Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

[Virtuous Saint]

Why would you even assume the resistance- will be significant? It will most likely be the same as ninjutsu and am2, and not stack with them.

Exactly the point. The funnier thing is that it works just like AM, AMII, and Ninjitsu in that it lowers the elemental resistance of the element which is strong to the element casted, this is so sad for enspell which will be resisted on HNM probably 80% of the time; the resistance doesn't even coincide with the element of the enspell.

[Reapz]

I can't understand why SMNs are bitching about this? Yes we still have stuff that needs tweaking, and I fully agree with what was mentioned earlier about some ward BPs being changed to smn skill affecting their potency (Earthern Ward up to 350, Phalanx higher, Rolling Thunder more potent + duration etc) but these additions/fixes are a welcome start. Merit BPs are already pretty decent if you go 5/5 on 2 of them and they are being buffed again (even if its only to the standard of the LV70 BPs, its a magical version of them atleast)

[Kipling]

We were promised updates to RDM. Forgive us for hoping they wouldn't be shit.

More pissed they didn't include anything about the infamous "Is too far away." but still losing your mp shit for smn... D:

[evilpaul]

Well, duh! People will just make parties of 6 RDMs with Ceremonial Daggers and have them each using a different Enspell and hitting HNMs in a synchronized fashion to "spin the wheel" of resistance debuffs.

[Pendas]

I think the problem many people have is that RDM is is a support / healing job, the rarest type (other than tank) out of the 20 that we currently have. Support Jobs are rare in this game, yet DD Jobs are a dime a dozen, we have plenty of jobs capable of doing physical damage on HNMs. The question is, why would SE give a support job the ability to DD when there are 10 other jobs that can do it just fine (maybe even better, we'll have to see the damage of the Ens) AND hinder its ability to operate as a support job at the same time?

In order to make Melee RDM worthwhile, they need to not only give them an ability that would make people prefer their RDMs to be doing damage instead of hasting/healing/refreshing but also make their damage comparable to other DDs. Unless these En-spells can pull that off then its pretty pointless.

[Kerberoz]

I can't understand why SMNs are bitching about this? Yes we still have stuff that needs tweaking, and I fully agree with what was mentioned earlier about some BPs being changed to smn skill affecting their potency, but these additions/fixes are a welcome start. Merit BPs are already pretty decent if you go 5/5 on 2 of them and they are being buffed again (even if its only to the standard of the LV70 BPs, its a magical version of them atleast)

Because bug fixes don't belong in POL announcements being labeled as "additions". Hell, I've never even wanted to level SMN but I think it's bullshit.

[Ahlah]

Seriously ppl really have problem figuring out the concept behind all the updates?

It will have been a big mistake if SE simply give RDM more powerful melee gear/weaponskill and turn RDM into another melee job. Instead RDM is encouraged to melee HNM so that they can debuff target mob with Enspell II and Death Blossom.

TP feeding shouldn't be an issue now, consider a tank party made of PLDx2, RDM/NIN, RDM, WHM, BRD, Auspice will hit both PLD and RDM. The total amount of TP fed to HNM is probably similar to 2 PLD without Auspice. There is no reason to give up the benefits of enspell II and DB because all you need to do is put an extra RDM in your tank party.

Death Blossom has been tested on TAU HNM and shows promising result plus it's the only mythic weaponskill which can open both light and dark skillchain. It's probably safe to assume that enspell II + DB +/- magic burst (30% magic accuracy) is the best you can get without elemental seal.

[Shin Volcano]

I do Like SMNS Range increase, that was annoying beyond belife, but i doubt it will make SMNs any more "disrable" then they already are..

[Kipling]

Because bug fixes don't belong in POL announcements being labeled as "additions". Hell, I've never even wanted to level SMN but I think it's bullshit.

Tbh, the buff range thing did need changing. Any smn that's been stuck in a blm pt at tia or wherever else that has been spamming Dia's MAB+ move only to see how horribly shitty the range is will be happy they atleast attempted to make a change.

[Aksannyi]

That's great and all, but I don't want to melee HNMs. I don't want to collect a fuckton of melee gear on top of all my mage shit.

I want to go back to the backline, cast my spells, and not have to worry that Slow II will get resisted instead of desperately needing ES just to fucking land it, let alone worry about potency. I want to be sure that all the gear I spent loads of time and gil to get will actually help me land an enfeeble instead of relying on a 10 minute SUBBED job ability.

Is that so much to ask? If I wanted to melee, I'd level a fucking melee job.

[Araelus]

Seriously ppl really have problem figuring out the concept behind all the updates?

TP feeding shouldn't be an issue now, consider a tank party made of PLDx2, RDM/NIN, RDM, WHM, BRD, ...

Why sub NIN? AoE will still land, Utsusemi timers shot to hell, you might as well sub RNG or DRG for acc+ boost. All that "RDM/NIN" is doing is hitting the mob now and again to keep Enspell II on.

Or did you miss the part where Death Blossom is not a 100% enfeeble?

Although if the RDM/NIN is a well geared "tanking RDM" then I guess...

Nope. Still think it's a lame JA. Misses the point of RDM being a mindless job in party play, and the enfeebling magic issues already discussed to death.

