Texas may start teaching against Evolution in high schools...

[BerenTebogo]

To stay on topic a bit and move away from Harry Potter I'd just like to say this. Faith is fine. It is beyond me why it is necessary and why people can't just live their lives on their own two legs but then again I've been straightedge my entire life and I also can't understand why people need to use alcohol to cope with stress. Both boggle my mind.

Teaching Creationism though, and referencing it specifically from Biblical teachings is where I draw the line. Within the first 2 fucking pages of the Bible we learn of the creation stories. God made Adam and crafted Eve out of one of Adam's ribs. Eve then bore Adam 3 children. Cain Able and Seth (correct me if I'm wrong on the names I'm in a rush.)

This leaves 5 people. Adam, Eve, and 3 sons that founded the entire human race. If you are to teach Biblical creation or even intelligent design based on the creation stories that means it's time to break out the "Incest and you" handbook. Somebody fucked their mother.

It's within the first few fucking pages people, fucking christ.

[pohibaba]

I'm an atheist and a "believer" in evolution as much as anyone, but I still get embarrassed by the kind of fundamentalist atheists I see running around here.

[Hellfury]

I have to admit, I don't really get the problem.
The theory of evolution as presented by Darwin is a scientific theory, which laid the base for the work leading up to the current "upgraded" theories of evolution with more knowledge about genetics and whatnot. It is the predominant scientific theory, as opposed to a religious belief.
Regardless of wether you believe in a God or not, it does not invalidate the theory of evolution, if anything, it's pretty arrogant to assume to know the will of your hypothetical god so well that you can discard that evolution the way the scientific theory presents it is what he/she/it/they planned all along.

Maybe God (doesn't like micromanaging and) figured evolution was a good idea? A certain degree of self-regulation is usually not a bad thing, unless you're one of those people who think that your God didn't give you free will.
(someone on these forums made a point about good things usually being attributed to God and bad things being attributed to humanity, I can't remember who, but I thought it was well said.)

On the whole constitution thing, doesn't an article of the US Constitution specifically say something about keeping religion away from being an issue regarding taking any kind of official office/trust? I haven't read that thing since High School and that's a few years ago. And the first amendment not only protects freedom of speech, but also has several parts about religion, not to give preference to any one religion under any circumstances, not to support any religion for non-secular purposes and forbidding the establishment of any state religion or something like that?

[Zosi]

Saying "Darwin's theories are full of holes, therefore we should teach Creationism as an alternative" is like saying "Newton's explanation of gravity was full of holes, so we should teach the alternative view that things fall towards the Earth because God pushes them". Scientific theories are continuously evolving, and there have been more than a hundred years of progress (and better theories) since Darwin published. The basic concepts haven't changed, which is why it's useful to teach "general evolution" as Darwin described it to students the same way Newtonian physics are taught in physics class even though they aren't the cutting edge of physics theories.

If you'd like to cover the Biblical creation story in school, maybe you should petition your high school to offer a course on mythology and primitive religion rather than trying to sabotage biology classes to further your agenda. It's really a fascinating subject, and having it available at the high school level would be a real eye-opener for kids. Unfortunately, probably not in the way that the fundies want...

[Talka]

It's important to remember that evolution is a changing theory. As new discoveries are made, the theory is modified. And it's not a theory that spans one science. Sure, biology. But there's microbiology, molecular biology, and macrobiology (to name a few) that are involved in understanding evolution as a whole.

Evolution should, therefore, not be taught as Darwin's ideas, but it should be taught as an exercise in critical thinking.
Bring up examples of how the theory has changed over the years, and ask kids to make changes to a theory based on new evidence.

If you want to teach creationism, it can be mentioned in 15 minutes in one day.

Exercises in scientific critical thinking could easily take up a month.

[Iced]

They should teach what really happened, Aliens mixed their DNA with apes as an experiment, and made Humans. This is why there is no missing link. I bet the Aliens were glad God made apes on Earth for them.

But while the Aliens were buttfucking the apes to create Humans, they developed AIDS which eradicated them therefor leaving no signs of their existence so its impossible to teach about something you can't prove ever happened.

Oh shit, I forgot, they want to teach about a figment of peoples imagination pointing a finger and saying let there be light.

[ZarakiKujata]

Teaching the controversy or whatever is such bullshit, evolution has occurred right before our very eyes within microscopic organisms within our lifetime, not to mention the famous case of moths in the English industrial town changing from white moths being the dominant mutation to natural selection making the more advantageous black moths the dominant mutation over the course of the 19th century. Just because a large percentage of the population is ignorant to the facts and only listens to people who perpetuate the notion that there is controversy when there isn't doesn't mean it should be taught.

