Mirke walde-CORS

[Carrilei]

A group of people using invalid justification for an option doesn't devalue the option itself. It simply means that justification can't be used. This is how logic works.

You claim to know the worth of the QD augment, but if you honestly did realize how much of an impact it really makes, you wouldn't argue for a WS piece that gives a marginal benefit - unless, again, you have 75RNG or don't really have/use a QD build.

My issue is that people seem to not be taking into account how significant the rate of QD vs the rate of WS discrepancy should be if you play the job right. You should, throughout the entirety of "endgame," be weaponskilling more than using damage Quick Draws. Does this not cloud the picture at all? I think it does.

I don't mean to "argue" for the Raac and/or Raat augments - if the prevailing sentiment here was instead that it's WS or bust, I'd be trying to show the QD value even moreso.

[Kilhart]

My issue is that people seem to not be taking into account how significant the rate of QD vs the rate of WS discrepancy should be if you play the job right. You should, throughout the entirety of "endgame," be weaponskilling more than using damage Quick Draws. Does this not cloud the picture at all? I think it does.

I don't mean to "argue" for the Raac and/or Raat augments - if the prevailing sentiment here was instead that it's WS or bust, I'd be trying to show the QD value even moreso.

Like I said, even if your personal COR responsibilities call for TP and WS 95% of the time and QD build 5% of the time, I would most certainly argue that choosing a QD augmented piece would STILL benefit you more overall. If I were less lazy, I would go out and do all the math for you, calculating various conditions of buffs/food/gear on WS damage and figuring the exact % increase in damage you'd see from choosing the racc/ratk augments in various situations, but I can guarantee you that the percent increases from choosing the QD augments are not simply greater, but several times greater. This, in conjunction with the much-needed bonus to light/dark shot in various situations, makes the QD delay augment incredibly hard to pass up for most COR mains in their right mind.

[Vedder]

My issue is that people seem to not be taking into account how significant the rate of QD vs the rate of WS discrepancy should be if you play the job right. You should, throughout the entirety of "endgame," be weaponskilling more than using damage Quick Draws. Does this not cloud the picture at all? I think it does.

I don't mean to "argue" for the Raac and/or Raat augments - if the prevailing sentiment here was instead that it's WS or bust, I'd be trying to show the QD value even moreso.

Ah... I see the disconnect here now. You probably make sense to all the other CORs who play the way you do. A little tip though... just because it's your preference doesn't make it the right way.

[Callisto]

I don't disagree that you should discount the WS piece, I personally don't do anything where my WS acc and numbers are both fine, anything difficult enough where my acc wouldn't be near cap I'd be on RDM or PLD so the QD setup still looks shinier to me were I not to go the PLD body route.

[Kilhart]

For the record, I acknowledge that taking the racc/ratk augments would grant a very sexy bonus to WS for any COR. But again, there's sexy, and then there's godly. There isn't much comparison. It's basically haste for QD, and likewise, it has increasing returns. 5 seconds off of a fully merited QD is just wtf (still wtf for a 60 second QD, too, but not as much).

[Carrilei]

Yes, but theoretically if the QD damage % increase was three times as great as the WS one, but you WS three times as often as you let off a damage QD.. That's a stale mate in overall damage contributed.

Honestly, as you point out Kilhart, I may opt for the QD side because I'd prefer 45 second Quick Draws over 50 sec ones when it comes to Light & Dark Shot. But the WS augment has more legitimacy than is given here, especially if you're not one to do Tiamat/Bahav2/Ouryu/etc, where the QD damage is really flowing.

[Shinryuu]

but you WS three times as often as you let off a damage QD.

COR can't equip kraken club.

[Kilhart]

Yes, but theoretically if the QD damage % increase was three times as great as the WS one, but you WS three times as often as you let off a damage QD.. That's a stale mate in overall damage contributed.

I'm fairly sure the average increase in overall damage with a WS augmented body over Skadi wouldn't be even close to 4%, but if it were, there's still the Light/Dark shot to take into account (obviously not quantifiable in terms of damage).

Honestly, as you point out Kilhart, I may opt for the QD side because I'd prefer 45 second Quick Draws over 50 sec ones when it comes to Light & Dark Shot. But the WS augment has more legitimacy than is given here, especially if you're not one to do Tiamat/Bahav2/Ouryu/etc, where the QD damage is really flowing.

Well... there's also KB, Fafnir/Nidhogg, solo ZNMs/JoFort/sky NMs, ix'DRK kiting, and various other NMs in sky/sea/wherever where you'd be QDing over WSing. Obviously the WS build is an option, but the majority of CORs are most likely better off with the QD augments.

