Random Complaint Thread

[Katlan]

Even if wow is in a decline, it still has like 11million more subscribers than any other mmo lol. Going to be a long time before that decline is actually noticeable, or makes a difference, or really affects anything whatsoever.

I think WoW's population is only around 2-3 million for US. Most of its players are from oversees. I like the "biggest patch since cata release" thing since cata patches have been really tiny. All this big patch will mean is that we get a raid and 5 man dungeon in one patch instead of 2 separate ones.

and lol at them saying we will get 4.3 by the end of the year. Did anybody not expect that? We will obviously get a patch around the time of SWTOR release

[Lordender]

The best thing about cataclysm = the ost and we can listen to that shit on youtube.

[Correction]

I would bet that blizzard counts any chinese player that's logged in, even for a minute, within an X month period as a "subscriber" for their business numbers.

The official metric for a Chinese subscription is an account that has played within the last 30 days. So yeah it can account for a lot of volatility in the WoW subs. I didn't see if Blizz mentioned the geographical breakdown of the 900k lost subs.

[Skeeterxi]

People keep moaning and bitching about the 'skeleton crew' and 'b team' working on Cata and I really have to wonder where they got that idea, as if somehow the work put into Cata is only a fraction of what was put into Wrath or TBC. Y'all aren't even naming names (in b4 furor and tigole were the heart and soul of WoW).

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/3...ont_Of_WoW.php

"We've spent a lot of time over the last number of years transitioning those people off [of World of Warcraft], and having great people below them that were trained up by them to run World of Warcraft," Sams said. "Those people have been doing it for the last couple of years without the assistance of those people that created it.

I can't speak for anyone else but I sure as hell have felt the quality of this gaming going down. Reused Naxx, ToC, RS? Ulduar was amazing and ICC was ok. TBC brought a lot of news things and WoTLK only expanded on them. Cata has been a turd with nothing but reused ideas.

[Tajin]

The quality is not that lower, its the difficulty that has gone down, allowing people to gear many alts, instead of working your ass off in 1 character. People gets burned faster doing the same stuff over and over, over many toons.

TBC dailies had you going all over the place, plus there were many hubs. The dungeon finder has people playing less (no time wasted setting up a group). and the overall quality of players has gone down.

[Correction]

I can't speak for anyone else but I sure as hell have felt the quality of this gaming going down. Reused Naxx, ToC, RS? Ulduar was amazing and ICC was ok. TBC brought a lot of news things and WoTLK only expanded on them. Cata has been a turd with nothing but reused ideas.

I think you're cherry-picking what gets to count as a 'reused idea' to fit your argument. Gimmick fights notwithstanding raid encounters haven't really changed that much since Molten Core. I don't know why you're enshrining TBC as the peak of innovation when the class-stacking race from AQ/Naxx40 was simply converted into a class-stacking race when raids became 25-man operations. The date of the article seems to guarantee that Ulduar (everyone's favorite pure raiding experience, if this board's sentiment is anything to go by) was conceived from the ground up by this very 'b-team' decried as the downfall of WoW's creative spark.

[aurik]

Ulduar was mostly built during wotlk launch, delayed and iterated on for another 6 months. That's why it was so good: it had lots of development time invested.

Cata has set a new low point for speed/size of content though. We're now into the 9th month of Cata--at this point in Wrath, ToC was right around the corner. 4.1 was 2 reused/rebuilt 5-mans...that's a content patch? 4.2 is 7 bosses (half a tier) and an "argent tournament" style set of dailies.

If they want to reverse the trend, they need to re-think their content delivery speed.

[Kaylia]

I think you're cherry-picking what gets to count as a 'reused idea' to fit your argument. Gimmick fights notwithstanding raid encounters haven't really changed that much since Molten Core. I don't know why you're enshrining TBC as the peak of innovation when the class-stacking race from AQ/Naxx40 was simply converted into a class-stacking race when raids became 25-man operations. The date of the article seems to guarantee that Ulduar (everyone's favorite pure raiding experience, if this board's sentiment is anything to go by) was conceived from the ground up by this very 'b-team' decried as the downfall of WoW's creative spark.

I never understood why people complain about creativity when it's pretty much the same as before, with slightly better visual and more polished mechanics. What changed the most is gears progression and how easy it is to get into raiding now, but the content itself is very similar.

I do admit that the current raid format should be changed, because having a single worthwhile raid lockout isn't enough. You should always have to pick between two or three events, and have something to do in your free time .


And dungeon grind is boring as fuck after the first 2 weeks. They need to remove valor point out of them completely.

