Job Adjustments and Additions Part I (03/26/2009)

[Drex]

I love this update, but it seems like ever since Hasso/Seigan, SE has slowly been making every job into SAM.

[Araelus]

Sch will get a spell similar to haste, but instead it will lower weapon delay by a % like haste samba, and will be accessionable. It will be called Quicken !

Sch is a hybrid of time mage/ geomauncer/ whm/blm/smn/rdm anyways

Cue the 6-hit builds screaming at Scholars. "Quicken" should do my taxes, though. April 15 update?

The updates to WHM (potentially) make the job ... well, a White Mage again, instead of "just another healer oh an R3 yeah". Gauging what buffs are defining for a job is a huge step forward in game play. The thing we need to cheer on is when the additions allow for more interesting tactics and perhaps (as RingThree suggested) more challenging mobs or events because of the increased power of the playerbase. ... Instead of all the crying over what job is comparatively weaker, or who "deserves" updates and who does not.

Updates per se are not a zero-sum game. The only limit is 18 slots in an alliance, which makes people fight over what jobs have the most utility.

To clarify: RDM has sat as it is for a long time, because Square doesn't want to unbalance it. WHM and BLM have fallen behind other jobs in terms of pure gameplay factors. Thus an upgrade to WHM and BLM gets deemed "acceptable" and an update to RDM is decried by some people. This doesn't reflect the mathematical superiority of SCH over BLM in magic DD, or that /SCH benefits WHM more than any other job, or that the only updates to RDM have adversely affected the job's ability to enfeeble and enhance (so... kind of the reverse of an upgrade, what do we call that again?)

Re: the SAM stance issue, I'd say it is because the Hasso/Seigan platform works so well. And we've seen from the Solace/Misery concept that Square has some very innovative ideas in terms of implementing stances. Samurai is perceived as the strongest DD even if it isn't; Puppetmaster is perceived as the weakest job even though its adherents say it's powerful - just how much does public opinion direct the update schedule?

[Damane]

Oh please lol. You said a few pages back how you abandoned WHM because SCH can do it all better, now you're crying about SCH. All I said is that if they get anything else, have it be something original instead of stealing even more shit from WHM and BLM, the original problem that started most of the imbalance issues.

in any case sch still comes close to whm and blm, and suprasses both in lowman events where you can switch your role in no time. I am not whining that whm gets the toys, I am happy for them, it just means I have to dig the job up again, because i could do the same wiht my sch, this does not mean that I will play now only whm. SCH stays my main mage job, its awesome its good. Even after this update (depending on the potency of all this) I would believe that rdm + sch are the best match in the backline of any event.

[Invictusx]

Cue the 6-hit builds screaming at Scholars. "Quicken" should do my taxes, though. April 15 update?

The updates to WHM (potentially) make the job ... well, a White Mage again, instead of "just another healer oh an R3 yeah". Gauging what buffs are defining for a job is a huge step forward in game play. The thing we need to cheer on is when the additions allow for more interesting tactics and perhaps (as RingThree suggested) more challenging mobs or events because of the increased power of the playerbase. ... Instead of all the crying over what job is comparatively weaker, or who "deserves" updates and who does not.

Updates per se are not a zero-sum game. The only limit is 18 slots in an alliance, which makes people fight over what jobs have the most utility.

Yeah I am hoping they do this. Or revamp some of the older mobs that no one really fights anymore with better gear and make them harder, like jorm or vrtra

[Bastilla]

- Esuna (Lv61)
Removes one enfeebling effect from yourself and party members within area of effect.
Casting Esuna while Afflatus Misery is activated grants a bonus to the number and variety of enfeebling effects removed.

From the sound of the spell you don't need to have the enfeeble on you to cure the status effect.

From the french version of the update its says that the whm needs to have the enfeeble on as well.

[Corrderio]

Sch will get a spell similar to haste, but instead it will lower weapon delay by a % like haste samba, and will be accessionable. It will be called Quicken !

I want a roll like that for COR so then ppl will quit crying about COR not having haste >.>

[Max™]

Voking charmed people beats Dispelling them.

I can't remember if you can poisona charmed people, but I remember bitching because this guy wasn't sleeping the charmed monk. Then I checked the log and he was sleeping, but the monk was poisoned, so I felt like a dick.

