Completed Relic/Mythic weapons list

[Andradi]

-Extra crit hit damage (not rate) with brave grip
-2.5x of that damage

Brave grip is terrible. You need Rose Strap to 7-hit it anyway so that is out.

FG already mathed it out, Ragnarok wipes the floor with Naglering. (Nag actually has a really shitty base D for it's delay, the main thing going for it is an easy 6-hit.)

[Kirschy]

Lets say rag is 1 sec faster on its swing then nag. You need a 7 hit build so 7 swings which is by my example 7 seconds faster total.

501 delay vs 431 delay, so at base delay it's ~1.2 seconds slower, yea. At higher hastes this number will go lower, but Rag will always be ~16% faster.

Nager needs 6 swings but is 6 seconds slower then ragnorok.... wouldn't they get 100TP around the same time? Also factor in that nag can miss an attack completely and get no TP gain where rag can land all of its attacks and get 100TP faster.

Rag can miss hits too... -_- Any endgame DD should be at or near acc cap in almost every situation =x.

Then someone said naga WS harder then ragnorok? Rag has 1 more base dmg, thats stronger then +20 attack. Not sure if Great sword weaponskills can crit hit but if they can, then rag increases that even more on WS.

Spinning Slash and Scourge don't crit unless forced. Spinning Slash is 2.5 fTP modded by STR/INT while Scourge is 3.0 modded by MND/CHR. Spinnish Slash also has a large Attack Boost to it, which Scourge seems to lack. Excluding the the aftermath effect from Scourge and focusing on the damage, Spinning Slash is a much better WS in practice.

There is very little ragnorok's on all the servers to even know exactly if the sword is down grade or not. The rag that I seen did 10 crit hits in a row and it was a DRK, so it wasn't mighty strikes. I think the aftermath also increases crit hit damage not just crit hit rate.

There aren't a lot of GSDs mainly for the reasons people have already stated. There are over 40+ Rags though, 2 of which are on my sever, and one of which I get to parse against often. The aftermath and the weapon both increase critical hits, but neither increase the damage done by a critical hit. And as I've said a few times, after many parses I can say /w 100% certianty that Rag doesn't parse anywhere near 50%+ crit rate. It's roughly 25% when adding base + weapon + casual aftermath usage.

You also need to factor in the fact that this weapon has the highest crit hit output in the entire game and its a VERY high possibilty that your 2.5x proc will be a crit hit proc 2.5x which I would assume would do major damage as it would be a
-Crit hit
-Extra crit hit damage (not rate) with brave grip
-2.5x of that damage

That proc alone would probably do more then 1000 damage assuming a crit hit from a great sword does at least 450.

Where do you get the notion that a crit from a GSD does 450 damage -_-. (86 + 17) * 3.15 = ~324 damage max from a critical hit. (Not counting factors such as melee bonus or SE/Soldier Drink.) With the 2.5x proc, you get 810 damage max. (And this is only if you're capped attack and fSTR.) In practicality the relic procs end up boosting your melee damage average by a small amount.

I won't go dissing the ragnorok just yet until you see one in action and run actual tests and not speculation or if nag is better or not.

It should have 90 base DMG though >_>

To repeat what I've said already, I've seen Ragnarok in action and I'm not impressed at all. Other GSD relic holders have had expressed their disappointment too. It's not just the weapon itself, but the weapon class is outdated. It would be analogous to a relic 1H axe for warrior. The way we play the game has changed, and it continues to change. I'm sure a RagDRK could hold their own in many cases, but it's not going to stop the community as a whole from experessing their disappointing and inherit flaws in the design and use of the weapon.

[Starr]

is there any case when you shouldn't be using pole grip?

SAM, with Usu Body and Feet, 5/5 Store TP merits, Brutal and Rajas makes Sword Strap better than Pole Grip.

WAR and DRK, I think they lose their 6hits to the extent that they would have to wear Aurum or Askar bodies to keep it up which is most likely not worth it. If you are in Salvage where you unlock your weapon slot a while before you have any other gear it is better because you need Brutal and Rajas for your 6hit anyway.

DRG it is a wash with Pole Grip being the safe option.

[Max™]

War/Nin can keep 7 hit with sword strap (as I recall, I'll check later), I just leave pole on since I don't own a sword strap.

As for Ragnarofl, I talked to a guy on Carby with one about it shortly after 2hed update, as he had just finished Apoc as well, he summed it up without a word "):".

