Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

[Cow_k]

In before people bitch about things that they haven't even tested yet on a job that needed nothing yet got something anyway.

Oh wait.

[Ahlah]

How is Ouryu annoying at all? It was one of the easiest most boring fights i've ever done on BLM, lol. Sleep, Nuke in Air, Sleep, Nuke in Air, Sleep, god I almost fell asleep every time.

It's annoying because you can pretty much beat Bahamut in 2mins and still have to spend 20mins on Ouryu. Don't see why a LS will choose to spend 20mins when they can easily shorten the fight by adding another RDM in their tank party.

To Septimus:
RDM is still the best tank for HNM that hit slowly and do not reset hate. Landing enfeebling on TAU HNM used to be tricky without elemental seal, may be SE added all these new spells and JA to allow RDM to land enfeebling without elemental seal. They probably just try to create a new way to play the job.

[Kaslo]

RDM didn't really need anything so EnSpell2 may help for when melee soloing...

but Composure? really? Why would a RDM ever use it? Increase my Ni timer while meleeing? No thanks.

[Septimus]

Outside of the fact that horrible RDM's will now feel justified in meleeing "because SE said they could", there is a ton of over-reacting on the side of normal people. This isn't the end of days, it's a crappy update that most people won't use, like Footwork.

/shrug

I will just wait for tomorrow's update notes on this rollercoaster, and overall it's still a very good update so far.

Because it has been 5 years since RDM got anything applicable from Square and WHM got a "WTF" update a few days ago. If this RDM update had happened in the December patch, people would have been depressed and moved on. Instead, they wait until after what may possibly be the most innovated update for any mage job in this game (not counting the advent of SCH which wouldn't be an "update") and are all "hey fuck your Joyeuse and Utsusemi". This is going to make people slightly cranky.

Hey, tier 2 debuff update wasn't bad at all! *points the Ninja crying in the corner.*

Hey wow, spells that are slightly better than existing spells for 3-6 times the cost. (Meanwhile Carnage Elegy is still 50% slow effect.)

So what you're saying is even though there is a useful application of this ability you'd rather just get mad about it

Because it still fucks over your spells (cures, enfeebles, lolnukes, enhancing spells cast on anyone else) that have nothing to do with what gets benefitted. And yes, I very well may be overreacting, but look at what WHM got in this update and tell me that this is even close to a fraction of that.

And once more, there is no garuntee that you will be able to click it off.

[Khajit]

From now on every job other than SCH, SAM, and WHM reserves the right to bitch every update about how they didn't get an update as amazing as WHM got.

[Darkyrm]

I was carefully expecting something really modest for Rdm, not even expecting it to be so useful that made Rdm be able to melee in a party (which im not interested in), I really only wanted something to melee random shit solo as Rdm or with 2-3 friends where I can put my lolmelee gear and have some fun.

Problem is that the update seems to try to fulfill that idea but the restrictions imposed make them seems kind of worthless...

:: The Rdm-OOOOOOOOPS update ::

* Composture:

+ Increases Accuracy: Accuracy is allways juicy so that really put a smile on my face.
+ Increased duration of buffs: Nice I can bust my Haste-Enspell and dont have to recast it as much to just care about beating mobs.

- Recast time penalty: OOOOOOOOPS, just when you think it will fit like a glove your Rdm/Nin soloing-lowman random beat-them-ups you utsusemi timers just got fucked!!!! So its an ability made to solo that you dont want to use while soloing as Rdm/Nin!!! Fail!!!

* Enspells:

+ So many years expecting them, finally here!!!

- Firt hit only: OOOOOOOOPS, just when you think you got a nice boost to non stop Blau/Joy - Joy/Justice multi non-stop elmental damage, en-spell II only activates on first hit!!!

So its a boost to enspell damage that renders every Rdm favourite Rdm/Nin (or even Joy-Justice solo sword) ineficient in comparision with Enspell I multihit setups. Fail !!!

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Of course canceling Composture after casting the spells you need comes to mind to try to save something from the JA, but losing the Accuracy boost puts a bad taste in that, and if duration is only extended like 2X I dont think I would even bother with that.

¿? The only think that could save the JA is how large are the boost penalties to each stat, if its 10acc / 50% recast penalty / 2x duration, it will be something to toss it to the trash as soon as its released.

Accuracy: To make this JA worth it the accuracy boost should cover the sword/dagger B skill against other jobs, 22 accuracy would boost it around base A/A- 1handed skill jobs, problem is that melee jobs get a ton of gear options better than Rdm Acc wise plus 2h handed jobs get additional extra boost from extra DEX bonus accuracy.

So I would say that a boost not in the 35-50 range is going to be dissapointing. (I know some will think thats insane but taking into account rdm base acc + difference of gear choices and traits between jobs makes it a reasonable figure to make it decent)

Duration: 2x doesnt cut it, 3x or more would make things look better.

Recast penalty: This is the key point, if the penalty is as bad as seigan its not going to be worth using the JA, but I think I could live giving up Rdm innate fastcast traits (10%) and work with every other job timers to get a decent accuracy and duration boost.