[Corrderio]

Actually Max... killing them can be just as fun >.>

[Araelus]

Best use of Charmed people is as a MP battery for Aspir. Which, um. WHM/SCH can do. >_>

Max™, I don't think you can cast enhancing magic on the Charmed.

[Xanthu]

I wouldn't go upgrading a Mjollnir just yet. I'm working on testing a theory that a Perdu Wand is better than a Mjollnir actually lol.

God I hope I'm wrong Q_Q.

Pulling from pages back but i'm interseted to hear more on this.

And someone needs to edit his sig gif to have NPH with WHM over his head and the other guy with SCH.

Bob Barker can be SE

[Pooky]

because our weather or helix shit is so uber usefull atm yeah right... expecially the helix shit.

Which there in lies the problem. All SCH needs imo is a tweak on the helix spells so that they're not useless on high int mobs, and maybe the addition of native stoneskin pre-37 so it will be more attractive as a blm sub. Other than that (besides possibly reducing the meritted strategems to one charge) SCH is pretty solid as is.

And even if RDM gets the lolmelee buff...guess what? Its still lolrdmmelee. Unless of course its something like where every time you hit the mob it places a debuff so that other party members can hit faster, be healed hp or restored mp ect; and even then is extremely situational in its usage, nowhere near endgame viable...

I did like the Tier II enspell adding Macc and MAB for the element idea that was posted a while back though; maybe an elemental potency boost as well? Enblizzard = more potent paralyze, binds ect.

[SenseiFF11]

And even if RDM gets the lolmelee buff...guess what? Its still lolrdmmelee. Unless of course its something like where every time you hit the mob it places a debuff so that other party members can hit faster, be healed hp or restored mp ect; and even then is extremely situational in its usage, nowhere near endgame viable...

STFU. You tried extremely hard to guess the WHM update long ago and failed. Keep your pessimism about RDM update for yourself.

[Chrius]

I'd like a stance that allows RDMs to swing while casting - something would have to be nerfed though and it would probably make meleeing near useless like longer casting time

[arus2001]

Also agree that Helix spells for SCH could use some work, but that'd otherwise "fix" them for now.

As for RDM stuff, it's kind of funny seeing so many vehemently against the melee concept. There's something a lot of disgruntled RDMs have said along the lines of, "If I wanted to be a healer, I'd be a White Mage." Of course, RDMs aren't replacing BLMs or SCHs for nuking with their low elemental skill on T3s. Who cares about enfeebles in merits or mobs where they're outright resisted or require ES, anyway. Sure, we've made RDM as inefficient for our party builds just as much as SE's neglected it.

Though, what do they need for the backline. Seriously? More of the same? Sure, I would've loved for our merit spells to be level progressed and getting different merits in their stead, but that ship's set sail. More enfeebles to play with? Okay, will they change the EXP situation or not suffer the same fate of instability on harder mobs? Feel free to consider a melee update a waste, but I see "more of the same" as every bit of one. Regardless, pairing whatever RDM gets with what WHM's getting could very well be shaking up our current standard of optimal set-ups on the EXP front. Haste 2 and Refresh 2 can go right the fuck off. Cycles are not fun nor are they innovative or update worthy.

I've had my own thoughts on RDM's needs for martial prowess, but after today, I kind of figure it won't be too different than WHM's side of this deal. Some ideas still fit into that mold, others don't. Elemental MATK/MACC based on current Enspell is kind of pointless, I think, since it practically defaults to Enblizzard or Enthunder again. Same for those specific types of debuffs. If I could only theorize on something at this point, it's that our Enspell damage will contribute to our "pool" equivalent of JAs. Next guess would be one focusing on debuffing while the other on enhancing. Whatever it is, though, it can't at all cater to elemental staves or the backline role.

Just hope we see another update note tomorrow instead of Monday since we kind of got short-changed by the Crystalline Prophecy registration taking Monday-Wednesday.

[SenseiFF11]

I'd like a stance that allows RDMs to swing while casting - something would have to be nerfed though and it would probably make meleeing near useless like longer casting time

Yes please, or something a little like WHM but that increase enfeeb potency. But I'm sure SE will surprise us like today with WHM. I don't think any of us have an idea of what they will do exactly(and it's the case, every update).

