Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

[Infini]

Oh God I lol'd.

Yeah i know it would kinda break it but I dont know of any other Water or Thunder Debuffs besides Poison/Stun for that element. Point i suppose im makin tho is that if they want RDM to melee more they should be able to do so WITHOUT gimping their main purpose as enfeeblers.

[perdition]

If anything, the melee stance should allow rdm to cast faster while engaged to mobs, making it more feasible to cast and melee at the same time. If I am hitting a mob, and trying to do decent dmg, I would never be able to keep (Wouldn't be able to keep up anyway) up while casting buffs and debuffs at the same time. That being said, if u allowed me to cast everything but stoneskin, and utsusemi faster, I'd be okay with that.Throw in swords that worked like elemental staves at the same time, and then you'd have an update that I am happy with.

[Kaslo]

I know how tanking works, thanks. If you're tanking, you generally are engaged, however, and you gain TP from getting hit too.

Do you? because on anything worthwhile a tank generally isn't engaged because they will be feeding TP. This goes moreso if it's a RDM tank.

[Samuraiking]

Well, if you don't think the update is useless, why are you arguing?

You said it was amazing for tanking, or at the very least, it has a use, in this situation it doesn't.

Everything has some use no matter how miniscule it is. The use you are so valiantly defending however is not useful and in fact harmful. The only half decent length use it could be used for is phalanx, however it's a 2second recast for only 21mp, would be a waste of time to hit it and cancel it when you can just recast it. Not to mention the extended timer on utsu which you will no doubt have to recast in between the buffs you want to use it with.

You really have shown that you have never tanked on rdm, nor payed attention when your "friend" tanks on his rdm, if you understood how it worked, you would not be arguing this.

People we're saying it's useless because the only decent place is has is really campaign, and maybe some odd uses during soloing, which not many rdms do. You brought up an unrelated argument about rdm tanking, and it wasn't even one that was right, so you lost both ways, I really do not understand you at all, maybe you just love arguing even if your wrong.

I feel sorry for you, but don't start talking shit to me.

So you can talk shit to other people and call them ignorant for expressing an opinion but I come and correct you while talking shit back to you and it's wrong?

brb, going to go make some food, feel free to defend yourself, though i'm 99% sure it will be something else retarded.

[Ultimagi]

The problem is that Square-Enix wants Red Mage to do a bit of everything, but the players only use it for Healing, Enhancing, and Enfeebling magic. These adjustments are trying to get players to use Red Mage in new ways, the ways they were originally intended.

Edit: They're not expressing an opinion, they're whining that they don't get exactly what they want.

[Infini]

Throw in a sword that worked like elemental staves at the same time, and then you'd have an update that I am happy with.

Fixed. Cant swap swords while meleeing since itd reset TP and besides itd mean inventory -8 AGAIN for those with staves+Grips x.x

[Ultimagi]

Murgleis!

[Amastacia]

So a job that is already well-balanced and extremely effective gets a new toy to play with... a situational toy that takes nothing away from their existing abilities. And this job's population howls in anger and disgust.

I will say the same thing I say every update: if you are an RDM or a NIN, you should throw a wild party every time another update comes and goes and you don't get hit with the nerf bat. That alone is cause for celebration.

Wait, what?

You lost me.

[perdition]

Fixed. Cant swap swords while meleeing since itd reset TP and besides itd mean inventory -8 AGAIN for those with staves+Grips x.x

True.

[SenseiFF11]

IF you are tanking on rdm you should be treated as a tank, and the party rdm should be haste/refreshing you as if your a pld.

False. That is where you forget the difference between RDM tank and others tank. RDM tank should be able to enhance himself while tanking, and this is what make RDM tanking and kiting special: They need less support.

[Ultimagi]

Now that I think about it, Murgleis is the only sword that provides a sizable chunk of Magic Accuracy that it wouldn't be taking much of a hit from high quality staves. Square-Enix should really add better swords.

False. That is where you forget the difference between RDM tank and others tank. RDM tank should be able to enhance himself while tanking, and this is what make RDM tank and kiter special: They need less support.

