Texas may start teaching against Evolution in high schools...

[Devek]

I agree though, teaching creationism isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Only if we can teach them rastafarian beliefs too.

[Seraph]

Only if we can teach them rastafarian beliefs too.

In a religious history class, you can teach about whatever religions you want. Definitely a "This is what they believe" as opposed to "This is what you should believe" sort of concept.

[Devek]

If public schools did have a class dedicated to teaching different religious beliefs around the world, the christians and muslims would flip out about it. Only one way can be the right way lol. Jews would probably be the only people cool about it.

[Dimmauk]

Man, now that I got my degree, I am doing everything I can to get out of this state >.> Fucking hate texas...more than half the people here amaze me everyday, especially at work (Time Warner Cable)

I digress, all in all, fail move by texas. We are all ashamed

TWC sucks frozen donkey dicks. Their service sucks, my digital phone line is the worst, and I lose my internet connection at least once a week.

[Meian]

To stay on topic a bit and move away from Harry Potter I'd just like to say this. Faith is fine. It is beyond me why it is necessary and why people can't just live their lives on their own two legs but then again I've been straightedge my entire life and I also can't understand why people need to use alcohol to cope with stress. Both boggle my mind.

Teaching Creationism though, and referencing it specifically from Biblical teachings is where I draw the line. Within the first 2 fucking pages of the Bible we learn of the creation stories. God made Adam and crafted Eve out of one of Adam's ribs. Eve then bore Adam 3 children. Cain Able and Seth (correct me if I'm wrong on the names I'm in a rush.)

This leaves 5 people. Adam, Eve, and 3 sons that founded the entire human race. If you are to teach Biblical creation or even intelligent design based on the creation stories that means it's time to break out the "Incest and you" handbook. Somebody fucked their mother.

It's within the first few fucking pages people, fucking christ.

eh

Genesis 4 and 5 give the story of Adam and Eve's family after they leave the garden: they have three children, Cain, Abel and Seth, as well as other sons and daughters, and Adam's lifespan is 930 years

[thatwasnifty]

In slightly related news, the Oklahoma state legislature is investigating Richard Dawkins' recent speech at the University of Oklahoma:

Oklahoma State Representative Rebecca Hamilton requested substantial information relating to the speech from Vice President for Governmental Relations Danny Hilliard. Representative Hamilton's exhaustive request included demands for all e-mails and correspondence relating to the speech; a list of all money paid to Dawkins and the entities, public or private, responsible for this funding; and the total cost to the university, including, among other things, security fees, advertising, and even "faculty time spent promoting this event."

[Yeargdribble]

The creationist think tank has obviously done a great job. They found a way that sounds amicable to the uniformed as is evidenced by some of the fence-sitters in this thread. "Teach the controversy" is their ace-in-the-hole. On the surface it seems reasonable that all sides should be equally represented.

The problem is, there's no evidence for creationism while there is evidence for evolution. Even if you can't fill in every gap of evolution, you can't fill in ANY information about creationism that isn't part of a religious doctrine. When you start talking about a creator, sure you could say that maybe we were transpermiated by some alien life form and that was our creator, but that's not what creationists are after. They are after us naming it Yahweh.


Science is based on observable phenomena and things we can actually look at. You can look at a fossil. You can look at geological strata. You can't look at the way God made the planet. There's no evidence. Once you allow in one creation myth and falsely call it "science" then you can start introducing anything you damn-well please and it would have to include all creation myths.

P.S. I'm sadly from Texas and want the hell out ASAP. I nearly flunked many of my science classes in HS because the teachers was so strongly religious and wouldn't accept any research I did on my own. If she said 2+2=5, I'd better put 5 on my test or I got it wrong regardless of any amount of evidence to the contrary.

[thatwasnifty]

If public schools did have a class dedicated to teaching different religious beliefs around the world, the christians and muslims would flip out about it. Only one way can be the right way lol. Jews would probably be the only people cool about it.

I went to a Jewish private school for grades 1-12, and we spent a lot of time in high school studying the histories and beliefs of Christianity and Islam. Although it was more of a "know thine enemies" sort of deal.

