Random Complaint Thread

[Siniroth]

Can't put out enough damage to burn down Gormok with the solo attempts I've done, I can make a few adjustments (like using all potential buffs available to me), and I'm sure I can survive the worms and icehowl if I can get past him, just the combination of random stun and impale kills me too early =/

Edit: Also, my DBM or bigwigs refuses to work on lady deathwhisper so I can't time add spawns properly, fml

[Aesctaa]

1) Carrying barely geared people in 378 gear or under who refuse to do LFR in their own time but then bitch like crazy when 397 tokens are given to other people.

2) Latest guild made 50 pulls on H yor without surviving more than 3 phases; healers and 2-3 of the dps in 380ish pvp+pve gear mix yet leader rages at people not being able to kill it and refuses to pull anything normal mode until its dead.

3) Getting upgrades in invisible slots.

[niwaar]

1) Carrying barely geared people in 378 gear or under who refuse to do LFR in their own time but then bitch like crazy when 397 tokens are given to other people.

2) Latest guild made 50 pulls on H yor without surviving more than 3 phases; healers and 2-3 of the dps in 380ish pvp+pve gear mix yet leader rages at people not being able to kill it and refuses to pull anything normal mode until its dead.

3) Getting upgrades in invisible slots.

So wait, you are in a guild doing heroics that refuse to do LFR in their free time? AND your raid leader is a huge moron who refuses to see the writing on the wall for an encounter that you obviously need to go back to the drawing board on?

Dunno, may be time to rethink a few things man.

[Seid]

Yesterday: Queue up for LFR... get in to Wyrmrest for last 2 bosses, which Im ok with since didnt have a ton of time. Im on my mage (fire), so I check out the competition... I see like 1 other mage in the group... I lead the meters (lollfr?) on boss #3, lose 2 items to the other mage from that boss... of course this sucks, but I get to looking and this just blows my mind... he did 6k dps on the boss! AND he is Arcane AND he has not a single gem or enchant on any item! WTF!? Arcane mages can fall asleep on their Arcane Barrage key for more than 6k! So you have to actively TRY to not do any damage! Last boss, its a cluster from the tanks dying... but we get her down... yep, he managed to do 4k on that boss.

Unreal! This is why we cant have nice things!!!

Sorry for the rant, but damn, when you are one of the best DPS spec's in the game and it can be played by your cat and do ok DPS and you do this crap!?... wtf are you even in there for!?

[The Stig]

I noticed LFR actually rewards people for being last/retarded lol :

Think Mario Kart.

Things I recall:

1st boss - ret paladin didn't get out the black shit - won shoulder token
4th boss - druid died during 1st ice wave, no one res'd him, won token and some other item

And any low DPS in Madness of Deathwing. I seemed to have won a few Gunthrak's just for being low DPS as a tank lol

[Correction]

My guild often asks me why I won't LFR Fall of Deathwing. I tell them I can't stand to carry retards to victory and reward them with items.

[Kaylia]

I have yet to see a LFR party wipe more than 3 times. You being around or not is unlikely to change the outcome

[Correction]

This does not change the fact that I consistently top meters on almost every boss, and watch some keyboard-turning baddie get tier tokens and trinkets on the backs of me and the 3-4 other DPS who actually know how to play their class. I'm simply avoiding the teeth-grinding frustration this causes.

[niwaar]

Yhe did 6k dps on the boss! AND he is Arcane AND he has not a single gem or enchant on any item! WTF!? Arcane mages can fall asleep on their Arcane Barrage key for more than 6k! So you have to actively TRY to not do any damage! Last boss, its a cluster from the tanks dying... but we get her down... yep, he managed to do 4k on that boss.

Unreal! This is why we cant have nice things!!!

Sorry for the rant, but damn, when you are one of the best DPS spec's in the game and it can be played by your cat and do ok DPS and you do this crap!?... wtf are you even in there for!?

This is the reason why Blizzard needs to modify looking for dungeon and looking for raid. They clearly are capable of giving us a "total damage/healing done" scoreboard for BGs. We need one after each boss in LFR. Each role should have a minimum threshold in which the game believes they actively participated in the battle. If you fail and die early in an encounter, sorry but you failed and didn't get ressed so you are sol on loot. If you forget how to do damage and do 6k dps on a boss as a dps spec.. sorry no loot for you. At the very least, we need to see ilvl restrictions include correctly gemming and enchanting gear to get in a raid. Its LFR, there should be a higher threshold to be able to step in than merely an ilvl and a button to press.

[Kaylia]

How do you work that out for tank?

And not every death's are the player fault.

