Windower v4 Alpha

[ryskar]

Post

Ah... this made my day. Thank you.

[[Cookies]]

I wouldnt want them on SE's team, unless they were allowed free reign over what they do, otherwise SE will just make them follow strict guidelines.

Exactly. You'd probably have to say goodbye to stuff like SpellCast and Distance unfortunately.

[pchan]

I think people get overexcited over the benefit of this. I use both windower (mainly when dualboxing, this way I don't need to switch my latop on) and official windower. I 've never seen a difference in game play - seeing tp is useless or close to, recast is useless, distance is useless - and the only beneficial part would be fillmode to make some pulls easier ; there are however graphics differences, and official one looks more colorfull for me and prior to me changing computer, windower would look shit in some zone.

Don't forget that in the end of the day you are playing the exact same game. You'll lag in dynamis, salvage won't drop, beseiged will kick you and you average pickup meripo will be 10k/h.

[Aymee]

Don't forget that in the end of the day you are playing the exact same game. You'll lag in dynamis, salvage won't drop, beseiged will kick you and you average pickup meripo will be 10k/h.

It's not the grind that gets changed because of the development of these things, 99% of the differences are endgame or instanced activities. Though your statement is valid, you could use botting as a substitute and say it's fine because it won't change your droprate or increase your exp/hr.

To use another example of a time where some but not all people were 'taking advantage of expandable points in code' let us go back to Salvage duping. Only some but not all were doing it, but the gap in results benefits caused economies to be placed under stress. SE even adjusted the cost of a Mythic based on the false alexandrite count being produced by the dupers because they made it look as though more came out of any average run than truly does. As a result, everyone now suffers if they try to upgrade.

Application into Windower: There are times where click-to-cast and other proposed new features would give a competitive advantage in battle, and thus it disenfranchises those who play out the battles normally (re: it makes things 'easier'). Windower was created with the intention of making a lot of basic features more convenient, not to change the battle system and give a competitive advantage. This crosses the line. In other words, it's against the spirit of the original Windower to add this kind of stuff. It's turned adding convenience into taking advantage of holes/exploits in code to change the engine.

[Kohan]

Application into Windower: There are times where click-to-cast and other proposed new features would give a competitive advantage in battle, and thus it disenfranchises those who play out the battles normally (re: it makes things 'easier'). Windower was created with the intention of making a lot of basic features more convenient, not to change the battle system and give a competitive advantage. This crosses the line. In other words, it's against the spirit of the original Windower to add this kind of stuff. It's turned adding convenience into taking advantage of holes/exploits in code to change the engine.

Considering that you can already click on people, bring up a mini-menu, and from there select various things you'd like to do to them, I wouldn't call it an exploit at all. It's simply cutting out the middle man, making it easier for you to reach your intended destination faster.

It's surely already been mentioned in this thread numerous times, but "World of Warcraft" has similar tools made available in the form of add-ons. Square-Enix themselves is already aping some of Blizzard's tactics -- not that they can be blamed, since FFXI pre-dates WoW, and Blizzard likely included FFXI in their pre-development research.

They're adding things like <stal> (to bypass the blinking issue), making the various tiers of Raise cost less MP/be more effective (the sort of modifying Blizzard does just about every significant update), and so on, so forth. The Windower crew is simply taking the next step, much like WoW's impressive add-on development community.

[Aymee]

Considering that you can already click on people, bring up a mini-menu, and from there select various things you'd like to do to them, I wouldn't call it an exploit at all. It's simply cutting out the middle man, making it easier for you to reach your intended destination faster.

...You just defined what an exploit is. Take the existing system and circumvent it. In the same spirit you could say "everyone who keeps playing gets level 75 eventually anyway so we might as well skip the EXPing process to save everyone time"... and ask Windower to do that for you. An extreme example, but that is your logic.

They're adding things like <stal> (to bypass the blinking issue), making the various tiers of Raise cost less MP/be more effective (the sort of modifying Blizzard does just about every significant update), and so on, so forth. The Windower crew is simply taking the next step, much like WoW's impressive add-on development community.

This is not their job. You're basically saying they have carte blanche to do whatever they want via some righteous power bestowed upon them by the community.

Regarding changing MP costs and the linking to this, that's an official development team decision. How you're extending it is that we should have been able to lower the MP cost ourselves already because we found it inconvenient... since Windower takes what some people find too bothersome and adjusts it. Not at all a valid comparison.

[Gaea]

windower is bad and you guys are cheaters. enjoy your LM17s.