¿? Enspell II damage: Again for Enspell II line to be worth it relies on how large is the damage is, activation on only the first hit makes that you need the damage to be a lot higher to beat Enspell I line.

- Favourite /nin double weapon is sub optimal since you dont get en-spell on extra hits.
- If you use only a dagger you get a better delay, but lose dualwield bonus, and extra damage and tp from offhand multihit weapon and the best Rdm WS Evisceration, so doesnt seem like any extra damage Enspell II is going to do is going to cover that.

So seeing as you dont want to not dualwield because you lose so many things, Enspell 2 has to make more damage than, /nin Enspell I setups to make it worth it, this needs some math but seeing as how a Blau/Joy makes 54-71 enspell damage round with a solid but not optimal setup (af1+af2+hollow+active fencers) without adding day bonus, this needs some math but I would say eyeballing it that if it does not do 2.5x - 3x damage the boost from the new spells are not going to be worth it.

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So all in all it seems like a mess that only really good boosts can make it decent, but Im allready expecting a 10acc/+50%recast/2x length and Enspells 2 doing 1.5x damage.

Hey! At least I will have a JA to use iddling in whitegate and look cool...

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Now theres the idea that Composture is to make Rdms land hits around hard stuff to land Death Blossom and at the same time use Enspell II to lower some element resistance...







Well, I dont like that idea at all.

[Antithesis]

I really cant understand why everyone is bitching so much about this. This RDM seems miles above Footwork. I don't really that is a reason to say the update note was useless.

[Gergall]

SC + MB adjustments aren't job adjustments..!! = the secret 3rd half, coming tomorrow!

This. If they are fixing SC/MB, it won't be part of a job adjustments update. If done right that could be a boost for BLM.

SE has paced themselves out for 2 or 3 more update notes before April 8th. The only thing we know for sure is MMM update. Some other surprise is waiting for us.

[Acturus]

smn has had a lot of love (just small things) that have added up to big thing in the long run

smn needs a *fix* to make it better for merit pts thats all i can think of that is wrong with smn.

we dont need end game fix... this update adds more to end game. we can solo just fine. what is wrong with the job? we cant epeen and do the 30k dmg in 1min a drk can do?

we cant do 30k/hr in a merit pt? really wtf is wrong with the job?
things smn have going for them

Wut?

The game has evolved into a level of speed that SMN cannot hope to match. I don't care how many buffs they give our BPs, because as long as it takes 46 seconds between damage pacts, we are still going to be expected to do "other stuff" during that time.

Avatar melee is incredibly weak, it's equal to an unbuffed 1-hander against merit mobs. Translate that to HNMs and "endgame" and the disparity only gets worse. There is no pet based food, there is no opportunity to enhance many of the avatar's stats, there is a huge gaping hole between where SMN is and where SMN could be, and if this "update" is any indication, then that's just retarded.

Summoners wait with baited breath, and instead of innovative updates, we get FIXES that should have been done two fucking years ago.

I mean really, our great buff is the ability to achieve competency? Halla-fucking-lu-ja. Our last great buff was the ability to gain MP by not using Elemental Spirits. How bass ackwards is that? And before that? We were given the ability to split our BPs into Rages and Wards.

I hope these new avatars, the ones they've sat on since ToAU release, are really fucking something, because this latest update just continues to show SE's mental block in understanding pet jobs.

As of April, with no other enhancements, Summoner will be at the top of its game, and still be two years behind.

[Tempyst]

And once more, there is no garuntee that you will be able to click it off.

Very rarely does SE implement a buff that you can't manually click off. There's Sublimation, which you cancel by using the ability itself, and bard songs. It seems like you're just looking to get mad at this ability.

[dejet]

1) Saying that RDMs can tank is like saying that RDMs can nuke- you can try, but you are going to be terrible at it compared to the real people who do it. Get caught with your shadows down and you crumple like wet cardboard. Not to mention mobs that hit too fast to blink tank.
2) This is true, except for all of the mobs that are mostly resistant or completely immune to your enfeebles. Then your merits and gear is completely worthless and you are only there for your level 41 spell. Not to mention a decently well geared WHM or SCH will enfeeble any mob that is not covered by the above categories nearly as well as a RDM.
3) WHM is a far better healer in merits or any other situation. Besides, who has healers on the inside for merit parties anyway? Put your healers in an outside party and add in another DD, BRD, or COR.
4) Our only actual use!
5) Who asked for this? Because it wasn't me. I wanted an improvement to number 2.

And no, I don't tank on RDM. I leave tanking to the job that has been obscenely buffed to do it and doesn't need a 5 minute head start to prevent BLMs from getting hate by looking at the mob crosseyed.