[seph32]

LFR is a great tool for gearing alts.

Any player can easily obtain 372 ilevel, but there's always players around not bother enchant or gem it or perform still horrible or die to really simple mechanics.

[Aesctaa]

So wait, you are in a guild doing heroics that refuse to do LFR in their free time? AND your raid leader is a huge moron who refuses to see the writing on the wall for an encounter that you obviously need to go back to the drawing board on?

Dunno, may be time to rethink a few things man.

Tell me about it, been through 2 guilds in 2 weeks after my last fell apart for star wars.

Latest complaint is the random drop trinkets and rings, have yet to even see one drop of any kind in 397 form.

[niwaar]

How do you work that out for tank?

And not every death's are the player fault.

Oh I completely agree, but without holding people to some kind of standard, you will see more and more lackluster groups with Arcane Mages doing 6k and Holy Priests doing 2k hps. Either there has to be a possibility of failure if people arent actually trying, ie a lot of the early heroics required all 5 members to be playing as intended, rather than the current ones, where 3 people can carry the other two rather easily. The problem is, LFR will never be tuned to such a degree so you will always get players who are afking, suiciding, and all in all just plain fucking around. Yes, you can kick these people, but more and more you are getting LFR groups who just plain don't care and don't want to rock the boat (especially on the front half which is tuned for 14 chimpanzee's to defeat.

LFR is a great tool, but until things like "effort" or at least, "pre-effort" (properly gemming and enchanting gear) is enforced the system will have a shelf life on tolerability for each raiding tier.

[aurik]

As it stands now, LFR isn't meant to be for people capable of actually raiding. It's made so that non-raiders can experience raid content without watering down the main raid content. After all, when there's only 8 raid bosses, you can't have much of a difficulty curve. Even doubling that via heroic modes, look at how firelands had a fucking cliff of difficulty between 6/7 and doing H Rag. Now, they effectively have 24 bosses for the price of 8.

It's a failure of loot design that doing LFR this tier is part of the optimal gearing path. I think they should make strata of loot in LFR closer to 372. But then I have a lot of good ideas and good logic as to why they're doing loot all wrong that they'll be happily oblivious to.

Niwaar's suggestions would help a lot, though: without some quality-control on who wins loot it's just too easy to see the good stuff going to terrible people. And there's another flaw, as well: my raid group typically runs an LFR with alts/etc and then vote-kicks as many people as possible on the token set that we're most interested in, simply to make chances better that we'll win the tokens. We're being total assholes, sure, but LFR isn't a lot of fun (especially healing, shit's terrible), we're doing LFR to gear up our 10, not the other 15.

[Plow]

I have an idea for LFR but it will never happen...

You can continue to need roll on anything, infinite amount of runs...

Until you win something. Soon as you win something, your LFR loot is locked for the week.

Make that ret pally that's last on dps and has holy offspec think twice before he rolls on 2 souldrinkers, let alone prevent him from winning them both.

Also make it so I haven't gone over a month without winning a single item, and 2 straight weeks without even seeing anything I give a shit about to roll on. (last week I literally could not roll anything on 6/8, this week there was more I could roll on, but of course it was stuff I already have 397 version of)

[Kaylia]

That's similar to what I proposed the week it came out. Give everyone a single "need+100" roll per week (or lockout). Omly wasted if you actually win the item.


They really need to fix double of the same item tho. It's retarded.

[niwaar]

As it stands now, LFR isn't meant to be for people capable of actually raiding. It's made so that non-raiders can experience raid content without watering down the main raid content. After all, when there's only 8 raid bosses, you can't have much of a difficulty curve. Even doubling that via heroic modes, look at how firelands had a fucking cliff of difficulty between 6/7 and doing H Rag. Now, they effectively have 24 bosses for the price of 8.

They do and they don't. The vast majority of people clearing looking for raid are the people who were only able to kill Shannox and maybe Rhyolith before the nerfs. You are still only getting 8 bosses, you just have 3 difficulty levels for each boss. I won't get into semantics over what I consider "content", but the sad fact is that LFR content is not actually raiding. Its more akin to hitting a button and getting a chance for decent loot. Most of the encounters on LFR have been so far toned down that they are considerably easier than any of the new 5 man content, and those are faceroll as it stands. The entire Dragon Soul patch has been basically a loot pinata as a "we are sorry, we screwed up this entire expansion." The one exception is the heroic modes. Which all seem vastly less difficult than ANY of Firelands heroics. (Not that I know because of the Holidays, we have had a single 3 hour raid night the last several weeks and have only been able to blow through 8/8 normal because of it.)

