Random Complaint Thread

[aurik]

Cataclysm content requires 80. No leaving NRend early.

[Diamicles]

Cataclysm content requires 80. No leaving NRend early.

NNNNNNNNNNNNNUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


oh well, maybe another couple days at most up there.

[Tricen]

I wish Blizz would remove ilvl from pvp gear.

[aurik]

The problem isn't the gear...the problem is the people. For most classes, the 371 pvp gear is actually better in pve than everything up to and sometimes including 353s from ZA/ZG.

[BadKarma]

The problem isn't the gear...the problem is the people. For most classes, the 371 pvp gear is actually better in pvp than everything up to and sometimes including 353s from ZA/ZG.

Had a Hunter in the full 359 set in a troll the other day doing 8k dps. HOW DID HE EVER GET THROUGH A RAID? Also he didnt want to do ghosts on Jin'Do because he says hes better on chains.


I wish i could have Jackie Chan face'd him.

[avelle]

Finished the 1000 seething cinders last night and got my Runestaff of Nordrassil and I was all like



And then I used the staff to get smoldering essences off Heroic Bethilac and Majordomo (need 250) and got 5 off each kill.



Problem 10 mans?

Looking like another 7 weeks to finish our first staff... I know they needed to balance the acquisition rate between 25 mans and 10 mans, but holy fuck.

edit: Also I wasn't able to get any essences off the bosses we killed earlier in the night. Not sure if that was in the list of things hotfixed recently or not.

[Katlan]

Can't wait for the LFR tool when they still allow pvp gear to count for ilv for randoms. Randoms (that I always usually do w/ 1-2 other guildies) are making us all cry because 80% of the time everyone else is fuckin horrible. Not only that, the rate of getting a fresh dungeon is like 20% now-a-days. Queing w/ 3 ppl getting dungeons in progress. Always dungeons in progress. Shit sucks. They need to do something about fixing the random dungeon finder and make it so pvp gear doesn't count. Since pvp gear ilv is so high its letting terrible players w/ 333 gear and like 4 pvp 381 pieces to do upper level heroics.

but w/ LFD tool being so terrible w/ pugs, I could never even dare try the LFR tool

[FailureMidgard]

Can't wait for the LFR tool when they still allow pvp gear to count for ilv for randoms. Randoms (that I always usually do w/ 1-2 other guildies) are making us all cry because 80% of the time everyone else is fuckin horrible. Not only that, the rate of getting a fresh dungeon is like 20% now-a-days. Queing w/ 3 ppl getting dungeons in progress. Always dungeons in progress. Shit sucks. They need to do something about fixing the random dungeon finder and make it so pvp gear doesn't count. Since pvp gear ilv is so high its letting terrible players w/ 333 gear and like 4 pvp 381 pieces to do upper level heroics.

but w/ LFD tool being so terrible w/ pugs, I could never even dare try the LFR tool

You realize pvp gear is better than pve gear for pve when you're in the lower tiers of gear right? If you're in ZA/ZG gear, 2pc 371 is going to roughly be universally better. Taking this even further, a lot of pve geared casters are running 17% hit, which is wasting some 1200 rating in the -exact- same fashion that resilience does, without giving extra primary stat. My newish alt warlock is rocking 2pc 384 pvp gear (For the +70 int bonus and a shitton of int to begin with), and there is nothing better to get short of Firelands. They are making a huge mistake if they make pvp gear not count, since it's actually BiS for the gear range being discussed...if you actually think gear is the problem, maybe ZA/ZG should just require a 359 ilvl to queue.

[Katlan]

While you may be the exception, I find 90% of the pugs in random's that use pvp gear are beyond terrible and they have terrible gear and are using a few pieces to inflate their ilv.

Allow me to give you one of many examples: me and 2 guildies que for a random.. get an in-progress ZA (what a surprise to get an in progress group), right after we enter the war then drops making it 1/5 ppl left.. The rogue swears he just entered and was new to the instance. He was rocking 3 pvp pieces, 75% 333 blues, a green trinket, and like 1 259 piece.. But yet he can get into ZA/ZG.

