"The value of relics/mythics"

[Meat]

I'm curious myself to see someone do it, when pigs fly I suppose.

Why'd you say that? I'm not sure how it is on your server but back in the day on asura it was the beastmasters that were the 1st to get rich

[Ahlah]

Honestly, the thing about Aymur that is so compelling is the fact that some jugpets have effectively a D81 weapon and you can give them 50% doubleattack with no hate for you. Especially since you can Snarl any hate right onto them. The enhances Pet attack is a bonus. Aymur isn't a weapon for bragging rights or competitive merit parsing, but it is a neat tool. That and Primal Rend isn't a bad WS at all.

But really, I'm upgrading so I can spend more time at events as my favorite job and be useful.

Poor jugpet accuracy against VT+ mob is a huge problem. The only way Aymur can help BST to compete with other DD job in endgame situation is if it drops Sic recast which allows Amigo to spam TP move.

[fndragon]

Poor jugpet accuracy against VT+ mob is a huge problem. The only way Aymur can help BST to compete with other DD job in endgame situation is if it drops Sic recast which allows Amigo to spam TP move.

This is not true. Jugpet accuracy is not 90%, sure, but it's not horrible. Plus with the +15 pet accuracy piece that is being released and the herder's subligar that were released with Fields of Valor treasure chests, not to mention the increases in jugpet level through merits and AF2 hands, I would argue against this logic.

[Yugl]

But really, I'm upgrading so I can spend more time at events as my favorite job

Nope! BRD forever.

and be useful.

That might be new!

[Ahlah]

This is not true. Jugpet accuracy is not 90%, sure, but it's not horrible. Plus with the +15 pet accuracy piece that is being released and the herder's subligar that were released with Fields of Valor treasure chests, not to mention the increases in jugpet level through merits and AF2 hands, I would argue against this logic.

I am curious how much merit experience you have on BST. Lars and Amigo only parse around 60-70% in pre-TAU merit camps, and worse against HNM. Items you mentioned are not going to help much.

Aymur is unlikely to turn BST into a desirable merit/endgame job. If Aymur removes Sic recast, BST can at least build TP on weak mobs and spam Sic on HNMs and pray for Amigo to spam 1000 needles.

[Knightfell]

Why'd you say that? I'm not sure how it is on your server but back in the day on asura it was the beastmasters that were the 1st to get rich

Just an assumption I suppose.

BST: Hay guys can we kill some T4 zmn?

LS: Sure, why?

BST: For mah relic!

LS: ...

I can only imagine it must be as easy for a BST to get this done as it is to convince an LS that BST should get kitty pants.

[frodnonnag]

This is not true. Jugpet accuracy is not 90%, sure, but it's not horrible. Plus with the +15 pet accuracy piece that is being released and the herder's subligar that were released with Fields of Valor treasure chests, not to mention the increases in jugpet level through merits and AF2 hands, I would argue against this logic.

and you are losing what, byakko haidate and kirins osode so your pet can have some minor accuracy?

[Asdrabael]

and you are losing what, byakko haidate and kirins osode so your pet can have some minor accuracy?

Well, hopefully if they're getting mythic axe, they also have ebody and pimped out melee gear, so i would be missing out on haidate and ebody so the pet can have minor accuracy.

Keeping it in the context of the argument anyway.

[frodnonnag]

Well, hopefully if they're getting mythic axe, they also have ebody and pimped out melee gear, so i would be missing out on haidate and ebody so the pet can have minor accuracy.

Keeping it in the context of the argument anyway.

still, you are sacrificing a LARGE bonus from both body and legs for what? some accuracy on a pet.

[Asdrabael]

still, you are sacrificing a LARGE bonus from both body and legs for what? some accuracy on a pet.

Yeah, I'm not saying its a good trade, I was just correcting the gear in question.

You're actually losing more in my example than yours, because hopefully a fulltime osode bst isn't allowed by an LS to get the tier 4 items.

[Malacite]

I've been debating upgrading Amanomurakumo for some time, as I REALLY love SAM. However there are a few issues. Let's do some comparisons shall we?


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Amanomurakumo: DMG 88, Delay 437, Acc +20, "Tachi: Kaiten" Weakens Attacks, and super crit for 2.5x damage.

Futsuno Mitama: DMG 84, Delay 480, DEX +8, STP +8 and STR +8 (on WS)

Kogarasumaru: DMG 81, Delay 450, "Enhances Third Eye", Tachi: Rana AM


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amano's big attraction is Kaiten. True, it sucks on any high def mobs but the ability to double-light chain is sick. The base stats are pretty beastly too. Not terribly hard to get, just takes a lot of time & money. I rate it 3rd best GKT in the game.


