guess who still needs to plan around the possibility that they will?

Also congratulations keeping up 2 self-healing classes through post-nerf non-heroic nefarian phase 2 while using an off-the-gcd interrupt. Why are you raiding with failing healers who can't go to the correct platform?

Who talk about Neferian post nerf? It was on our first attempt months ago, before the first 10m nerf (when they reduced shadowbolt by 20%).

And yes, tails swipe and the side-lightning are on a different timer, but it doesn't change the fact that if you turn at the last second, you can avoid pretty much every swipes. The concept is simple, but executing this perfectly, while making yourself easy to heal with your cd is still more trouble and planning than you believe.

It's a shame that you don't understand the symbiosis that goes between tanks and healers, but considering how self centered you're since FFXI early day, it's not very surprising to see you have such a partisan opinion.

Lmfao...glad I'm not raiding with you if you consider this mechanic even slightly relevant to the al'akir fight.

The damage on heroic, added on top of everything can become unhealable very fast, and if you ever have the bad luck to get caught by a single tornado or fall off the platform, you will be insta killed because of it, unlike every other class.

[aurik]

Congratulations keeping up 2 self-healing classes on nef 10man pre-nerf then.

Also laughing at the fact you think heroic al'akir had room for anyone, particularly a healer, to take a ride in a tornado or get knocked off the platform.