[nakedsnake09]

If public schools did have a class dedicated to teaching different religious beliefs around the world, the christians and muslims would flip out about it. Only one way can be the right way lol. Jews would probably be the only people cool about it.

We've got something quite similar to this in our school. I don't see a holy war going down in the history hallway.

either way, lolTexas. To the guy who said he hates the weather here; this is true. what the fuck 90 one day, 50 the next, and 85 the day after?

[Jaybar]

I went to a Jewish private school for grades 1-12, and we spent a lot of time in high school studying the histories and beliefs of Christianity and Islam. Although it was more of a "know thine enemies" sort of deal.

More like "We worship the same god, but we are more right in our beliefs than them."

[Hellfury]

It's this 'maybe god this, maybe god that' rubbish that needs to be kept out of a science curriculum. I'm pretty sure that when I learned evolution there were plenty of discussions about how the fossil record and Darwin's theories were challenged and adapted over time to reach a more reasonable picture of the story behind the diversity of species. There was never a 'maybe this, maybe that' without thorough scientific study and critical analysis to back up the challenges. That's what science is. Putting God into the equation, which every state law challenging evolution has done is garbage, pure and through.

The attitude that evolution is pushed down students' throats as unquestionable law is a fantasy cooked up by paranoid Christians and nothing more. This was never the case in any school I attended but hey maybe I got lucky by not growing up in lolTexas, taught by teachers who were actually competent.

Incase I was unclear, I am very much opposed to creationism, intelligent design, organized religion (and religion in general for that matter, but people are entitled to believe whatever they want to, even if I disagree, as long as they keep it to themselves).
What I was trying to get across was that I don't get the problem the religious people have with theory of evolution, they can explain it to themselves anyway they like, blame it on their theoretical God or whatever, as long as they accept and operate with it as a valid theory and base.

It's not a belief but the lack of, there's no doctrine to adhere to. That's why I am saying the term doesn't make sense.

I'm a little ambivalent about this point. I am inclined to agree with you to a certain extent, it can be argued that it is a philosophical position, but on the other hand, atheists do believe that there is no God. It becomes semantics, and I will cede the point.
I rather consider myself as a strong agnosticist and will leave it at "fuck if I know."

[Tetrarien]

eh

Genesis 4 and 5 give the story of Adam and Eve's family after they leave the garden: they have three children, Cain, Abel and Seth, as well as other sons and daughters, and Adam's lifespan is 930 years

Either way, there'd still be incest involved.

[Yeargdribble]

I also would love a religious studies class. If anything, the immense diversity of religion as well as the hatred preached in their holy books are some of the best evidence that religion is outdated and unneeded. Regardless the Bible is an extremely important book from a literary standpoint. Trying to read poetry or a huge amount of literature without a basic understanding of Biblical stories is like trying to understand pop culture having never seen any Star Wars, Star Trek, Terminator, etc. movies.

But seriously, people need to understand religion. As an atheist I'm also tired other atheists who are just belligerent and want to be atheist because it's so counter-culture. They think it's unimportant to understand religion because to them it's irrelevant. But when they make arguments they look just as silly as the creationists who deny evolution but refuse to try to learn about it and use arguments like "then why are there still monkeys" and "why (something about abiogensis/cosmology)?"

However, I think a religious studies class that wasn't mindlessly biased to one of the monotheistic religions would be the worst fear of the religious. To actually have kids study about their religion and other religions as well would undermine so much of the indoctrination.


Oh yeah, and I'll add a third to the fuck the weather in Texas club.

[Nystul]

Don't patronize me. To simply accept the idea of how our organic structures came about eschews all accepted laws of physics and entropy. So either we've always existed (albeit as single-cell organisms), or something started the process. I'm willing to accept it if it was just a huge accident, it's not impossible; just improbable.

Hi. I have a BS in biology and a MS in developmental and evolutionary biology. I wrote my thesis and did research on a microevolutionary change in pigmentation of cave organisms and how it created a selective benefit.

As someone who has taken numerous courses on evolution, genetics, population genetics, etc I can simply, confidently, and without any sense of trepidation say the following...

HA!