[Skeeterxi]

I'm not enshrining TBC, I'm just saying it brought more new things to the table. Raids are raids you are right but it brought the transition to 25s and the first 10 man and WoTLK improved upon it with heroic version of raids and having a 10 man version of all of them. TBC also brought flying mounts, arenas and heroic 5 mans.

What did Cata bring? Guild leveling and talents are cool I suppose but it can be as big a pain in the ass if you switch guilds. Archaeology is a complete joke. 10 and 25s sharing lockouts was a horrible idea. Maybe you're right and I am cherry picking. This whole expansion has just been boring as hell to me.

[Correction]

I understand why people complain, do anything over and over again for 2+ years and pretty soon more of the same just feels worse and worse. It's why I quit FFXI. It's probably why anybody leaves any MMO. If you've raided since Vanilla then you miss Vanilla for the nostalgia. If you've raided since Point in Time X you miss that for the same reasons. Cata probably feels stagnant because it didn't take any serious risks with the endgame model (the way WotLK did with heroic modes, or the way TBC did with all the insane gating and the conversion to 25-mans). It doesn't feel new because you're as good as this game will ever let you be, and all that's left to do is put the new shiny clothes on your virtual barbie doll warrior. The sensation can easily get stale if the company around you shares that eyes-glazed over fatigue.

I think people just dump on the 'b-team' or Activision or 'Bli$$ard' because they can't figure out why they don't like doing what they do anymore. See the classical definition of insanity. Also Meresgi.

[Tajin]

Really? flying mounts... lol Well going by that, you can fly on 90% of Azeroth/Draenor now.

[aurik]

"guild leveling" is a pretty big failure, as is archaeology.

The rebuild of the 1-60 zones was a pretty massive success I'd say.

[Skeeterxi]

They redid the 1-60 revamp because the retention rates of lower levels wasn't very good. I would say that actually bit them in the ass considering the subs are down 900k. Whats the point in retaining new subs if you lose that many of your old ones. The resources could have been better used. Leveling is a complete joke even without the BoA gear, most people don't even read the quests or they read them once and just burn through them and speed level the rest of their alts.

[Rhyis.]

Vanilla leveling is significantly more enjoyable then it's ever been.

[aurik]

They redid the 1-60 revamp because the retention rates of lower levels wasn't very good. I would say that actually bit them in the ass considering the subs are down 900k. Whats the point in retaining new subs if you lose that many of your old ones. The resources could have been better used. Leveling is a complete joke even without the BoA gear, most people don't even read the quests or they read them once and just burn through them and speed level the rest of their alts.

How do you know that without the 1-60 revamp they wouldn't be down 1.5mil subs? (You don't)

[Skeeterxi]

How do you know that without the 1-60 revamp they wouldn't be down 1.5mil subs? (You don't)

How do you know they wouldn't have kept the numbers?(you don't) Neither of us can prove it either way. My opinion though if they had made more and better content at 85 they would have had a better retention rate with Cataclysm. The game is old how much new blood does it really get for new leveling experience to have a big impact? Most of the veteran players have leveled countless alts already and just speed level whenever they do level more. I actually started leveling alts to experience the new 1-60 after I got my warlock to 85, even on a high population tagged server it was a ghost town, felt like I was playing a single player game. WoW grew to 12m subs with vanilla 1-60, so it couldn't have been that big of a problem.

Just my opinion.

[Arvin]

what it boils down to, is we're all still playing this god forsaken game. so there must be something that they do right,

[Draygon]

Would've been top 3 holy paladin on Rhyolith (Recount shows above #1 on WoL), but raid leader forgot to run the logs! Awesome.

[Correction]

How do you know they wouldn't have kept the numbers?(you don't) Neither of us can prove it either way.

Just my opinion.

There's a difference between an opinion and a silly guess. Guess which one is more irritating to read?

[fantasticdan]

WoW grew to 12m subs with vanilla 1-60, so it couldn't have been that big of a problem.

No, they definitely didn't hit that number in vanilla, they made a big deal about 10m at some point during tbc, which was the peak at the time.

The ballooned numbers from chinese penny subs makes the global subscription numbers pretty meaningless thou.

what it boils down to, is we're all still playing this god forsaken game.

Spoiler: show

http://tf2wiki.net/w/images/thumb/5/...250px-Nope.png

I was dissatisfied with just about everything in cata at release (class changes, the raids, stale pvp, etc), and haven't played since. Recycled heroics, firelands, and paid premium services haven't exactly enticed me to resub, lol.