Texas may start teaching against Evolution in high schools...

[Stumblingdrunk]

The dude just now ran train all over their asses so hard. I love it.

Indeed
Edit: and i'm glad they're finally asking decent follow up questions from someone opposed to S&W

[quannum]

poor guy got cut off just as he was getting specific.

[Stumblingdrunk]

so is there more public testimony tomorrow?

[0ni0n]

Comon, anyone who has the slightest idea about how scientific theories work know that no theory is perfect, static perpetually. Hell, even laws could be overturned in another space dimension outside our realm. Evolution is no exception. We all know where this is going, they want to get creationism into high school curriculum by championing it as a "supplementary theory" due to evolution's "known weakness".

[Stumblingdrunk]

Comon, anyone who has the slightest idea about how scientific theories work know that no theory is perfect, static perpetually. Hell, even laws could be overturned in another space dimension outside our realm. Evolution is no exception. We all know where this is going, they want to get creationism into high school curriculum by championing it as a "supplementary theory" due to evolution's "known weakness".

Well of course we understand the agenda, that is however not the specific argument presented today

[Tristam]

Comon, anyone who has the slightest idea about how scientific theories work know that no theory is perfect, static perpetually. Hell, even laws could be overturned in another space dimension outside our realm. Evolution is no exception. We all know where this is going, they want to get creationism into high school curriculum by championing it as a "supplementary theory" due to evolution's "known weakness".

This is 100% right, I would add the thing about evolution is it would take an enormous and remarkable set of occurrences for it to be overturned, which would consequently require us to reevaluate all of biology. This is why it's a perfect thing for children's textbooks. I will agree that evolutionary theory is modified to fit new evidence, a hallmark of all scientific theories, which I think is the fundamental reason that the evidence based wording is much more meaningful and appropriate than "strengths and weaknesses". Either way, giving students a broad overview of the topics in evolution that are as certainly true as anything else we know about life is completely necessary to prepare them to compete in sciences as an undergraduate.

Another problem with the strengths and weaknesses argument is that it implys that there are weaknesses for all theories which must be taught (open door for whatever you want to teach). But theories do not have strengths and weaknesses, there is only evidence. If there are competing theories, scientists will attempt to explain the evidence in favor of their theory, and sometimes when there isn't enough evidence both theories compete. But in the end enough evidence is available that supports only one theory best, and the most likely theory must still explain/incorporate all lines of evidence. Evolution does this fantastically well. To try and teach things as either strengths or weaknesses suggests confusion where there could be none. Are there weaknesses to the germ theory of disease? Are there weaknesses to the sliding filament theory of muscle contraction? If students doubt evolution going into college as a science major, they're miles behind their peers and face poor postgraduate prospects in the biomedical sciences.



Looks like there will be more testimony tomorrow, I'm deeply concerned by some of the board member comments (or should I say posturing for fox news).

[Eratosthenes]

Science wins!

[Zhais]

All hope is not lost

[Eratosthenes]

Well, there is one more day of this.

The point that really needs to be made is that although no scientific theory is truly complete, the incomplete parts which are still being debated/researched are college-level material. That goes for everything, not just biology. High schoolers learn the basic stuff the experts have already figured out.

[Dimmauk]

10:09 - Board member Ken Mercer of San Antonio moves to add “strengths and weaknesses” back into the science standards.

10:12 - Mercer: This about allowing students to discuss and question strengths and weaknesses of all scientific theories. He claims receiving 15,0000-16,000 e-mails on this from around the state.

10:15 - Mercer goes down the “microevolution” vs. “macroevolution” path again. And he brings up “Piltdown man” and a list of other “weaknesses” he claims plague evolutionary theory.

/facepalm.


11:12 - Mr. Craig’s motion fails 6-8. We’re back to Mr. Mercer’s original amendment adding back “strengths and weaknesses.”

11:13 - Mr. Mercer’s motion fails 7-7!!!

11;15 - This is huge victory for sound science education in Texas. Moreover, the creationists’ opposition to Mr. Craig’s motion exposed their hypocrisy about wanting to ensure that students can ask questions about science.


Awesome! Thank um....god?

[Stiker]

Glad my state didn't completely let me down here.

[Neosutra]

So half the board members are morons?

[Dimmauk]

So half the board members are morons?

Yes. Cause half the state is fucking stupid.

[Syntex]

I would just like to point out that there are a lot of flaws with the evolution theory hence why its still a theory and over the years a lot of things that were made up to support evolution because it gave those people funding because they found something.

From what I have heard those moths that evolved to match the color of the trees from white to black that survived was a crock, supposedly they glued dead moths on the trees because they couldn't find where the moths hid during the day and that same picture and story it taught in todays classrooms as fact when it has been disproved.

There are a ton of things wrong with evolution that have been proven to just be false over the years but remained in the textbooks still being taught as though it was fact, and after you sift through all the bullshit the Evolution theory has so many holes you wonder why its even a theory, which begs the question, if we didn't somehow evolve then how did we get here?