Then we've got Futsuno, which I think is tied with Koga for best GKT in the game and here's why; This thing can (with a COR) get to a 4-hit build without sacrificing too much performance, especially if your COR rolls a high roll. Aside from having the 2nd highest base damage and a disgusting STR mod, the potential for 4-hit build is crazy good.

The main problem? We've yet to find a legit way to bring down AV and I'm seriously wondering if we ever will (And on that note, FUCK YOU SE. It's not funny anymore, and we're not amused that you want to add yet another AV-type mob to WotG.)


Then there's Koga. A complete pain the fucking ass to get, but oh so potentially broken. While you won't be chaining double-lights as you would with Amano, the AM3 more than makes up for this IMO. Getting 300 TP is shit-easy for a SAM (christ our 2-hour does it) so getting AM3 is a breeze by comparison to the other mythics.

We all know how obscenely strong the Jailer weapons are, and here we have what's essentially a Soboro on steroids. Again, the main problem here is the quest. Yeah I know some JP guy's managed to complete one, but at least if you're really loaded you can power your way through a relic. There's no powering your way through the Mythic Quest, especially not the ZNM triggers.


What do you guys think? They're all amazing weapons, but if I had to pick I think I'd go with Kogarasumaru. I'd also dearly love to get my hands on Futsuno as a "cheap" alternative, but as I said before that requires finding a way to kill AV that isn't cheating (and hopefully doesn't take more than a fucking hour)

[Araelus]

I'd also dearly love to get my hands on Futsuno as a "cheap" alternative, but as I said before that requires finding a way to kill SE that isn't cheating (and hopefully doesn't take more than a fucking hour)

Killing SquareEnix with or without cheating, in any length of time, just gets you sent to jai--- oh wait. You meant like in my signature?

[Zoolander]

Koga to me seems great for things like dynamis, einherjar etc, things where you are just basically all out meleeing and also seems like the most fun of the three by a long shot. However, it would really pain me to spend all that effort on it just to use a Hagun on HNMs like Khim, DI, etc where you really can't be meleeing (or at least not all out meleeing like you need for Koga to really shine). 81 base damage is pretty poor if you aren't utilizing the 300% aftermath.

Amano seems like the bets overall choice when you consider all aspects of the game, but Koga is pretty tempting. Also, the mythic quest isnt THAT bad if you have already been doing those events for a long time (which a majority of end gamers have been).

I just wish we could get some better info and numbers about Koga, kind of annoying there has been such little info about it.

[Malacite]

Edited for clarity ^^;

But there are some things I'd like to strangle our Dev Team over.

[Titanss]

bst will be the best dd eventually..

[Ultimagi]

Played around with Troubadour while I was waiting to enter Nyzul Isle a couple of days ago.

Duration of Minuet : 120 seconds
Minuet + Cornette +1 : 144 seconds
Minute + Cornette +1 + Troubadour : 288 seconds

So, the +10% duration from instrument enhancements and +100% duration from Troubadour do stack, and not only that, they multiply. Based on the assumption that Carnwenhan works the same way as a +2 instrument, the duration of Minuet before Troubadour would be 168 seconds, and 336 seconds after. For Elegy, this means with a +2 instrument, Carnwenhan and Troubadour, it should last 504 seconds, which is 8 minutes and 24 seconds. Can whoever completed Carnwenhan confirm this?

[Flight_93]

Can whoever completed Carnwenhan confirm this?

Can has japanese?

You do realize who you're asking, and that this information is all on her site?

[Kenji]

Was holding off replying until I saw the details on Esuna, in order to better assess the value of Yagrush. I also debated about whether it was worth it to reply. I've tried to be civil and stick to debating the points, but I have to ask myself, exactly what the difference is between this forum and alla. Because judging by some of the crude responses, it's getting very hard to tell.

Light Staff is better in terms of cost AND benefit. Yagrush has more cost, but a much greater benefit than +1hMP. It's obvious that you know nothing about cost-benefit analysis even though you preach it beyond belief. Give me one situation where +1hMP and a bit more MP will outweigh the effects of Yagrush? Better yet, why don't you give us an idea of where +1hMP and +20MP stands in the grand picture, because you make it seem like such a big deal then belittle the effects of Yagrush. Twisted much?

We seem to have a miscommunication here. I am not saying +1hMP is better than Yagrush; that would be a strawman on your part. I am saying, for the money spent, the benefit is less. Compare a sniper ring with a sinper ring +1. The latter costs vastly more, but the increase in benefit is much less. That would be a better comparison to how I view things.

