Possible Solution to the NASA Bot

[Yabby]

Problem is if a LS uses the right "tools" to camp sandworm / DI. They win the claims very easily

This is why i stay away from grounds and shit, i have no idea what tool could find an NM over mult maps.... i figured there would be a way to do it if it was just a few zones. What i meant with the valk dunes things was that it was open to spawn anywhere.... from right outside bastok, to despot camp.

[Unstable]

This is why i stay away from grounds and shit, i have no idea what tool could find an NM over mult maps.... i figured there would be a way to do it if it was just a few zones. What i meant with the valk dunes things was that it was open to spawn anywhere.... from right outside bastok, to despot camp.

Would not matter if every zone >_> its a easy trick and the stuff is on windower fourms for free

[Gredival]

Have to agree this is the only surefire way to render bots obsolete it worked for Ullikumi so i dont see why they shouldnt just do it with these as well.

The problem with this solution is the ultimate impact it has on End Game.

Look at what happened with Ulli though in respect to Byakko's Haidate. All the really whiney people who wouldn't even do Sky before started to crowd Sky. It got worse, for each shell, to do Sky for a while but in the end the change of the mob from a set timer to a farm mob exploded the total number of Byakko pops per server. Haidate's rarity was eventually vastly decreased.

Even with drop rate nerfs, unless you made Ridill drop with the rarity of the current Dring, you eventually normalize Ebody and Ridill and everything else because it's still easier to get drops when you have infinite chances at the mob compared to one chance a day everyone fights over. Just look at how many more Ebodies are in circulation now compared to pre-Einherjar nerf.

Within a year everyone has Ridill/Ebody/Dring. This basically would kill End Game. Whatever you think of the value of competition, however much of a waste of time you think World Spawns are, the drive for LS to compete with each other and thedrive of players to want to be better than other (not just good) is a main aspect of almost every MMO.

Even for the people who play this game completely socially, most of you do some events for some items -- Dynamis and Limbus, maybe Salvage. What would you do after you have *everything* ? Lots of people who got to that *everything* stage eventually found the game boring and quit. This would be massively accelerated with a system where everything is a force pop.

There are very few of us that would continue playing this game just to use it as a chat program with a GUI interface and to help noobs in a social. Or to go EXP even after we were capped on merits because we like spending hours just beating up mobs for no purpose.

As much as the non-HNMLS population says it plays "just to have fun" you need things *to do* to have fun. However much of a time sink you think World Spawns are, they contribute in a large way to making FFXI fun because they create goals for people to attain. Killing the King system removes the goals of a large portion of the player base.

Doing something like this would necessitate Square to change the way they release content to be more similar to WoW, where all the top tier gear has a shelf life of 6 months at most and a whole new line of End Game activities is released after 6 months to keep people playing. There is no way this game could survive without King competition with the way Square currently releases content.

Now I'm not going to say whether this would be good or bad (I personally say bad; it gets tedious in WoW doing new raids when you know the shit is going to be pointless once the next line of instances is released). The important question is whether Square has the foresight and capability to fundamentally change the way they release content to compensate for killing the King system.

The way everyone bad mouths the company for literally everything they do, I think the obvious answer is no.

A switch to a force pop system without a fundamental change in FFXI's content system would kill the game definitively (even faster for those who already believe the game is dying). Any returning players would eventually get that Ridill and Adaberk they quit over never getting and quit again. All the addicts playing to "complete" their gear would do so and get bored. You solve the problem at the cost of decreasing FFXI's lifespan, a very high price considering how old the game already is.

Any solution to the King system has to come on the Square coding/administrative side. They have to hire more GMs or STF with people actually knowledgeable about End Game and care about busting people for this stuff. They need to sue bot makers (precedent has been set for this). They need to start buying these bots and cracking them. They need to recode the way models load and the way lag works so that players have the best chance possible to compete with bots. Then they need to lessen the burden of proof and start putting sting agents into the game. Slip them into botting Linkshells and start banning for admission of botting in /l or encouragement of botting on LS websites.

[Yabby]

Making it easier to spawn an NM really wouldn't kill the game as much as you think it would. You get that item faster... yes. The thing is there is always something else to get for another job. Look at the people with all jobs 75... have 4+ relics... They don't leave LOL. Shit it would take a year to get all the gear from dynamis alone even with the higher drop rates. Why because there are another 20 people that need the same thing you do.