Ahem. You know, I do love it when people dust off the old classics when they try to shoot holes in evolutionary theory. It always ends up showing everyone around them that they haven't done their homework.

The "gaps in the fossil record" shows that the arguer does not actually understand speciation concepts as they are put forth under current evolutionary theory.

The "darwin made errors" argument simply shows that the person is ignoring hundreds of years of research since his publication and perhaps assumes that science, like religion, is an archaic dogma that is against change. Rather, science embraces new theories and corrections and well, it becomes clear that the person using this argument is not even aware of how the scientific method is intended to be put into use.

And one of my favorites, the "entropy does not allow it! Evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics!" simply shows that the arguer is incapable of reading and comprehending a simple single sentence stating the law itself and grasps only half of the law and is able to wield it, though terribly inappropriately. Sort of like watching a monkey trying to use a hammer to pound in a screw.



That being said, Evolution is, unarguably, a scientific theory and not a religious one. It is therefore taught in science class. We do not teach about politics in spanish class. We do not teach mathematics in art class. We do not teach US History in Chemistry class. And we do not put forth religious doctrine in science class. It really is that simple.

[Dimmauk]

We've got something quite similar to this in our school. I don't see a holy war going down in the history hallway.

either way, lolTexas. To the guy who said he hates the weather here; this is true. what the fuck 90 one day, 50 the next, and 85 the day after?

You know what they say here in Texas, "If you don't like the weather, wait"

Texas isn't bad by default, cause I'm know there are way worse states to live in. Fuck the cold weather. I don't care how wicked awesome you think your town is, FUCK THE COLD.

[Dimmauk]

Hi. I have a BS in biology and a MS in developmental and evolutionary biology. I wrote my thesis and did research on a microevolutionary change in pigmentation of cave organisms and how it created a selective benefit.

As someone who has taken numerous courses on evolution, genetics, population genetics, etc I can simply, confidently, and without any sense of trepidation say the following...

HA!

Ahem. You know, I do love it when people dust off the old classics when they try to shoot holes in evolutionary theory. It always ends up showing everyone around them that they haven't done their homework.

The "gaps in the fossil record" shows that the arguer does not actually understand speciation concepts as they are put forth under current evolutionary theory.

The "darwin made errors" argument simply shows that the person is ignoring hundreds of years of research since his publication and perhaps assumes that science, like religion, is an archaic dogma that is against change. Rather, science embraces new theories and corrections and well, it becomes clear that the person using this argument is not even aware of how the scientific method is intended to be put into use.

And one of my favorites, the "entropy does not allow it! Evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics!" simply shows that the arguer is incapable of reading and comprehending a simple single sentence stating the law itself and grasps only half of the law and is able to wield it, though terribly inappropriately. Sort of like watching a monkey trying to use a hammer to pound in a screw.

They cant help but look to the past as were the proof is. Look at what they are following. When you show that new evidence as been proven, they ask "How do you know god didnt put that there" There is no winning against them, so you can only prevent them from spreading the stupidity.

[Plow]

They cant help but look to the past as were the proof is. Look at what they are following. When you show that new evidence as been proven, they ask "How do you know god didnt put that there" There is no winning against them, so you can only prevent them from spreading the stupidity.

On the other hand you have the anti-religion people (NOT all people that subscribe to evolution) claiming that the reason it's a theory, and not a law, is because theories are better than laws.

[thatwasnifty]

Either way, there'd still be incest involved.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/g...77d55cc875.jpg

From the Creation Museum in Kentucky.

[Yeargdribble]

Fuck the cold weather. I don't care how wicked awesome you think your town is, FUCK THE COLD.

Pfft... Eff that noise. I'd rather be in the cold than this humid pot of crap that can change 40-50 degrees on a whim. When it's cold you can always put more clothes on. When it's hot you can only take so many off... legally. Besides, when it comes to dressing professionally there really is no alternative to long pants, long-sleeve button down shirt, tie, and maybe a coat on top of it. To hell with 100 degrees, that's the way you have to dress. To hell with that.

[Mizango]

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/g...77d55cc875.jpg

From the Creation Museum in Kentucky.

I've actually seen that lol. Many lulz were had.