[Vodou]

SAM, with Usu Body and Feet, 5/5 Store TP merits, Brutal and Rajas makes Sword Strap better than Pole Grip.

Not if said Sam is using amano (unless I don't understand how this works.)

The more robust answer is what Dalantan said.

[Thunder]

Not if said Sam is using amano (unless I don't understand how this works.)

The more robust answer is what Dalantan said.

So long as you hit three times with kaiten's aftermath on you're ok. (16.6 per hit with amano and sword strap and last hit would be at least 15.2 for ws and a hit with aftermath on is 17.3) Or you could just use white tathlum. Have to use a bit of hachiman for ws if you're using gekko, though.
(Numbers with tathlum are 17.6 with aftermath on, 16.8 in tp, and 15.2 for ws again with only rajas and brutal on)

[Alibeemac]

Nexosu - Kikoku - Lakshmi Server - Eminence LS

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d8...exo20-9-09.jpg

[Cream Soda]

decent looking nin

[Deemos]

Grrrrrats Amador! LOLDRG! <33333 Time to outparse my lolsam at lolibrì :D

And also

Lastdevil - Aegis - RageLS@Ragnarok - self funded, congratulations DUDE!
(sorry for the unusual pic, just used the same as the one on our frontpage)

http://www.rage-ls.net/public/img/aegislastdevil.jpg

[Starr]

SS lacks ebodys

[Aksannyi]

Why am I seeing WHMs with AF pants on instead of Blessed? /sigh

[Yugl]

I like how they try to hide their Galka in the background. Silly linkshell, you can't hide Galkas from me.

[Deemos]

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/signa...ic37443_18.gif

err...

Next time i'll zoom into his ass to avoid WHM blessed comments into an Aegis pic lawl (or askar WARs / Denali THFs, no one yet?)

[Malacite]

Mirke Body on NIN? Really?

[BerenTebogo]

Mirke Body on NIN? Really?

Could be ACC+10 DW+3 which would be good for NIN TP. I hope so anyways.

[Vodou]

So long as you hit three times with kaiten's aftermath on you're ok. (16.6 per hit with amano and sword strap and last hit would be at least 15.2 for ws and a hit with aftermath on is 17.3) Or you could just use white tathlum. Have to use a bit of hachiman for ws if you're using gekko, though.
(Numbers with tathlum are 17.6 with aftermath on, 16.8 in tp, and 15.2 for ws again with only rajas and brutal on)

Hmmm...

This is what (I think) you are saying:

1) sword strap + white tathlum > pole grip and black tathlum assuming you are using amano and at 6 hit with full usu and brutal / rajas. I dont think that's true since the math seemed to show the margins were relatively small between the 2 grips. Might be true in places where melee acc is capped.

2) sword strap + always use kaiten > pole grip and use w/e is appropriate. I'd have to see the math since this is not a true 6 hit build and having aftermath end before landing 3 hits would be an issue. Also, its an issue using kaiten on high defense mobs without adequate attack support.

3) sword strap + hachi body (ws only) +hachi legs (ws only) > pole grip + osode (ws only) + hachiryu legs (ws only). I doubt, but maybe the math says this is good. If using hachiman will need body and legs since you'll need +10 on the WS portion if using ygk.

[Thunder]

Hmmm...

This is what (I think) you are saying:

=X Sorry, should have been more clear, wasn't saying either build is more superior than the other(sword vs pole in this case); was just giving accurate stp values for an amano sam. But so long as I'm able to contribute!

1) I doubt strap + white wont beat grip + black but I could be wrong, just throwin' it out there.

2) Amano with sword and full haste gear(turban, byakko, usukanesuneate, velocious, nq dusk) and only haste spell swings every 4.6 seconds, reaching those 3 swings in 20 seconds should be no problem so long as you aren't running between mobs in limbus or something.

And 3) is probably in favor of pole.

[Kouu]

I've been usin Carbonara with a Sword Strap lately in places like Salvage, and it's pretty nice. I can't say I'm disappointed, but the difference I'm seeing is minimal at best. Pole Grip wins if you need to use different food (higher attack food than Carbonara, or Pizza+1). Regardless of all that, I've been enjoying the extra HP Carbonara gives. It's a beautiful thing.

[TummieGaruda]

Why am I seeing WHMs with AF pants on instead of Blessed? /sigh

Looks like Clerics to me and not Healer's. Simple town/idle gear.

[Kipling]

Stop being such an elitist, Aks!