We get to the first boss that was up (dragonhawk) and we keep wiping.. looking at rogue he is doing 7k dps and after 2 wipes we ask him wtf he is doing dueing the boss and he says "rogues don't do adds". We then kicked him. But, sadly, this makes up most of the ppl w/ pvp gear I run across. It's not decent geared ppl using a few pvp pieces because they are better, it's baddies using the gear to skip the ilv check

[Kaylia]

People are just bad all around. I used pvp gear to inflate my ilvl to get in zandalari (did a single heroic before that), and had no trouble keeping up or outdamaging everyone.

He was rocking 3 pvp pieces, 75% 333 blues, a green trinket, and like 1 259 piece.. But yet he can get into ZA/ZG.

Something seem off. Unless he is keeping every pieces in his inventory, how can he average 342?

[FailureMidgard]

While you may be the exception, I find 90% of the pugs in random's that use pvp gear are beyond terrible and they have terrible gear and are using a few pieces to inflate their ilv.

Allow me to give you one of many examples: me and 2 guildies que for a random.. get an in-progress ZA (what a surprise to get an in progress group), right after we enter the war then drops making it 1/5 ppl left.. The rogue swears he just entered and was new to the instance. He was rocking 3 pvp pieces, 75% 333 blues, a green trinket, and like 1 259 piece.. But yet he can get into ZA/ZG.

We get to the first boss that was up (dragonhawk) and we keep wiping.. looking at rogue he is doing 7k dps and after 2 wipes we ask him wtf he is doing dueing the boss and he says "rogues don't do adds". We then kicked him. But, sadly, this makes up most of the ppl w/ pvp gear I run across. It's not decent geared ppl using a few pvp pieces because they are better, it's baddies using the gear to skip the ilv check

I mean, I've used gear to skip the ilvl check too...got a new alt to 85, go pull random boe epics out of the guild bank and let them sit in my bag so I can queue ZA/ZG, put them back once I get some drops for legit ilvl. Don't get me wrong, there's a ton of baddies, but I've seen a mage in full pvp gear in a ZA, and he pulled some ~33k on the first boss of ZA (he almost beat me, I was a little upset, but fuck mages with all cooldowns+lust up on a 50second fight). He was a full pug too, btw. Also, on all my alts I've inflated my ilvl on, I've done just fine. I really don't think gear is the issue. Give that rogue you mentioned full 359 pve gear and he'll pull 9-10k. The problem is he sucks, not pvp gear, though ya, pvp gear may let him get in, he'd get there eventually anyway, and still suck. I've also seen people in 378/359 mixed gear that struggle to break 10k on a simple fight, it's sad overall, but changing pvp gear isn't going to make people good suddenly, and it hurts everyone and the entire game when you make people wear/carry/use gear that is just worse so they can manage an ilvl check. Really, it needs to stop counting BoE gear in bags unless it's soulbound more than a fix to pvp gear. Really though, -more- people -should- be wearing pvp gear in low gearlvl pve, especially in shoulder/head.

Also, on that same rogue, he coulda done the same thing buying a 378 epic or 2 off the ah. That being said, how did he not have a 365 ring and cloak? Guy must just be an idiot...

[Katlan]

Didn't check his gear that thoroughly, but just giving you an idea of what it looked like. I know saying using pvp gear, ect... to inflate ilv isn't always a just statement since if i did the same I would still be pretty good dps since I don't fail. But it's just what I'm seeing more and more often.

A good player who uses gear in their inventory, ect... to do ZA/ZG or heroics isn't gonna be that big of an issue since, hell.. when I first started to do cata heroics on my druid right after cata launched I was still doing 12k on average in greens and shitty blues lol. I just see bad players do this more and more often and it makes me really frustrated. that, and also the fact that it seems even if you que 4/5 to a random u still have a decent chance to get an in progress group (which wouldn't be a problem if ZA didn't reward a mount lol)

[FailureMidgard]

Didn't check his gear that thoroughly, but just giving you an idea of what it looked like. I know saying using pvp gear, ect... to inflate ilv isn't always a just statement since if i did the same I would still be pretty good dps since I don't fail. But it's just what I'm seeing more and more often.