1) that goes for anyone. i take 330 dmg from fafnir a nin takes 290dmg a pld takes 240(or 50 sometimes b/c of their block)
ya pld tanks better and by all means it should they can not do much more in the game.
rdm/nin you cast your shadows at like 40-50% and unless your co tank goes down this should never be a prob. also this is what SS is for. and phlx do the math rdm/nin tanks just fine with the right buffs on.
2) name one mob that you can not land some debuff on? all HNM slow lands on(just about) i cant say DI or SW mobs but i know for a fact slow II lands on behemoth, khim, cerb,tia(i think forget),fafnir,nidhogg. eij mobs it lands on(but i guess they die to fast for the most part)
lets not forget gravity for KB
3)yes b/c 90% of the pts you make have an outside PL? merit set ups unless your bent on only one set up seem to be. bard (cor rdm or a 2nd bard) dd,dd,dd,dd. see how whm does not fit in there? rdm is better with mp whm is 2nd on the list for merit pts behind all them.
4)what was 4? i forget sry
5)go to KI and alla for that one.

all im saying is rdm is not in need of an update. you have so much shit. and dont tell you cant nuke. rdm can nuke 900+ dmg on almsot anything. (best gear yes but ya you can)

im sry SE was not nice to rdm in the last 5years, but thats because they fucking overpowered it 5 years back...

edit: ya i know im get told (but you dont need any of that) ya you can also blood tank shit as people did pre nin fad.

[Day]

So +10 Acc. +10 Attack on the RDM boday??

[Raineer]

I like what they tried to do with Composure, but did I miss something in the announcement? I can't believe that wouldn't be for magic accuracy, if it is truly melee accuracy then ... jesus christ hop on the failbus. Has no one at SE ever soloed as RDM? If i'm killing something i actually need accuracy for I sure as hell don't want double timers.

As for Enspell II's, this falls in line with what I have said about RDM buffs for years. Name a MELEE buff for RDM which would not even further slaughter their already broken soloing. And you can't... So the only way to apply Enspell II's is to nerf joy/justice to bring it back down to reality a bit.

I'm more nervous that "Initial Hit" will skip my offhand as well, which kills ceremonial dagger as much as anything (unless it's 60/hit as mentioned)

[Pikarya]

So +10 Acc. +10 Attack on the RDM boday??

This is the correct answer.

[Raineer]

2) name one mob that you can not land some debuff on? all HNM slow lands on(just about) i cant say DI or SW mobs but i know for a fact slow II lands on behemoth, khim, cerb,tia(i think forget),fafnir,nidhogg. eij mobs it lands on(but i guess they die to fast for the most part)
lets not forget gravity for KB

Name some notable mobs we are the best at debuffing.

The answer might include "any mob which is impossible to elegy", but yeah...that ain't much.

[Destinye]

In before RDMs start bitching it doesn't overpower the fuck out of their job.


...Hmm 6 pages? Too late I guess.

[Khajit]

Kraken club + composure+ enspell2(without the initial hit's only nerf)= SE+BW without any hate generation? Ya. i cant see at all why Se would want to preemptively nerf that.

[Raineer]

In before RDMs start bitching it doesn't overpower the fuck out of their job.


...Hmm 6 pages? Too late I guess.

Not everyone.

[dejet]

Wut?

The game has evolved into a level of speed that SMN cannot hope to match. I don't care how many buffs they give our BPs, because as long as it takes 46 seconds between damage pacts, we are still going to be expected to do "other stuff" during that time.

Avatar melee is incredibly weak, it's equal to an unbuffed 1-hander against merit mobs. Translate that to HNMs and "endgame" and the disparity only gets worse. There is no pet based food, there is no opportunity to enhance many of the avatar's stats, there is a huge gaping hole between where SMN is and where SMN could be, and if this "update" is any indication, then that's just retarded.

Summoners wait with baited breath, and instead of innovative updates, we get FIXES that should have been done two fucking years ago.

I mean really, our great buff is the ability to achieve competency? Halla-fucking-lu-ja. Our last great buff was the ability to gain MP by not using Elemental Spirits. How bass ackwards is that? And before that? We were given the ability to split our BPs into Rages and Wards.

I hope these new avatars, the ones they've sat on since ToAU release, are really fucking something, because this latest update just continues to show SE's mental block in understanding pet jobs.

As of April, with no other enhancements, Summoner will be at the top of its game, and still be two years behind.

get a new shell if they hate smns and you liek smn? people do the same shit over and over and over. my shell is not great by any means but ya know what? even wipign to shit is fun when i can do shit.

i tanked rdm/nin 1st time ever had a blast.
i MBed fafnir on smn when we had like 4 other blm on.

i have fun even if we wipe idc. my smn gets to see play time and its not the same old "call BP>call>bp" i buff blm i heal the pt. i ss the dds. i have fun with the job

just to tell ya some shit we do. most the smns use wind blade and MB if we have them at say fafnir, our blu subs whm(nothing new), our thf is in the blm pt and steals 25% of a blms hate every 1min. think of new ideas to have fun with maybe?

most of the people are all the old time people who jsut want that gear and wont change their ways. go out and have fun... god damn people its not clear cut shit lol you can run wild int his game(maybe wont be the best... but still)

[Keria]

I fucking lol'd heartily, love you SE for brightening up my day. Inb4 someone touts Martial Anelace as new best RDM sword.