Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

[Amastacia]

Somehow not shocked that most of the "RDM is teh hax, gtfo" posts are by people who don't play RDM.

And the people QQing are people who have...for 5 years.

I don't think any of us would argue that RDM is underpowered. Just boring, especially if we're not the sort who get off on playing a Massively Singleplayer Online RPG (e.g. soloing everything). We're not asking for updates because the job needs a fix. We're asking for updates because we're bored out of our gourds. We have this whole spell list, but if it was cut down to Refresh, Haste, and maybe Cure IV, no one would really notice (except us).

No one invites a RDM for enfeebling magic, precisely because BRD has one song that is more useful than everything we have put together. Elegy puts FFXI on easy mode, and there are pathetically few things you can't elegy. Compare that to the list of things that dislike being or outright refuse to be enfeebled by a RDM regardless of the quality of gear and merits, and it gets even more ludicrous. It certainly helps when it works, but it's mainly lauded in small-man stuff when there isn't a BRD around.

And yeah, RDM can tank, but let's face the music. There are basically no endgame tanking situations where any job is outright superior to PLD. There are some where RDM or NIN can compete, but there's never a time when you would absolutely want to have one instead of a PLD.

Edit: The best part about Composure is that any time you'd actually be in a position to use it to its full effect... you'd be better off switching to another job. Any real melee chews through weak stuff faster than RDM. The hard stuff puts much more of a premium on survivability than kill speed, so shooting yourself in the foot with longer Stoneskin and Utsusemi recasts is retarded. I guess a few extended buffs every 5 minutes is cool though.

[Meian]

We have this whole spell list, but if it was cut down to Refresh, Haste, and maybe Cure IV, no one would really notice (except us).

Blue Mage spell list.

Few friends of mine love doing the repetitive crap that is the "support rdm" role (no idea why tbh). But this is why people level other jobs too to get out of that.
Edit: Least I am sure that was SE's intentions to start with

[Ultimagi]

Called it, melee stance that gives accuracy, slow on magic, and enhanced enspells.

Everyone needs to quit bitching, this is a good update for Red Mage that we didn't even need. You can pop Composure to cast enhancing magic on yourself then take it off every 5 minutes. If the increased duration doesn't last 5 minutes, you can cast them again without composure! Shocking, I know. Enspells II will be amazing for soloing or low man situations. These combined with Death Blossom will make landing enfeebles in full potency equipment easier.

[Eanae]

SE doesnt even know that job exists anymore.

; ; But they promised... enmity dropping ja... etc... ; ;

[Asura_Zilla]

I'm glad RDM got this update. It'll be like a retard-radar... the moment my RDM uses Composure (in merits) >> /pcmd kick. Also maybe people will actually start forgetting about lolmeleeRDM.

SMN buff, though, /slap in the face. <_<;

[Ker]

Anyone who says this good your either kidding yourself or your out of your fucken mind

[Dimmauk]

I'm glad for the ACC boost. Now I can DD on HNMs? Or now I can solo things with my sword and actually hit it, even though I have maxed Sword merits, Suppa and Ohat.

At least the Enspells with be neat to play with for about a week.

[Asura_Zilla]

Anyone who says this good your either kidding yourself or your out of your fucken mind

This isn't good, it's great, stop wanting to be a melee RDM, actually level another job if you want to, k?

[ronin sparthos]

No one invites a RDM for enfeebling magic, precisely because BRD has one song that is more useful than everything we have put together. Elegy puts FFXI on easy mode, and there are pathetically few things you can't elegy. Compare that to the list of things that dislike or outright refuse to be enfeebled by a RDM regardless of the quality of gear and merits, and it gets even more ludicrous. It certainly helps when it works, but it's mainly lauded in small-man stuff when there isn't a BRD around.

Blame the watered down EXP mechanics.

On anything remotely hard you want debuffs and that is where RDM would shine but instead SE has decided that they wanted the job to be watered down to Refresh and Haste cycles. Elegy did not put RDM enfeebles to bed, Colibri/Imp style monsters did.

Monsters just dont stay alive long enough anymore for enfeebles but on anything that does the enfeebles of a RDM are potent and useful.

Ive always been of the mind that SE realized Elegy was too strong in hindsight and thats why alot of the newer age NMs flat out resist it via normal means. SE forgot about Elemental Seal or decided that the BRDs would have to sub a nigh-useless subjob to land it.

[Enedin]

Being RDM myself, I never felt the need for an update, I'm just glad we're getting something to play with from time to time. I love my job, I do NOT merit on it (hell, that's boring as fuck), I get to do all kinds of stuff in endgame and I still feel RDM is very, very powerful.

People bitch all the time, geez. Now WHM, they needed an update and holy fucking crap part 1: they got one!