It's a failure of loot design that doing LFR this tier is part of the optimal gearing path. I think they should make strata of loot in LFR closer to 372. But then I have a lot of good ideas and good logic as to why they're doing loot all wrong that they'll be happily oblivious to.

You hit it on the head here. Yes, LFR should feel a bit "more" than doing 5 man heroics. But how much more? The old rule of thumb was that raids (of any size) were to be rewarded because it took considerable effort to put together a group of capable and geared players of different classes in order to defeat raid bosses. That rule is out the window. The new norm is "pressing a button". Even the game doesn't really care what specific people it puts together. I have seen raids with 12-13 Hunters and a total of 20 players on the same token before. The game doesn't put any effort into the group, the player puts less effort into playing while in the group than they do in a 5man instance. Why does the gear coming out of LFR need to be so much higher than what can be found in the relevant Heroics dungeons?

This tier should have introduced 3 new dungeons that were designed to be challenging for people in 353-360 ilvl. I believe the minimum ilvl to gain access to the dungeons is 352 (I could be wrong). The gear rewarded should have been 365-372. NONE of the gear from the dungeons should have been better than ANY of the gear found in the previous raid. There are precedents for this as the ICC heroic 5mans dropped the gear lvl of the 10man previous raid. Since we are now getting the same ilvl of gear regardless, it should have been a full tier lower than the previous raid.

The LFR loot should NEVER have included the same items from the Normal and Heroic raids. Most importantly, the LFR loot tables should never have included both Tier gear and the Spine/Madness weapons and other loot. Tier gear should have either gone the way of the ICC model, where everyone bought the bottom rung of the gear and then upgraded through Normal and Heroic tokens, or it should just plain have been kept for "Normal & Heroic" raiders only. By creating entirely separate, yet compelling gear at the ilvl of the previous raid (378) you would have encouraged Raiders to participate for both Valor Points and to fill in itemization holes from the previous tier. While keeping from creating the issues that arose with many bleeding edge guilds as well as issues like you spoke of with kicking people to ensure your group received the upgrade you needed.

In the end, LFR was rushed. No one took the time to stop and think through things in its entirety. No one at Blizzard had the balls to stand up in a meeting and say, "Guys, we really need to rethink these issues with LFR." Sure, they have fixed certain issues by putting class restrictions on items. They have promised to come up with a manner to stop people from winning double of the same item. They have even promised that, in MoP, the system will differentiate by both Class AND Spec rather than just role, who gets a bonus.

I simply do not believe we will ever see the "you get a bonus til you win 1 item" thing happening. Nor do I think you will ever see any system that lets you role in infinite number of raids until you win. The game is not about making loot randomly but easily available. Its not about making it randomly available if you keep running it until you win each week.

There are a lot of issues with LFR, they can not even hope to solve them all. What Blizzard needs to do now more than anything is make a decision on where LFR fits in the scheme of things? Will it continue to be easier than dungeons? Will it continue to be so easy that many players feel that it is ok to come ill-prepared (knowledge or gear, gems/enchanting). Will the reward continue to outpace the time and effort involved? If they continue down the road they have laid out for themselves, the themepark will stop being Disneyworld and become a delapidated version where only Toontown survived the Cataclysm.

[Meresgi]

I had a LFR group wipe on trash before Ultraxion the other night, that was a new low for me. The entire platform was just awash in fire.


Also, who the fuck in Blizzard designs some of the things in these encounters. Why do UH Dk pets sometimes just vanish on Madness from jumping to different platforms, like how if you jumped onto magmaw as UH, your pet despawned completely and it was NEVER fixed from what I can remember.

Also why the fuck does lightning chain to pets on Hagara. It makes doing Heroic mode a pain sometimes when you have lightning just chain to a pet, then back to a player a few times and kill the player w/o chaining onto the next player.

[Boyiee]

I've been getting a lot of LFR groups that have 5-10 guildies needing on things to pass to their mains in the run. It's getting really annoying.

[Plow]

a lot of stuff

While I'm one that would like to occasionally get some gear from it, I think you're looking at things all wrong.

The only real questionable decision in my mind is the tier pieces, but whatever, you can't buy them with valor anymore, and it's not like at 384 they're seriously wtf strong or anything. It's no more silly than BH.

The deathwing weapons have terrible proc rates on the lfr versions, the trinkets with damage procs are toned down quite a bit, etc.

Why should we really care if lfr is boring and not challenging but still randomly hands out some decent gear?

I dunno about anybody else but that moron pulling 20k on deathwing isn't about to get a raid spot over me just cuz he has souldrinker.