But waiting 3 hours to see another LS claim a mob that drops said gear will cause you to quit a lot faster than getting to fight said mob for the chance of dropping the gear you seek. I will say if they did make it a force pop and there was 3 to 4 faffy, possable 1 to 2 nids a day the drop rate would have to go down a lot. But to "Complete" a gear for one job alone even with forced pops would take a long time... and there is a ton of other jobs to fulfill another few years just to lvl up and get gear for.

Now if the stress of watching 3 hours pass and not even getting to fight the mob you waited for is gone, it would attract more "Less hardcore" players to play this game. What does that mean for SE? The same 12 bucks a month from these players, but using less bandwidth because they are not logged in 24/7.

What you say is true in a sense but you seem to think that the ground gear is the end all be all in FFXI... that went out the door with limbus,salvage,einjar, and sea.

[Hanyoko]

Why not have the NM spawn as a NPC like the apkallu in Mount Zhayolm. Then every 10 seconds it asks for a spell or ability to be used. First party to use 3 correct gets claim. Using the incorrect one homepoints you and your party! (not serious but would be sadistic).

[Kipling]

They won't do any of this, hope you guys realize that. Changing Ulli and some other NM's is one thing, they won't mess with king camps. The claim delay stuff was the most they will do.

[Yabby]

A MAN CAN DREAM!!!

[Kipling]

A MAN CAN DREAM!!!

Dreams do come true, it's called Valgrind.

[Gredival]

Making it easier to spawn an NM really wouldn't kill the game as much as you think it would. You get that item faster... yes. The thing is there is always something else to get for another job. Look at the people with all jobs 75... have 4+ relics... They don't leave LOL. Shit it would take a year to get all the gear from dynamis alone even with the higher drop rates. Why because there are another 20 people that need the same thing you do

But waiting 3 hours to see another LS claim a mob that drops said gear will cause you to quit a lot faster than getting to fight said mob for the chance of dropping the gear you seek. I will say if they did make it a force pop and there was 3 to 4 faffy, possable 1 to 2 nids a day the drop rate would have to go down a lot. But to "Complete" a gear for one job alone even with forced pops would take a long time... and there is a ton of other jobs to fulfill another few years just to lvl up and get gear for.

But what about with competition removed. I already stated there is a desire not only to have gear and achieve your own goals but to be better than others. Your goals scale up as you succeed. But you turn Kings to a force pop you remove the biggest source of direct competition there is in FFXI End Game. That kills a major motivation for a lot of people.

Not to mention the tons of shells are out at Kings for their own gain, to monopolize them and sell off drops for $$. Sure they could sell drops after it moves to a ??? system still... but probably not enough to justify sitting there farming pop items for hours on end. Kings are about a 7 minute investment. It's a lot easier to get an LS to stay there for a chunk of 3 hrs and come back for windows than to make them farm for 3hrs straight.

I don't imagine FFXI would die right away, but it would accelerate the process. And really, what is everyone at Kings clamoring for? Ridill, Adaberk, Dalmatica, Defending Ring. Maybe Hecatomb Subligar or Koenig Cuirass if you got a dedicated Thief and a Paladin that really cares about having a vast selection of body gear. It's not like every new job means you need a whole other item from Kings.

Unless you made the drops *very* rare I can't see a very successful shell needing to stay at ground for over a year if you changed the HNMs like this.

Now if the stress of watching 3 hours pass and not even getting to fight the mob you waited for is gone, it would attract more "Less hardcore" players to play this game. What does that mean for SE? The same 12 bucks a month from these players, but using less bandwidth because they are not logged in 24/7.

Not true. The game is still significantly harder in less respects. Lots of people are turned off by the leveling system. That's why you have such a crappy WoW -> XI turnover. They play for a week, make it to the dunes, then rip their eyes out.

And XI can't compete with the newer MMO's in attracting a new customer base really. Its slower, the engine is outdated in a lot of respects, and its very technical. For old timers this is what makes the game great. But that stuff won't get a new customer who's weighing XI vs. WoW vs. AoC vs. RoM vs. Warhammer.

The only way XI could compete in the way you imagine is, as I said, to radically change the amount and way content is introduced into XI. Rapid content updates in the style of WoW fits casual players MUCH better.

What you say is true in a sense but you seem to think that the ground gear is the end all be all in FFXI... that went out the door with limbus,salvage,einjar, and sea.