Seriously, though, looks nice. I hope it fixes Spellcast crashing when you spam it with commands.

[ryskar]

I honestly don't see how people can play without windower. I tried to play this on xbox 360, and turned it off within 30 min.

I am used to all the plug ins, and now rely on windower to the point where I can never go back. Its too late for me guys, leave me behind! save yourself!

Well, once you go black...

[Seanr]

SE even adjusted the cost of a Mythic based on the false alexandrite count being produced by the dupers because they made it look as though more came out of any average run than truly does. As a result, everyone now suffers if they try to upgrade.

Wut... what was it before >_>?

[Stromgarde]

They used the drop rate to gauge how much of an increase they would get in the patch. Since the perception was that the inflated value was the real value, after the triplication was nerfed we were left with shitty drop rates.

On topic! Aikar is tracking bugs over at the Windower forums in this thread, so pop over there if you encounter a bug you'd like to report. A list of the currently known ones is on a tracker here.

[Rhinox]

...You just defined what an exploit is. Take the existing system and circumvent it. In the same spirit you could say "everyone who keeps playing gets level 75 eventually anyway so we might as well skip the EXPing process to save everyone time"... and ask Windower to do that for you. An extreme example, but that is your logic.


This is not their job. You're basically saying they have carte blanche to do whatever they want via some righteous power bestowed upon them by the community.

Regarding changing MP costs and the linking to this, that's an official development team decision. How you're extending it is that we should have been able to lower the MP cost ourselves already because we found it inconvenient... since Windower takes what some people find too bothersome and adjusts it. Not at all a valid comparison.

Cry harder.

[Knightfell]

Hory crap this UI looks amazing, haven't used windower in over a year since I swicthed to a vista machine (couldn't get it to look right) so I have just stuck with the FFXI config full screen mode, but after seeing this I can't wait to try it out.

Look forward to its release, thank you (and various peeps on the windower team) for all your work.

[Shassira]

To Aymee: Stop trying. Most people here lack the maturity to discuss what you are trying to argue as they take these discussions personaly and focus on "winning the argument". It's not worth trying, specialy when it comes to this specific topic. (Just look at the above poster for an example).

Disclaimer: I do use windower too. I'm cool too.

[Fistandantilus]

95%+ of this forum use Windower, arguing against it is not going to get anywhere. If you think it is immoral fine, but the rest of us are going to use it because it makes the game more fun to us. Arguing that it is bad is wasting your time and just annoying.

[SephYuyX]

I dont know, I think he changed the way I play the game.. You know, now thinking about it, windower really does add an edge, and I think thats wrong. The windower team, and the people who use windower need to be banned, or be held liable for something, it's really not fair.

Everyone should be on the same playing field, windower skews this, and I think people should stop supporting it.

[Fallyn]

I dont know, I think he changed the way I play the game.. You know, now thinking about it, windower really does add an edge, and I think thats wrong. The windower team, and the people who use windower need to be banned, or be held liable for something, it's really not fair.

Everyone should be on the same playing field, windower skews this, and I think people should stop supporting it.

^

[Stromgarde]

I dont know, I think he changed the way I play the game.. You know, now thinking about it, windower really does add an edge, and I think thats wrong. The windower team, and the people who use windower need to be banned, or be held liable for something, it's really not fair.

Everyone should be on the same playing field, windower skews this, and I think people should stop supporting it.

Hi, I think Internet Explorer 6 is a perfectly good web browser and anyone who improves on it is a jerkass who deserves to be kicked off the internet.

[Kirbyprime]

Hi, I think Internet Explorer 6 is a perfectly good web browser and anyone who improves on it is a jerkass who deserves to be kicked off the internet.

I know what you're doing but IE6 is freaking wrong no matter what context it's in >< . Worst browser ever.

[Silenka]

95%+ of this forum use Windower, arguing against it is not going to get anywhere. If you think it is immoral fine, but the rest of us are going to use it because it makes the game more fun to us. Arguing that it is bad is wasting your time and just annoying.

^ +1


Can't wait for the new windower to come out though, it looks cool, but I don't think I'll use all the new features he's planning to include.

[Rhinox]

I dont know, I think he changed the way I play the game.. You know, now thinking about it, windower really does add an edge, and I think thats wrong. The windower team, and the people who use windower need to be banned, or be held liable for something, it's really not fair.

Everyone should be on the same playing field, windower skews this, and I think people should stop supporting it.

APRIL FOOLS!


right? Right....?