And now they need even less support!

[Spider-Dan]

What is there to nerf on rdm?

Convert recast?
Refresh recast/duration/cost?
Existence of Cure4?

The only thing you could realistically nerf, without gutting the job completely[...]

Because Squenix would never gut a job completely, right?

Trust me, if anything was broken about rdm, SE would have nerfed it years ago.

In my opinion, the only thing preventing Squenix from nerfing RDM (or NIN, or SAM) is the RNG debacle. Since then, they've chosen to balance via megabuff (see: 2h update, SAM update, SCH update, probably WHM update). And RDMs still want to bitch and moan.

Like I said, be happy that Squenix is deciding to inject WHM with weapons-grade steroids instead of just saying, "RDMs are replacing WHMs? OK, remove Cure4 from RDM and double the recast on Convert."

As it stands, RDM after years is getting an update that is situational at best, and lol at worse. It is somewhat insulting to anyone who has been playing rdm for a long time, and has been waiting years to see some new tricks up our sleeves.

No, what's really insulting is for RDMs (that has consistently been top-3 in demand over the last six years, along with BRD and NIN) to start complaining that the completely unnecessary buff they just received isn't quite good enough.

To reverse the rejoinder from RDMs: if you want to play a job that gets lots of update goodies, try switching to a job that isn't already one of the best in the game.

[Samuraiking]

False. That is where you forget the difference between RDM tank and others tank. RDM tank should be able to enhance himself while tanking, and this is what make RDM tanking and kiting special: They need less support.

Are we talking lowman or general situations? In a general situation, I assume were talking about sea and king HNMs with normal support. I never said rdm couldn't enhance themselves(haste, refresh) I simply said why would you make them do it themselves when you have the proper support. Lowman fight strats do not apply to general fights. In general with normal support rdm shouldn't have to waste time with refresh/hastes, i'd rather have them focusing more on hate gain.

[Khajit]

RDM had the single best update of all time. Name ANY buff to a single job that can compare to rdm getting refresh. 6ish years and it's still the top source of mp regeneration barring a 2 hour or relic bard?

[Ultimagi]

You keep specifying situations that aren't normal or don't count, then saying it's completely useless for everything. That's like saying, "In the context of an entirely English speaking community, learning any other language is completely useless for everything."

[Samuraiking]

You keep specifying situations that aren't normal or don't count, then saying it's completely useless for everything. That's like saying, "In the context of an entirely English speaking community, learning any other language is completely useless for everything."

Everything has some use no matter how miniscule it is. The use you are so valiantly defending however is not useful and in fact harmful.

It's useless to rdm tanks, and party red mages yes, but i'm sure plenty of campaign rdms will enjoy it.

In case you didn't understand, the "situation" was refering to another "miniscule" account. I am refering to the usefullness as a whole of all the rdms, not the 1% that solo and the 1% that rdm tank, muchless the lower % that do it in lowman groups instead of having "proper" support.

I commend you for trying to catch me, but the fact is you are just mad that I have corrected you and you stand in the wrong. Have fun digging through my posts.

[Amastacia]

In my opinion, the only thing preventing Squenix from nerfing RDM (or NIN, or SAM) is the RNG debacle. Since then, they've chosen to balance via megabuff (see: 2h update, SAM update, SCH update, probably WHM update). And RDMs still want to bitch and moan.

<snip>

No, what's really insulting is for RDMs (that has consistently been top-3 in demand over the last six years, along with BRD and NIN) to start complaining that the completely unnecessary buff they just received isn't quite good enough.

To reverse the rejoinder from RDMs: if you want to play a job that gets lots of update goodies, try switching to a job that isn't already one of the best in the game.

You and I must not be playing the same game, especially if that last sentence applies to NIN as well.

NIN *was* one of the best jobs in the game. It's been consigned to mediocrity quite thoroughly by PLD and 2h updates.

[perdition]

Convert recast?
Refresh recast/duration/cost?
Existence of Cure4?