Yeah but look at the people who DO camp Kings. Most of them have only the ground items left to get. People who still have significant Limbus and Sea gear to get tend not to be in the high end shells that still dedicate 21 hrs a week for the sole purpose of getting Ridills.

[Kaylia]

Make claim delay any number between 4 and 30sec, with a 3sec lock between attempt. It would be a real loterry.

[byte]

Not to mention the tons of shells are out at Kings for their own gain, to monopolize them and sell off drops for $$. Sure they could sell drops after it moves to a ??? system still... but probably not enough to justify sitting there farming pop items for hours on end.

Q fuckingQ

My heart bleeds for them.

[Takedown3]

surprised at 4 pages

[Syntex]

The best answer to this is to make a middle ground between camping and a forced pop.

Look at odin, it gave people a way to get the Abj but not dimishing the returns of camping kings for them as well since it takes organization and 2 weeks to do it.

IMO Make NQandHQ kings in a ENM type fight where you fight them there and it has a cooldown of 5 days with a 15% chance of a nid.

It would give people an alternative to camping but not making it pointless to camp.

Also as long as bots exist there is no solution short of making it a forced popto deal with it, no matter what you change a bot can be made to compensate in some way. and making it a forced pop would destroy the game in some way...

[Katalyn]

Here is my whacky solution to the boting problem.

Have the HNM spawn claimed to a random player in the area. It could pop with fun flavor text like, "Today I choose to test the might of ABC! Face me mortal!"

Whaky Solution + 1 have the HNM remember who its poped claimed to so it will not pop claimed to that person again for X days.

Imagine the fun when it pops claimed to the lone monk outside the alliance. :D

[Meat]

Here is my whacky solution to the boting problem.

GTFO of the pit, it's clearly not for you if you're going to bitch and moan about bots

[Eanae]

This thread has reached new levels of fail.

Here is my whacky solution to the boting problem.

GTFO of the pit, it's clearly not for you if you're going to bitch and moan about bots

^ Also this.

[Kerberoz]

Here is my whacky solution to the boting problem.

GTFO of the pit, it's clearly not for you if you're going to bitch and moan about bots

It's called a pit because only trash belongs there? Gotcha.

[Tricen]

It's called a pit because only trash belongs there? Gotcha.

pit
1   /pɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [pit] Show IPA noun, verb, pit⋅ted, pit⋅ting.
–noun
1. a naturally formed or excavated hole or cavity in the ground: pits caused by erosion; clay pits.
2. a covered or concealed excavation in the ground, serving as a trap.
3. Mining.
a. an excavation made in exploring for or removing a mineral deposit, as by open-cut methods.
b. the shaft of a coal mine.
c. the mine itself.
4. the abode of evil spirits and lost souls; hell: an evil inspiration from the pit.
5. the pits, Slang. an extremely unpleasant, boring, or depressing place, condition, person, etc.; the absolute worst: When you're alone, Christmas is the pits.
6. a hollow or indentation in a surface: glass flawed by pits.
7. a natural hollow or depression in the body: the pit of the back.
8. pits, Informal. the armpits: up to my pits in work.
9. a small, depressed scar, as one of those left on the skin after smallpox or chicken pox.
10. an enclosure, usually below the level of the spectators, as for staging fights between dogs, cocks, or, formerly, bears.
11. (in a commodity exchange) a part of the floor of the exchange where trading in a particular commodity takes place: the corn pit.
12. Architecture.
a. all that part of the main floor of a theater behind the musicians.
b. British. the main floor of a theater behind the stalls.
c. orchestra (def. 2a).
13. (in a hoistway) a space below the level of the lowest floor served.
14. Auto Racing. an area at the side of a track, for servicing and refueling the cars.
15. Bowling. the sunken area of a bowling alley behind the pins, for the placement or recovery of pins that have been knocked down.
16. Track. the area forward of the takeoff point in a jumping event, as the broad jump or pole vault, that is filled with sawdust or soft earth to lessen the force of the jumper's landing.
17. the area or room of a casino containing gambling tables.



que?

[Fallyn]

"Instance" cooldowns are in effect in a fair few other MMOs, I don't see the problem with ??? cooldowns; pop a Faf or whatever and everyone in the LS(?) gets locked out of doing it again for X days, or something to that effect. Although kicking someone who is gunna pop the NM from the LS would probably happen so would need a way around that too.

[BRP]

This, original idea was from Max™ iirc

No, no it wasn't.

Goddamn it, let's not go down that route.