Also I am just getting off work so I'll see if I can cite a source later on that moth thing.

[Eratosthenes]

I would just like to point out that there are a lot of flaws with the evolution theory hence why its still a theory and over the years a lot of things that were made up to support evolution because it gave those people funding because they found something.

From what I have heard those moths that evolved to match the color of the trees from white to black that survived was a crock, supposedly they glued dead moths on the trees because they couldn't find where the moths hid during the day and that same picture and story it taught in todays classrooms as fact when it has been disproved.

There are a ton of things wrong with evolution that have been proven to just be false over the years but remained in the textbooks still being taught as though it was fact, and after you sift through all the bullshit the Evolution theory has so many holes you wonder why its even a theory, which begs the question, if we didn't somehow evolve then how did we get here?

Also I am just getting off work so I'll see if I can cite a source later on that moth thing.

Uh, no.

Anything you'll likely come up with, including the moth claim, has already been addressed here: An Index to Creationist Claims

Your own ignorance is not evidence against evolution. To all people who try arguing about holes, weaknesses, made-up facts and such: get specific or shut the fuck up.

[Nystul]

I would just like to point out that there are a lot of flaws with the evolution theory hence why its still a theory and over the years a lot of things that were made up to support evolution because it gave those people funding because they found something.

From what I have heard those moths that evolved to match the color of the trees from white to black that survived was a crock, supposedly they glued dead moths on the trees because they couldn't find where the moths hid during the day and that same picture and story it taught in todays classrooms as fact when it has been disproved.

There are a ton of things wrong with evolution that have been proven to just be false over the years but remained in the textbooks still being taught as though it was fact, and after you sift through all the bullshit the Evolution theory has so many holes you wonder why its even a theory, which begs the question, if we didn't somehow evolve then how did we get here?

Also I am just getting off work so I'll see if I can cite a source later on that moth thing.

How about you cite a source for...any of those things. Not a website crackpot source. I mean an actual official document, some kind of scientific study for...any of those things you mentioned.

Like one of the many things proven to be wrong with evolution over the years that remains in books.

You know absolutely nothing of what you're talking about. You couldn't explain evolutionary theory to a satisfactory level, so there's no fucking way you could talk about holes.

For fucks sake you don't even know what theory means in the context of science. Sure, in every day language it means "oh just some shit I thought up." But in the context of science it is a MUCH more significant statement. US National Academy of Science:

"Some scientific explanations are so well established that no new evidence is likely to alter them. The explanation becomes a scientific theory. In everyday language a theory means a hunch or speculation. Not so in science. In science, the word theory refers to a comprehensive explanation of an important feature of nature supported by facts gathered over time."

The only holes here are within your knowledge of what is going on.

[madpersian]

As the article notes though, if this is passed in Texas, textbook manufacturers will start adding it into all of their books - it's too costly to make two sets of books, especially considering the buying power of the Texas school board.

So, this isn't just "GG Texas" this is "GG America".

There is no reason to believe that if the idiots win other states would have to follow. At most it'll embolden other idiot states school boards to act but those of us in sane states will be fine. This article makes that claim with no proof or reference to make it more interesting. Other states have their own non crazy guidelines thatll prevent them from buying a textbook that adds nonsensical arguements against a well established theory.

[Tristam]

I would just like to point out that there are a lot of flaws with the evolution theory hence why its still a theory and over the years a lot of things that were made up to support evolution because it gave those people funding because they found something.

From what I have heard those moths that evolved to match the color of the trees from white to black that survived was a crock, supposedly they glued dead moths on the trees because they couldn't find where the moths hid during the day and that same picture and story it taught in todays classrooms as fact when it has been disproved.

There are a ton of things wrong with evolution that have been proven to just be false over the years but remained in the textbooks still being taught as though it was fact, and after you sift through all the bullshit the Evolution theory has so many holes you wonder why its even a theory, which begs the question, if we didn't somehow evolve then how did we get here?

Also I am just getting off work so I'll see if I can cite a source later on that moth thing.

wow, you'd think we didn't have more evidence than moths changing color....

Oh wait, we do. Tons more. From lots and lots of different species. And even some new ones that didn't exist a hundred years ago or so.

Waiting anxiously on your "holes" and "flaws"

edit: lol @ making up support for evolution to get funding, the key to getting funding is discovering something *NEW*. Not something we've known for decades.

[Talka]

Half of them voted in favor?

6 out of 14 believed the "weaknesses" of evolution?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_TiZg3or-EU...20/screwed.jpg

Anyone else worried that this stuff is eventually gonna pass?

[0ni0n]

Anyone else worried that this stuff is eventually gonna pass?

If it were passed it would play out the same way like a similar case did in Dover, PA, where the local school board actually endorsed creationism. Some parents sued and had the bill/legislation struck down by the courts after it was deemed unconstitutional. So in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really matter how the board voted than say it's a mere reflection of the retardation of the local population.