[Yeager]

Teaching the controversy or whatever is such bullshit, evolution has occurred right before our very eyes within microscopic organisms within our lifetime, not to mention the famous case of moths in the English industrial town changing from white moths being the dominant mutation to natural selection making the more advantageous black moths the dominant mutation over the course of the 19th century. Just because a large percentage of the population is ignorant to the facts and only listens to people who perpetuate the notion that there is controversy when there isn't doesn't mean it should be taught.

This!


BTW, your avatar pwns

[0ni0n]

fundamentalist atheists

You keep using that term, i dont' think it means what you think it means.

[Zosi]

To demolish the moronically stupid entropy argument... the fact that there are pockets of less entropy than average in the universe doesn't break the second law of thermodynamics. The only reason life is possible on Earth is because of the heat and light of the Sun, should it ever cease to provide said energy, Earth would enter into a nice entropic spiral and our little pocket of order in the sea of chaos would cease to exist. In other words, the entropy in the universe is not decreasing simply because there's isolated areas of temporary order.

[Tristam]

On the whole constitution thing, doesn't an article of the US Constitution specifically say something about keeping religion away from being an issue regarding taking any kind of official office/trust? I haven't read that thing since High School and that's a few years ago. And the first amendment not only protects freedom of speech, but also has several parts about religion, not to give preference to any one religion under any circumstances, not to support any religion for non-secular purposes and forbidding the establishment of any state religion or something like that?

There's something that states something to the tune of congress shall make no law establishing a state religion. It's been interpreted by the courts at multiple levels (including the US Supreme) numerous times to state that public schools (being taxpayer funded) may not endorse a specific religion. In Pennsylvania, a local school board bankrupted itself by trying to teach intelligent design, which the abundant evidence showed was clearly christianity-based creationism and therefore an endorsement of religion, and that was the grounds on which the school's attempt was declared unconstitutional. A G.W. bush appointed judge even made the ruling.

It's really really poor judgment of the Texas state BoE to attempt this, it will simply end up costing taxpayers (and more likely, the public school system) a lot of money which will go to waste. If this hits the supreme court I expect it to get squashed pretty hard. There's a lesson to be learned here about being more interested/involved in local politics, if just to make sure that the loonies don't eventually get their hands on a state board of education.

[pohibaba]

You keep using that term, i dont' think it means what you think it means.

Two points:

1) That's the first time I've ever used that phrase.

2) Words don't have to be used literally for them to convey a meaning.

[Dimmauk]

Next they will want Teachers to teach students that Dinosuars were put in the ground by the Devil to cause confusion and make people question the bible since there is no mention of Dinosaurs in the bible.

[Hellfury]

Two points:

1) That's the first time I've ever used that phrase.

2) Words don't have to be used literally for them to convey a meaning.

I'm not sure what he meant, but how I read it, he meant Fundamentalist Atheists in the sense that they have a strict adherence to their basic set of beliefs, which, to my knowledge, is proper use. Just like fundamentalist christian/muslim/buddhist and so on, Atheism is a belief.

[pohibaba]

I'm not sure what he meant, but how I read it, he meant Fundamentalist Atheists in the sense that they have a strict adherence to their basic set of beliefs, which, to my knowledge, is proper use. Just like fundamentalist christian/muslim/buddhist and so on, Atheism is a belief.

I think you quoted the wrong person.

[Akucaen]

And this is why Texas is officially the shittiest state in America. Fuck that redneck piece of shit state. Fuck you super Texas fanati-fags that think your state is anything more than an inbreed waste of resources and land that gave america nothing but Waco massacre and the Bush administration.

But seriously, lolTexas.

Incoming shit storm of Texans.

Actually, no. I agree with you. Fuck this state.

[Hellfury]

I think you quoted the wrong person.

yeahhhh ><

[Tristam]

Next they will want Teachers to teach students that Dinosuars were put in the ground by the Devil to cause confusion and make people question the bible since there is no mention of Dinosaurs in the bible.

Close, but the popular creationist thinking these days is that there's one interpretation of the bible that uses something akin to the word "behemoth". They think this means that humans and dinosaurs walked around together all happy-like. And yes, t-rex was vegan.

In short, the flintstones was a documentary.

I wish I were joking
Creation Museum - Creation, Evolution, Science, Dinosaurs, Family, Christian Worldview - Creation Museum

[Correction]

Never understood the obsession Americans have against evolution, which is never an issue in most of other developed countries. I mean you can look it up online in 5minutes and understand the framework of the theory and make sense of how lives evolved since the primordial times.

Witness our perpetual resistance to the metric system. Yeah we love being backwards.

[Dimmauk]

Actually, no. I agree with you. Fuck this state.

You should move out of that dumb fuck city you live in. DFW sucks. South Texas isnt bad. Hope you like Mexicans.