Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

[Shin Volcano]

Wow i just had a thought, What if this update makes Enhancing sword become Popular again o_O (price spiked)

[TybudX]

Seriously show me the flaw in my statement or keep your mouth shut. If your IQ is too low to understand high level information ask politely. No point acting like a bitter 90 year old widow.

Dude, this isn't the Twilight Zone. It's not all of us speaking gibberish, it's you.

[Ahlah]

Like I said before, if you think what I have said is wrong prove it. Otherwise keep your mouth shut.

[TybudX]

OK. Yuo think RDM should be able to melee on HNMs? That's pretty much the gist of it, right?

[Amastacia]

Seriously show me the flaw in my statement or keep your mouth shut. If your IQ is too low to understand high level information ask politely. No point acting like a bitter 90 year old widow.

You are not wasting a party sport, RDM is such a versatile job. The melee RDM can basically throw out emergency cure/buffs and helps absord aga spell damage. BRD can even sub WHM if enspell/DB is good enough to replace elemental seal. On the other hand the melee RDM is actually debuffing HNM and make it easier to land slow/paralyze etc, which in turn helps your tank to keep shadow up.

Let's see...

You are wasting a party spot, as a melee RDM is not good enough at any niche to justify using in an endgame situation, where job specialization is a fundamental benefit for smooth fights.

You shouldn't need to help absorb aga spell damage. Between Shell V and magic damage mitigation gear on tanks, it should never really be life-threatening. And if you have melees on a mob that uses a lot of AoEs with damage divided among the number of people in range, adding one more body that isn't doing anything critical doesn't improve the situation.

A melee RDM is feeding a mob TP, and generally not using any Subtle Blow gear, so that mob is going to have TP about 1.33 times more often than the RDM. A goodly quantity of the shit endgame mobs do that is annoying is TP based. QED.

The -MEva effect from Death Blossom is not that strong. Certainly not as strong as you'd like to believe it is. Things that are not already heavily resistant will continue to not be heavily resistant. Things that are will likewise remain as they are. If you start quoting otherWiki to defend yourself, save us all the trouble of inventing Stab Over IP and just go jump off a bridge.

I want you to do me a favor. List off every endgame mob you can think of where landing Slow/Paralyze/etc. is troublesome, and having those debuffs on makes a significant impact to the smoothness of the fight. After you do that, make a subset of that list containing all mobs which do not frequently make use of highly annoying TP moves when given leave to do (the sort that might have a greater negative impact on the manageability of the fight than a slight decrease in elemental resistance and MEva would have in the positive column). I'm having trouble thinking of any.

[Izzy]

Don't even waste your time arguing with Ahlah. Take a look back at his previous crusades and threadshitting.

[Amastacia]

That's the only post I intend to make taking him seriously.

[Skjie]

Update isn't out yet and we're already starting to see the genius red mages who think they can change the face of the game if only they were allowed to melee at HNMs. When Death Blossom came out, my Einherjar LS let me try meleeing for a run. My accuracy wasn't so bad, but at the end of the day, the amount of stuff that I had to give up just to get that weaponskill off wasn't worth it. A new enspell isn't going to change that outcome.

Also, if you think you can carry a good set of melee gear and still have all the casting gear you should have, you're wrong and have already lost any credibility you could've had.

[Correction]

Where's that thread where RDM melee was shot in the fucking face? It was on BG wasn't it? Tyche or someone with kclub and speed belt failing to outparse a naked mnk?

[Tythera]

I remember that, I want to say it was someone like Wresh or some such, think it was a taru and they frequented KI or Alla (I could be way off)

[Shin Volcano]

Most here are going to look silly if en-spells do anything over 50 damage..

[Correction]

I remember that, I want to say it was someone like Wresh or some such, think it was a taru and they frequented KI or Alla (I could be way off)

I remember it was someone from KI insisting RDM melee was 'better than MNK' or something assuming a perfect set of hundred-million+ gil gear, then someone from BG actually put that gear together and couldn't outparse a MNK wearing nothing but his weapon. Just to shut him up.

[rlas549]

Why blow a support spot on a melee rdm? Just have them switch to cor if you want to help the blms.

[Kerberoz]

Why blow a support spot on a melee rdm? Just have them switch to cor if you want to help the blms.

This. COR can enhance their macc or mab, give equal or better refresh, and contribute more damage than RDM without feeding TP.

[Raineer]

Most here are going to look silly if en-spells do anything over 50 damage..

If they do over 40 I'll be happy, as that's a high percentage improvement even with the multi-hit nerf. However not many (sane) people in the thread said anything about meleeing on HNM.

For those of us who have fought enough HNM's in a lifetime to actually be silly enough to pull out a weapon and melee fucking around, does anyone remember what happened? Oh yeah, they get resisted badly. The -element would have to be crazy strong to do anything to fix that, and I imagine it's like BLM and NIN where you're not weakening resistance to the element you are using.

I've never seen Amastacia so mad, I quite enjoyed that.

situational edit to my stance: If they do ~80 and the -element actually were to help this not be resisted on HNM's, you bet your sweet ass I am gearing 2x ceremonial and demanding a spot in the alliance where I can engage (and debuff/refresh). That is NOT a trivial amount of damage.

Caveat? I have no belief this is what they do. I think they will be 40 and debuff elements exactly like NIN+BLM.

[Charismatic]

We were promised updates to RDM. Forgive us for hoping they wouldn't be shit.

You're forgiven, now will ya shut the fuck up and stop whining?

[Arthars]

the initial attacks is just a way to bring back Bune's presence

and other than that, SE is screwing our end game by going to introduce rdm to the melee scene and make (a decent amount of) rdms forgetting their primary role

so what if it can do 50 enspell damage.........like it matters really

49 damage will be resisted by shits like cerberus still

[Militant]

What the fuck is the use arguing a point over a future update/adjustment if you are supposedly "retired" from the game anyway?

[Ophannus]

hornet needles are gonna be popular

[Invictusx]

There are only a handful of ways to improve magic accuracy in this game. Elemental seal is great but only applies to user plus it has 10mins recast. Threnodies only target specific elements, have limited effect and getting the spell to stick on HNM is as bad as casting elegy without elemental seal. Magic burst grants 30% magic accuracy and potency, which requires good coordination between melee and mage. Stutter step is a decent concept unfortunately DNC accuracy issue vs HNM and excessive TP feeding negate its benefit. COR can boost magic accuracy at the cost of one roll.

RDM now have access to JA/spells which can potentially boost the performance of all magical attack and debuffs. The best part is RDM actually get to melee HNM. SE even take care of some important issues associated with RDM melee - Composure boosts accuracy and prolongs spell effect i.e. RDM can focus on hitting mob to build TP. Auspice solves the issue of excessive TP feeding.

The one time SE actually did something right to make RDM melee work, ppl whine because they rather have enspells which add 40 damage per hit and proc on multihit weapons so that they can kill DC-EM mob faster.

Don't forget ninjutsu! That lowers the mobs elemental resistance to the opposite element casted as well >.>