A good player who uses gear in their inventory, ect... to do ZA/ZG or heroics isn't gonna be that big of an issue since, hell.. when I first started to do cata heroics on my druid right after cata launched I was still doing 12k on average in greens and shitty blues lol. I just see bad players do this more and more often and it makes me really frustrated. that, and also the fact that it seems even if you que 4/5 to a random u still have a decent chance to get an in progress group (which wouldn't be a problem if ZA didn't reward a mount lol)

See, we're ecstatic whenever we get an an inprogress, we've actually gotten an inprogress queueing with 5. On my classes that can tank, I actually fish/drop queue repeatedly until I get an inprogress 'cause I just don't want to clear it all for valor. :/

[aurik]

^ One time queueing with 4 we got a ZA on the 2nd to last boss. Best heroic ever. And as I said before, the problem isn't the gear. It's the people.

Random complaint of the week: hurricane irene took out one of our raiders' power/internet so we've barely been able to clear, let alone do progression, going into our 2nd week now. We're at 3/7 when we really should be at 5/7 or 6/7...

[aurik]

And then I used the staff to get smoldering essences off Heroic Bethilac and Majordomo (need 250) and got 5 off each kill.

Confirmed stealth-nerf by mmoc/blizz. Enjoy your 10 weeks per staff in 10man.

[Odon]

Wooooooooooooooow

[Correction]

^ One time queueing with 4 we got a ZA on the 2nd to last boss. Best heroic ever. And as I said before, the problem isn't the gear. It's the people.

I got my ZA bear from a group that averaged 11k dps per boss except for me. The difference was our total lack of downtime on trash and a healer/tank combo that understood their cooldowns. I also love in progress ZA because more often than not nobody sticks around afterwards for the free gold/extra 2 bits of loot from satchels on bosses they did kill under the timer. Yay 35+ free gold.

[FailureMidgard]

Confirmed stealth-nerf by mmoc/blizz. Enjoy your 10 weeks per staff in 10man.

It's even worse than that though.

25man raid with 6/7N starts phase2 at the start of week3.
10man raid with decent/good luck and progression starts phase2 at the start of week6.
25man raid assuming average progression starts phase3 in the start/middle of week6.
25man raid finishes first staff at end of week9, starts 2nd P2 during week9.
25man raid finishes 2nd staff at end of week11/start of week 12 (post hotfix for the last bit).
10man raid with top progression starts phase3 middle of week11, post hotfix.
25man raid finishes 3rd staff at end of week15.
25man raid finishes 4th staff at end of week19.
10man raid with top progression finishes first staff at the end of week21.
25man raid finishes 5th staff at end of week 23 (~first week of December).

25man raids should have 4 staves -before- 10mans finish 1. And if you look at an infinite timeline, the 1:2.5 may be true (eventually), realistically the ratio is going to be 5:1 when 4.3 releases (or maybe within a week of 4.3 releasing?). It's possible it will only be 4:1, but that's still a bit out there, and 5:1 seems quite likely for the start of next tier. Don't worry though, when Paragon goes into the 10man after clearing it all with 5 staves, they'll say 10man is undertuned and way too easy!

Oh ya, for any that care, expected completion date for 10man staff#2 is the first/second week of Feb (End of week 31), and this is assuming you're near the top end of progress thus far, and should already have started phase3 this week. An equally progressed 25man guild is completing 7 staves 1-2 weeks earlier, maybe 8 by the time you have 2 if your guild is even 1 week behind.

{edit: basically, Blizzard gave 25mans an extra 1.5ish staves relative to 10s by nerfing it at this point in time, right before any 10mans got to benefit from the higher droprate at all...and I messed up slightly, but fixed!}

[avelle]

It's ok, I'll have a pretty sweet staff by the time we're working on Deathwing.

[FailureMidgard]

Really, at this point Blizzard needs to make 10 and 25 both get the same # on the final step per kill (10 or w/e in both raid sizes). As far as I can tell it wouldn't benefit 25man to go into separate 10s because they'd be slowing down Seething Cinders phase by doing so, which is right about the same completion time as phase3 if both are done in 25m (or was that nerfed too?), but would allow 10mans to end up where it should be...1st staff end of week 15ish, 2nd staff end of week 22ish, putting 25man at 5 staves and 10man at 2 staves in early december (which is expected release, and gives a 2.5:1 ratio?).