[Ker]

This isn't good, it's great, stop wanting to be a melee RDM, actually level another job if you want to, k?

I don't want to melee as rdm meh when did i ever say that I'm super piss they didn't give us something that benefit party like JA AOE EN and if i want to melee as mage i'll play Bluemage

[Meian]

I don't want to melee as rdm meh when did i ever say that I'm super piss they didn't give us something that benefit party like JA AOE EN and if i want to melee as mage i'll play Bluemage

SCH Accession
SMN BP

[Shinta]

One thing to remember is that this definitely isn't even the main SMN update. They are still getting new avatars sometime this year ... I think.

[Crisco]

Problem is that when SE did RDM, then did it well right off the bat. Problem for us is that it's the same old thing for years running, and it's getting bland. We need some spice. Unfortunately, it's hard for SE to add to RDM without breaking it. Enspell2 can be nice for Ceremonial dagger solo's, but it's going to be hard to justify using it for anything else over Joyeuse. I'm not happy about composure, but we still don't know the extent of it's strength.

[Asura_Zilla]

I don't want to melee as rdm meh when did i ever say that I'm super piss they didn't give us something that benefit party like JA AOE EN and if i want to melee as mage i'll play Bluemage

MP better spent hasting/refreshing/curing. Cause we all know SE would make it 30dmg and cost 100MP or some shit.

[Kenji]

I'm not gonna talk about RDM much, as it's all been said. RDM was already good, and we don't know how these new additions will play out. For years, people were saying that RDM didn't need anything, except perhaps an Enspell II line, which they got. And as a WHM/SCH, I'm sick of seeing people go "RDM onry" to merit or nyzul groups because I can't refresh. So I'm feeling a little sadistic at seeing the pain.

SMN, however... I will say, that SMN has more coming. SE did say that one of two new avatars is coming in the July update, and I can expect that they will add the other fix they mentioned: if a Rage BP fails due to too far away, you don't lose MP and BP timer doesn't start, ie, you can try to Rage BP again. Thus, I don't think we'll get a ranged enhancement.

Now, if you aren't familiar with your neighborhood SMN, if they merit magic attack to 5, and a merit BP to 5, they can unleash a 1k magic damage attack for 184 mp. Not great. And keep in mind, that meriting a BP to 5, means it casts the spell with the equivilant of 240 TP.

SE is now upping both the base damage, and the damage gained via TP. I fully expect a Lv5 merit BP to do 1500-ish. And now let's toss in all the pet: MAB gear that seems to be popping up all over the place; I fully expect to see an Avatar able to pop out a 2k magic damage BP, which is hate free.

Although, granted this is my optimist side speaking, and this is only every 45 seconds. But before I ask for any other SMN buffs, I want to see what the new avatars can do. But of course, the main issue is one of speed: SMN moves slow compared to other classes, in return for large hate-free damage spikes. So far, this balance has fallen a bit short.

[Meian]

SMN, however... I will say, that SMN has more coming. SE did say that one of two new avatars is coming in the July update, and I can expect that they will add the other fix they mentioned: if a Rage BP fails due to too far away, you don't lose MP and BP timer doesn't start, ie, you can try to Rage BP again. Thus, I don't think we'll get a ranged enhancement.

Just curious to where they said one would come in July (drifting in and out during my away time)

[Whaleporn]

"Hey look, mechanics that make white mage do it's job in a more interesting and engaging way and let them switch up tactics sometimes while still playing effectively!"

"Oh... RED mages? Here's a spell we already coded and a JA which directly counteracts your job traits and hey look, you can now put your face into AOE more often. JOB ADJUSTED, MYTH BUSTED"

"... what the fuck is a summoner?"

[Isiolia]

People are crying about RDM's enfeebling...? Really? They already boosted them AND RDM's enfeebling skill, can RDMs STILL not land debuffs or something?

The general problem with Enfeebling magic is that on a lot of mobs where it'd be really really useful, you also run into complete immunities, resistance build-up, and so on.

I mean, to a degree, RDM also just has a lot of the common spells, in some cases a merited, slightly better version. There's no enfeebling effect that's unique to RDM, and the closest we get (Weight), was specifically nerfed on some mobs.
The only claim to fame then is higher skill, which while nice, is just a slightly better shot at landing subbable spells.

Enspell IIs give the ability to do -element, which BLM, NIN, and BRD could already do.

IMO, the "enfeebling thing" is a twofold issue with RDM. First is actually making them stand out more in terms of having unique spells for it. Second is making it so that enfeebling in a broader scope is actually more viable than it is.

[brisk]

Looks like my 5/5 Heavenly Strike may actually warrant some more use! But those buff updates me QQ. How about Rolling Thunder being based on SMN skill like SCH?