Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

[Correction]

It's only unkillable because of people like you.

Yes yes, it's my fault RDMs are terrible at melee and AV is unkillable.

I charge $300/hour for my psychiatric evaluation services, btw.

[Raineer]

It's only unkillable because of people like you.

Wow.

Yeah, in case you're wondering...people like you bitching on allakhazam is why we get shit JA's like this lol

THANKS!

[Ultimagi]

I've never used Allakhazam, thanks.
For the last fucking time, if you don't like it, that's too bad, quit bitching. Square-Enix gave you exactly what they said they would.

[Spider-Dan]

So a job that is already well-balanced and extremely effective gets a new toy to play with... a situational toy that takes nothing away from their existing abilities. And this job's population howls in anger and disgust.

I will say the same thing I say every update: if you are an RDM or a NIN, you should throw a wild party every time another update comes and goes and you don't get hit with the nerf bat. That alone is cause for celebration.

[Hyan]

I think now would be the time for a NIN argument

[Nirokun!]

I have blm (and upcoming sch) for magic damage. While blm cant do hateless nukes (although the -enmity set is deliciously potent), it really suffices in that there arent really situations that call for TP-less, hate-less magical damage. There are fights, though, that lend themselves to TP-less, hate-less physical damage. And smn does that better than any other job (PUP cant really do it as easily as smn, because of the HP/deactivate necessity whereas a smn can just use release.)

Magical BP are subject to resist, just like physical BP are subject to missing (variably). Physical can crit, magical can MB. But in situations where you can melee for TP to SC, do you really bring SMN? That's why I've had the steady focus on the physical side of things (and it lends itself best to my job list.) I do plan on eventually capping my smn Tier2 merits, and I'll enjoy this change when I do

[Raineer]

I've never used Allakhazam, thanks.
For the last fucking time, if you don't like it, that's too bad, quit bitching. Square-Enix gave you exactly what they said they would.

No one has forced you to read the thread either, you're basically making up your own arguments and then arguing against them. You're arguing that RDM's should be tanking, and the update has nothing which boosts RDM tanking. But you're upset that we would have preferred a different adjustment.

I didn't know I wasn't allowed to say "hey I would have preferred an enfeebling adjustment instead of a melee boost"

Your statement is "RDMS CAN TANK". Which doesn't even fall in the realm of the discussion.

And then everyone else is saying "I AM HAPPY YOU DONT LIKE THE ADJUSTMENT BECAUSE RDM IS OVERPOWERED" and I'm pretty sure there is a hurr somewhere in there are well. To those people, hey you too can level an RDM. Half the comments are "if you want to melee then level a melee job", well if you want to be overpowered then level RDM.

[Ultimagi]

You're arguing that RDM's can be tanking and that there is a use to this update

Fixed.

and the update has nothing which boosts RDM tanking.

Did you even read my post?

But you're upset that we are incessantly bitching that we would have preferred a different adjustment.

Fixed again.

[Raineer]

Fixed.

Did you even read my post?

Fixed again.

Which of us is incessantly bitching again?

So what's your stance here... That Composure (assuming it can be clicked off) helps tanking by increasing the duration of refresh? I know that's totally worth extending your Utsusemi timers if it can't be clicked off.

Or are you assuming that Enthunder II will provide you the extra hate you need to keep hate off the others? (please let it be this)

All I said is that I would have preferred an enfeebling adjustment. You're the one going off the deep end post after post.

[Ultimagi]

You must have skimmed the last 20 pages of bitching. If you're not going to read, why bother blindly replying?

[Samuraiking]

You must have skimmed the last 20 pages of bitching. If you're not going to read, why bother blindly replying?

Ultimagi is clearly trolling, no one can be this retarded.. right? Fuck it, i'll bite.

RDM tanks do not get hate from meleeing. They don't. Even if they engage it's for that 1/500 hits they parry, it's not because their 250 sword skill in tank gear is going to land a hit, not over 0 dmg anyway.

IF you are tanking on rdm you should be treated as a tank, and the party rdm should be haste/refreshing you as if your a pld, composure in this case serves no purpose with the extended length.

If you want to give extra macc to the mages with ur ws go for it once a fight when u actually get tp. Hell throw up enspell II and do it even more, but neither enspell II or composure will make u hit enough to get any hate from it, it will only be to help the blms.

While nothing is wrong with that, saying that it benefits you as a tank is ignorant. Watch that buddy of yours tank next time, and watch the spells he casts, that's how he is keeping hate. Come back when you actually learn what ur talking about.

[Meian]

Additonal effects (enspell/etc.) don't give hate (which I think is why Excalibur isn't as uber as it could have been; still sexy though).

[perdition]

So a job that is already well-balanced and extremely effective gets a new toy to play with... a situational toy that takes nothing away from their existing abilities. And this job's population howls in anger and disgust.

I will say the same thing I say every update: if you are an RDM or a NIN, you should throw a wild party every time another update comes and goes and you don't get hit with the nerf bat. That alone is cause for celebration.

What is there to nerf on rdm?

The only thing you could realistically nerf, without gutting the job completely is it's ability to solo, and maybe reduce hate from spells like sleep and dispel for tanking. Or let's remove fastcast or take away stoneskin? Trust me, if anything was broken about rdm, SE would have nerfed it years ago. As it stands, RDM after years is getting an update that is situational at best, and lol at worse. It is somewhat insulting to anyone who has been playing rdm for a long time, and has been waiting years to see some new tricks up our sleeves. Sure Rdm is versatile, but ANYTHING but broken or even close to overpowered. Shit, even nowadays there are a ton of mobs that make our enfeebling useless.