Obviously, most people go with just a sniper, and only go for the +1 when they're tricked out and nothing left to spend. Otherwise, their money buys them stronger benefits by upgrading elsewhere.

Have you even done a T3 Einherjar with Leeches or W ivres? Have you even done T3 Einherjar in general? It's not spammed to the extent that you're trying to imagine it to be, but it occurs enough to make it unworthy of Erase 4x spamming, especially in a place with high lag. In most cases, mages will just leave the status on the melee. Guess what? That means it takes even more time to kill the mobs (These ATT downs are no joke!), which means more time/MP spent curing and reapplying haste. That also means more MP spent resleeping mobs for the BLM. The fact is that a WHM with Yagrush can afford to remove status effects more often than a WHM without Yagrush. In addition, they're more likely to do so.

You're rihgt, Yagrush is better. Erase is 18mp, and Esuna is 24mp. Erase has an 18 second recast, and Esuna has a 30 second recast (although I can both down to 10 and 16 seconds, respectively). That 6 second is sure a killer. And you're right that those abilities aren't spammed a whole lot, so I find the 16 seconds more than sufficient.

Of course, Esuna removes two status effects vs. the 1 of Erase, so overall, it can be more effective. I do find myself reaching toward esuna more and more. Easier to hit 1 macro vs. 7 or 8.

No one has said that every status ailment needs to be removed instantly, but if it is serious enough to be need removal, then why would you want to wait to perform four -na spells when you can cast it once?

I agree. Loving Esuna in that regard. Cursna being 30 mp, and Esuna costing less at 24, means it's a better deal. Why would I spend more mp to do aoe cursna?

You can hit multiple people with ailment removals at once already? Wow, you must be an awesome WHM!

It's called Divine Veil. It may have slipped your mind, but all WHMs have it. And Esuna, too.

I'll say it again for those that aren't reading. Yagrush is a nice weapon. But hardly worth the cost in my view. Before Esuna, I might have agreed with you. But from where I'm sitting, spending 90 mil nets you:

AoE Stona (very nice for some situations, I'll admit)
AoE Silena (so, you can save some melee's the cost of echo drops, which everyone should be carrying all the time, anyway?)
AoE status removal on other parties (could be nice, but they don't have a WHM? Can't Erasega another party, either)

I'm finding Esuna is more than sufficient to handle everything else, other than Stona. If you're having trouble in Dynamis-Bastok, I suppose it could help. Oh, and with Yag you can aoe status a bit easier without jumping stances, but most WHMs will be jumping stances anyway, to get the benefits of both.

And also to repeat: I concede on subjective value; that's not something that you can argue. If someone likes something because of the shiny factor, who are we to judge? And following that line of logic, if someone likes to run around and do endgameat Lv75, in Lv1 Starter RSE because it looks nice, then more power to them, right?

Oh, and I do want to respond to one other thing, at the risk of a derail:

when kenji showed up however many months ago and spouted his bullshit about Kclub being an exploit on AV I thought everyone would be smart enough to tell the guy to shut the fuck up and ignore him

You can, of course, back this up with evidence? Because I distinctly remember saying no such thing. I did say that SE might view it as an exploit, and soon patch it. And lo and behold, they did. I also said that, in the meantime, I considered the kclub AV thing to be payback for years of AV BS.

So I think only one of us is spouting bullshit, and it sure as hell ain't me, son.

[Deemos]

Koga to me seems great for things like dynamis, einherjar etc, things where you are just basically all out meleeing and also seems like the most fun of the three by a long shot. However, it would really pain me to spend all that effort on it just to use a Hagun on HNMs like Khim, DI, etc where you really can't be meleeing (or at least not all out meleeing like you need for Koga to really shine). 81 base damage is pretty poor if you aren't utilizing the 300% aftermath.

Amano seems like the bets overall choice when you consider all aspects of the game, but Koga is pretty tempting. Also, the mythic quest isnt THAT bad if you have already been doing those events for a long time (which a majority of end gamers have been).

I just wish we could get some better info and numbers about Koga, kind of annoying there has been such little info about it.

Quoted for truth, when i decided to start Amano, Kogarasumaru was already out, and i decided to pick Amano just for what Zoolander said above, watching all aspects of the game. I don't hide i'd really work on Kogarasumaru too, just to have the best in every situation, but i don't have time and income anymore to do it. :/

[Ultimagi]

Can has japanese?

You do realize who you're asking, and that this information is all on her site?

I don't speak japanese, I don't know who finished Carnwenhan, and I have no clue where her site would be.