[Ahlah]

That's great and all, but I don't want to melee HNMs. I don't want to collect a fuckton of melee gear on top of all my mage shit.

I want to go back to the backline, cast my spells, and not have to worry that Slow II will get resisted instead of desperately needing ES just to fucking land it, let alone worry about potency. I want to be sure that all the gear I spent loads of time and gil to get will actually help me land an enfeeble instead of relying on a 10 minute SUBBED job ability.

Is that so much to ask? If I wanted to melee, I'd level a fucking melee job.

No1 force you to play melee RDM, it simply opens up another playstyle for RDM. As mentioned before you will need 2 type of RDM in tank party, the one who is geared towards melee and focus on magical debuffs unless he/she also has Murgleis (with Composure on, it will take too long to cast haste and refresh on other party member), and the other RDM should be resposible for refresh/haste/debuff duties.

[Ahlah]

Why sub NIN? AoE will still land, Utsusemi timers shot to hell, you might as well sub RNG or DRG for acc+ boost. All that "RDM/NIN" is doing is hitting the mob now and again to keep Enspell II on.

Or did you miss the part where Death Blossom is not a 100% enfeeble?

Although if the RDM/NIN is a well geared "tanking RDM" then I guess...

Nope. Still think it's a lame JA. Misses the point of RDM being a mindless job in party play, and the enfeebling magic issues already discussed to death.

Jesus christ, have you not heard of AOE move that can be blocked with shadow, also NIN SJ allows you to equip Joytoy/Justice sword, which will make up of the accuracy issue and help you to build TP faster.

Death Blossom lowers target's mob magic evasion, it has been reported to significantly lower TAU HNM's resistance and make it possible for BRD and RDM to land elegy/slow without elemental seal.

[Pooky]

No1 force you to play melee RDM, it simply opens up another playstyle for RDM. As mentioned before you will need 2 type of RDM in tank party, the one who is geared towards melee and focus on magical debuffs unless he/she also has Murgleis (with Composure on, it will take too long to cast haste and refresh on other party member), and the other RDM should be resposible for refresh/haste/debuff duties.

So basically, you have to waste a pt spot for a support job that isn't supporting the party, instead is poking something they shouldn't be poking with a stick that takes months of work and millions of gil to acquire; all in hopes that the other support job (who's doing all the work) can be a tiny bit more effective.

Instead of, I don't know, fixing resistances so that the gear/merits I spent almost 3 years acquiring isn't totally useless?

Somehow, that doesn't compute. Sorry if I'm missing something here.

[Ahlah]

So basically, you have to waste a pt spot for a support job that isn't supporting the party, instead is pking something they shouldn't be poking with a stick that takes months of work and millions of gil to acquire; all in hopes that the other support job (who's doing all the work) can be a tiny bit more effective.

Instead of, I don't know, fixing resistances so that the gear/merits I spent almost 3 years acquiring isn't totally useless?

Somehow, that doesn't compute. Sorry if I'm missing something here.

You are not wasting a party sport, RDM is such a versatile job. The melee RDM can basically throw out emergency cure/buffs and helps absord aga spell damage. BRD can even sub WHM if enspell/DB is good enough to replace elemental seal. On the other hand the melee RDM is actually debuffing HNM and make it easier to land slow/paralyze etc, which in turn helps your tank to keep shadow up.

[TybudX]

You're not missing anything. There is a vocal group of retards who seem to think that RDM should be a front line attacker, and that we just don't get it.

[Shinta]

It seems pretty obvious that SCH is the magic only generalist and RDM is the generalist including melee now (and always). So, yeah ... melee has always been a part of the deal with RDM, but this JA doesn't help it in any way I can see really.

I mean ... enspells? Seriously, to claim that RDM was never intended to melee under any circumstances is ridiculous. The job was always intended to melee but just has never had enough of an incentive to do it. That's the only real reason RDM got Convert, to melee.

[Amastacia]

You are not wasting a party sport, RDM is such a versatile job. The melee RDM can basically throw out emergency cure/buffs and helps absord aga spell damage. BRD can even sub WHM if enspell/DB is good enough to replace elemental seal. On the other hand the melee RDM is actually debuffing HNM and make it easier to land slow/paralyze etc, which in turn helps your tank to keep shadow up.

Why do you waste so many perfectly good electrons posting? Shit, someone has to pay for storage space for this dreck, and I pity the fool.

I can't even remember the last time you've said something worthwhile.

I mean, there are some people who have fundamentally out-to-lunch views on game mechanics, but you, sir, take the cake.

I'm amazed and impressed that so many people attempt to debate rationally with you, only for it to go in one of your ears and straight out the other. Don't think I've ever seen you admit you're wrong or have no fucking clue what you're talking about, which is pretty much always.

I'm sure someone will get on my nuts for interrupting this precious discussion, but fuck it.

In the words of Sath:
Fuck. Shut it the up.

[Ahlah]

Seriously show me the flaw in my statement or keep your mouth shut. If your IQ is too low to understand high level information ask politely. No point acting like a bitter 90 year old widow.

[evilpaul]

Can someone do a 'zoom' on the last line of Amastacia's post? lol