[Biddinger]

Well... there's also KB, Fafnir/Nidhogg, solo ZNMs/JoFort/sky NMs, ix'DRK kiting, and various other NMs in sky/sea/wherever where you'd be QDing over WSing. Obviously the WS build is an option, but the majority of CORs are most likely better off with the QD augments.

I definetely still WS on most all those things you just listed. I don't see why other CORs decide not to do the same.

[Shinryuu]

Kilhart do you use cuisses/denali feet (other feet?) or denali/hermes for kitesoloing? Or do you swap in/out during QD?

[Kilhart]

I definetely still WS on most all those things you just listed. I don't see why other CORs decide not to do the same.

Err... basically half of what I listed is solo kiting, so by default that's impossible. <_<

Kilhart do you use cuisses/denali feet (other feet?) or denali/hermes for kitesoloing? Or do you swap in/out during QD?

Denali/hermes. I'm OCD and don't like to lose even a second of that +12%.

[Biddinger]

Err... basically half of what I listed is solo kiting, so by default that's impossible. <_<

nit pick...KB, faf, and nid

[Kerberoz]

Well... there's also KB, Fafnir/Nidhogg, solo ZNMs/JoFort/sky NMs, ix'DRK kiting, and various other NMs in sky/sea/wherever where you'd be QDing over WSing. Obviously the WS build is an option, but the majority of CORs are most likely better off with the QD augments.

Why wouldn't you ws on kb/faf/nid? Kb is weak at fuck and you can open light on fafhogg. Of course solo you wouldn't ws.

I still think setting up the armor for QD is more beneficial than WS, but don't downplay the significance of WS's.

Putting up a decent WS is one thing but you really think that equates to you doing significant damage over time? The best use I've ever seen for a Cor's TP is with the /Dnc in merits.

Ugh... better than /whm and /nin at least, but you should only ever need to /dnc if the party setup is sub-par or your healer sucks.

Cor can't do significant damage over time? Wut? parse from mamool SP:

[Carrilei]

Alright, Kerb finally rockin' the /War =p

[Kilhart]

Why wouldn't you ws on kb/faf/nid? Kb is weak at fuck and you can open light on fafhogg. Of course solo you wouldn't ws.

I never said KB was too strong/evasive/whatever to WS. How many times are you going to be able to TP and WS KB before it dies? And I'm not quite sure I've seen a COR been necessary to open any SC on a HNM in my time on Valefor or Hades, but it could just be my experience.

I still think setting up the armor for QD is more beneficial than WS, but don't downplay the significance of WS's.

I'm not downplaying the significance of WSes by any means; back when I was more active in the game, I used to TP and WS on plenty of things in the game like most CORs, and I spent a ridiculous amount of time just figuring out what I needed for my WS builds. But we're getting far from the point. Obviously, depending on what events you do endgame, your frequency of WS and your frequency of QD will differ, but my point is (again), I don't see a reason to take the WS benefits over the QD benefits unless your QD build basically collects dust in your MH or you don't have one - or if you have 75RNG.

[Shinryuu]

How long does it take to get 100 TP while shooting? Shooting + melee? Pure melee? It sounds like bullshit to me that he's going to WS 3 times more often than he's going to QD.

Food for thought if you do shoot for TP: Snapshot, and if it's going to save you a hit to 100 TP, Store TP. You can calculate the % increase in WS damage with an optimally augmented WS body going from Skadi. You can easily tell the increase with a Snapshot + 10 RACC body: (more than) 5%.

[Kilhart]

I'm assuming he meant he'll be using TP/WS builds 3 times more often than a QD build in his example.

[Shinryuu]

TP build sure, WS build is only for WS so it's still tricky unless he doesn't have room to carry TP, WS and QD sets (in which case you'd still carry elementary QD stuff like staves and the QD body to do damaging QDs).

[Carrilei]

It's of course dependant on events chosen and playstyle.. I could absolutely see someone weaponskilling twice as often as using damage Quick Draws; possibly 3x. Do note I said damage QDs - there are times where you'll want to use Light/Dark Shot, or at least have them available.

[Deader2818]

I just have a hard time choosing cause I have both RNG and COR. So its either make a great piece for 2 jobs, or a great piece for one job. Unless I wanna use Trueflight more on RNG

Usually when im cor for any events, im with the rangers so my racc is fine since ill use hunters roll, and really with the amount of racc/rattk gear COR as now, I dont see why cors think they cant shoot for TP and WS for dmg on end game mobs now.