Because Squenix would never gut a job completely, right?


In my opinion, the only thing preventing Squenix from nerfing RDM (or NIN, or SAM) is the RNG debacle. Since then, they've chosen to balance via megabuff (see: 2h update, SAM update, SCH update, probably WHM update). And RDMs still want to bitch and moan.

Like I said, be happy that Squenix is deciding to inject WHM with weapons-grade steroids instead of just saying, "RDMs are replacing WHMs? OK, remove Cure4 from RDM and double the recast on Convert."


No, what's really insulting is for RDMs (that has consistently been top-3 in demand over the last six years, along with BRD and NIN) to start complaining that the completely unnecessary buff they just received isn't quite good enough.

To reverse the rejoinder from RDMs: if you want to play a job that gets lots of update goodies, try switching to a job that isn't already one of the best in the game.

Lol

Anyway...

Convert is a 10 minute spell and even with full merits it's only gonna' take you down to 8 minutes 20 seconds... yea.. broken.

Brd get refresh and it doesn't cost them mp at all. Aside from it would be RETARDED to increase the cost of refresh because rdm have haste to cast, depending on situation, pro/shell/phalanx II to cast, and this is all in one cycle, on who knows how many different pt members, on top of being expected to cure and enfeeble lol. It don't take a rocket scientist to understand why we have convert in the 1st place, see rdm burn up alot of mp in a short period of time buddy.

Cure IV has hate associated with it, so no rdm is going to be overly eager to abuse the power of cure IV, and it's not all that strong of a spell, 400+ hp is not nearly broken.

As far as your demand thing, this game has ebbed and flowed over the past six years. Redmage is consistently useful, but over the years i have seen many different needs/ desires for pt's ranging from manaburn, to rng burn, to 2h weapon user becoming incredibly desired. If you have refresh and dispel, you will always be wanted, so cor, brd and rdm will always have a purpose in pt. You will not see anyone saying "WE MUST HAVE A RDM" in exp nowadays, there are too many different setups that are effective, so your whole point is blown.

And switch to a job that isn't one of the best...
I leveled pup to 75, long before it was even half way functional, I know both ends of the spectrum. The point isn't that RDM needs to be buffed, it's that if we get an update make it useful and not something REDMAGE'S are not interested in.

Also, Blm, Pld, Whm, Rdm, Brd, and a few other jobs have very clearly outlined roles in a pt or alliance, this is why they are popular. Not because they are broken, alot of the new jobs are complex and some won't be desired in an alliance because at the end of the day, we will need a tank, a refresher, a healer, a nuker and a DD to win a fight.

Your logic is flawed rdm is hardly broken, rather it's effectively functional.

[Ultimagi]

I won't bother, its obvious you're just getting satisfaction out of condescending others.

I have to agree that Ninja has taken quite a beating. Anything it can do, another job can do better. But I really have no idea how they can fix it without making it broken again.

[perdition]

Convert recast?
Refresh recast/duration/cost?
Existence of Cure4?


Because Squenix would never gut a job completely, right?


In my opinion, the only thing preventing Squenix from nerfing RDM (or NIN, or SAM) is the RNG debacle. Since then, they've chosen to balance via megabuff (see: 2h update, SAM update, SCH update, probably WHM update). And RDMs still want to bitch and moan.

Like I said, be happy that Squenix is deciding to inject WHM with weapons-grade steroids instead of just saying, "RDMs are replacing WHMs? OK, remove Cure4 from RDM and double the recast on Convert."


No, what's really insulting is for RDMs (that has consistently been top-3 in demand over the last six years, along with BRD and NIN) to start complaining that the completely unnecessary buff they just received isn't quite good enough.

To reverse the rejoinder from RDMs: if you want to play a job that gets lots of update goodies, try switching to a job that isn't already one of the best in the game.

You and I must not be playing the same game, especially if that last sentence applies to NIN as well.

NIN *was* one of the best jobs in the game. It's been consigned to mediocrity quite thoroughly by PLD and 2h updates.

Amen, Ninja needs utsusemi san asap.