[Darkrift]

Spring Water? >.>

I wish spring water would get stuff that erase can ;_;

[Yugl]

Ya, have to wonder what his reading comprehension level is.. or a lot of people's for that matter.

Just read the whole update in french, Auspice's description is a tad clearer about the buffs, the en-light effect and acc boost is only on the WHM.

Banish and Holy is simply more DMG

And like i mentioned earlier, Esuna's caster needs the enfeeble on as well

Now shut up VS.

This doesn't reflect the mathematical superiority of SCH over BLM in magic DD

AMII - Allows for quicker kills in situations where MP isn't an issue
Aga III - Allows for unique tactics (Dynamis-Xarca Eyes + Divine Might to name some oldies)
Stun - If you don't know the benefits of this then gtfo Advanced

AMII isn't that big of a deal, but as long as SCH doesn't have access to the other two spell sets, I don't see it fully replacing BLMs. Don't forget that the 320/120 (Or w/e it is) is still difficult for SCH to achieve. Also, in nuking cases SCH is bound to /RDM so in order to reapply buffs such as RR or cure status effects, a complete Arts change (Addendum:White for Both) is necessary.

[Darkrift]

Dear SE:

I don't know who blew whom, but I love it. Enclosed is my set of kneepads for the guy that's doing this, and a large sized bottle of tylenol.

Signed,
white mage cat.

(in all seriousness, this puts whms as the best healers bar none, and shoves SMN now completely out of it. RDM and SCH are not at the "omg" forefront anymore.)

I reallllly hope it "shoves" summoner's out of the picture, and we get a few new JA, avatars, etc to focus us on more damage and party buff oriented. Cure III just doesn't cut it.

[Araelus]

And even if RDM gets the lolmelee buff...guess what? Its still lolrdmmelee. Unless of course its something like where every time you hit the mob it places a debuff so that other party members can hit faster, be healed hp or restored mp ect; and even then is extremely situational in its usage, nowhere near endgame viable...

I did like the Tier II enspell adding Macc and MAB for the element idea that was posted a while back though; maybe an elemental potency boost as well? Enblizzard = more potent paralyze, binds ect.

If Square enhances RDM mêlée capability, it must be with the rationale that it does not affect their use in party/alliance situations - and strengthening RDM solo is something they have carefully avoided (except for Bio III).

The WHM stances and spells throw our preconceptions out the window.

Maybe we'll see Ex Nihilo, a Modus Veritas for RDM that affects party member's Refresh and Regen rates.

A stance that increases Enfeebling Magic Accuracy as cumulative enspell damage increase.

A spell to add En-dark damage that continually re-Gravities the mob.

Or something totally outrageous that we'll welcome with open arms and never saw coming.

To whoever it was who expected a 50% Slow Cast penalty to RDM mêlée, that's counterproductive. RDM mêlée in, say, a merit situation is "laughable" because of a wealth of factors: lower-than-DNC weapon skill rating, TP feeding, etc., but most importantly that a RDM is casting nearly all the time.

A bunch of the people who are commenting on RDM updates have "75 RDM" in their signatures. Have you guys soloed on RDM at all, even on some even-match crabs? How often did you just straight-up fight a mob?

TP doesn't do very much for a Red Mage, except if Death Blossom's m.eva- lands, or MP return using a dagger, or if you're /DNC in Campaign (have to reach far for that one) so despite the ability to keep -10% physical damage in your shield slot while idling, I'm never idling very much solo.

And what to wear? Well, the general lack of use for TP helps a bit, but say you want to lock that sword/shield slot. Guespiere has 3 less MND than Mythic Wand +1, sure, but now there's no more HQ staves. And it's all downhill from there, once you add in Refresh/Haste cycles.

TL;DR White Mage doesn't have to melee for this update to benefit them. They don't even really have to use Afflatus Misery.

The connections to a soloing RDM are tenuous at best and downright inane at worst. And a RDM who isn't soloing already has their hands full with spells. So swinging any weapon in the process takes away from their other duties.

[Melios]

BLM could use those T5's SE wont release, and maybe a /ja to make them MP efficient without /SCH.

Two words: Aspir II

Hmhmhmhm.. I wonder what theyll do..


PS. Update SMN.

Fixed