Redmage doesn't need a toy, it doesn't really need anything, but if we get something, I'd hope that is is not a JA that gives us melee ability, in exchange for making us a more ineffective caster. The verdict is still out on how it will turn out, but from what I am reading, it is not what I was looking for.

[Ultimagi]

RDM tanks do not get hate from meleeing. They don't. Even if they engage it's for that 1/500 hits they parry, it's not because their 250 sword skill in tank gear is going to land a hit, not over 0 dmg anyway.

I know how tanking works, thanks. If you're tanking, you generally are engaged, however, and you gain TP from getting hit too.

IF you are tanking on rdm you should be treated as a tank, and the party rdm should be haste/refreshing you as if your a pld, composure in this case serves no purpose with the extended length.

The only reason Red Mage tanks do not Refresh or Haste themselves is because their support usually has more time and MP to spare. But with increased duration, it becomes more efficient for the tank to do it themselves.

If you want to give extra macc to the mages with ur ws go for it once a fight when u actually get tp. Hell throw up enspell II and do it even more, but neither enspell II or composure will make u hit enough to get any hate from it, it will only be to help the blms.

This is a useful tactic that is being completely overlooked, and you forgot the skillchain.

While nothing is wrong with that, saying that it benefits you as a tank is ignorant. Watch that buddy of yours tank next time, and watch the spells he casts, that's how he is keeping hate. Come back when you actually learn what ur talking about.

Saying this Red Mage update is useless is ignorant, come back when you actually learn what you're talking about.

[Infini]

The new Enspells alone are nice but RDM really couldve done with more. Part of the reason RDM is bad at meleeing is poor base melee and WS damage at times along with lack of equip. Now if the enspells had the added effect of a debuff as well as alrering a WS's elemental damage to the element in use Ie Enfire II active makes all WS's Fire Elemental Based tho not actually altering the WS's SC property itself. This would make RDM able to do better frontline damage and make it more worthwhile to melee. As for the Composure they Really should change that to work on all Party Members and not just self that just makes the JA useless altogether cept for buffing yerself outta combat.

Also the enspell's could have the added effect of for example:
Enfire II: Enamnesia/enplague
Enblizzard II: Enbind/Enparalyse
Enstone II: Enpetrify/Enslow
EnaeroII: Engravity/Ensilence
Enwater II: Enpoison
Enthunder II: Enstun

As for the SMN stuff while it aint as Wow as the WHM at least its fixing SOME of the bugs tho they still gotta long way to go to fix all the major issues still.

[Meian]

Also the enspell's could have the added effect of for example:
Enfire II: Enamnesia/enplague
Enblizzard II: Enbind/Enparalyse
Enstone II: Enpetrify/Enslow
EnaeroII: Engravity/Ensilence
Enwater II: Enpoison
Enthunder II: Enstun

No

[perdition]

Now if the enspells had the added effect of a debuff as well as alrering a WS's elemental damage to the element in use Ie Enfire II active makes all WS's Fire Elemental Based tho not actually altering the WS's SC property itself.

This would make it useful, and important for rdm to melee HNM mobs. It would also give a reason for there to be tier II enspells. Say your having a tough time landing enfeebs, have the rdm engage with enblizzard II and land para that way. With the mythic ws, this could be a way to improve rdm, and give it an actual purpose to melee on the front lines.

That being said, lol some of those enspell II abilities would break redmage completely lol.

[Samuraiking]

I know how tanking works, thanks. If you're tanking, you generally are engaged, however, and you gain TP from getting hit too.

If your gaining 100tp decently from getting hit, well, your a waste of a tank, and mp sink and should go back to being a party mage.

The only reason Red Mage tanks do not Refresh or Haste themselves is because their support usually has more time and MP to spare. But with increased duration, it becomes more efficient for the tank to do it themselves.

It's not more efficient. What's more effecient is for the party mage to keep his cycles up while the TANK focuses on tanking. Jesus.

This is a useful tactic that is being completely overlooked, and you forgot the skillchain.

I didn't forget about the sc, if you are tanking properly you aren't getting hti enough to properly sc with other people. Once or twice a fight does not count.

Saying this Red Mage update is useless is ignorant, come back when you actually learn what you're talking about.

Nice job with the grammar correction, because we all know those are completly valid in a rdm argument and pertain to the subject at hand. Quote where I said this update was useless? It's useless to rdm tanks, and party red mages yes, but i'm sure plenty of campaign rdms will enjoy it.

I'm pretty much done with you, you have brought no argument back, you have just expressed your ignorance into further detail. Enjoy being laughed at.

[Bregor]

Enthunder II: Enstun

Oh God I lol'd.

[Ultimagi]

Well, if you don't think the update is useless, why are you arguing? You're just being a condescending dick. I will most certainly be using this during Campaign, also for soloing many other weak things. But to say it is useless in a party or tanking is just wrong, I'm sorry. If you're the only person you need to Refresh, which happens often, you pop it for Refresh and take it off. There's even a use for a party situation! Oh my god! If you can't think outside the box, I feel sorry for you, but don't start talking shit to me.