Completed Relic/Mythic weapons list

[drwaffles]

Why, are you a fucking idiot or something? Do you not read English?

Pretty sure it was the meaning rather than the grammar that confused him. What on Earth are you trying to say? I'm agreeing with you for God's sake, what is it with BG and people constantly trying to stir up pointless argument? I know you're a sort of half-breed troll, but come the fuck on.

[Starr]

Is tanking as SAM/WAR really something you should be patting yourself on the back for? Seems to me you should be giving props to your mages more than anything.

You are saying here that tanking on SAM is more giving props to your mages than tanking on say NIN or PLD I believe?

Keeping shadows up and using more varied hate tools than Voke and Gekko is a little trickier and does require a degree of focus.

How does using Utsusemi and more varied hate tools mean you need to give less props to your mages than tanking on SAM? If anything PLD and NIN require both Refresh and Haste which is MORE SUPPORT from mages.

I am confused because these 2 statements contradict each other for me.

[frodnonnag]

Hardest assault is the fucking penguin one where you need to escort one back to the professor without it bugging out using emotes or something. On like the fourth tag with 4 people all trying to coax penguins, I got it to the professor with about 40s left.

once you fuck up with one, it's better and easier to move on to another.

[Therin]

How does using Utsusemi and more varied hate tools mean you need to give less props to your mages than tanking on SAM? If anything PLD and NIN require both Refresh and Haste which is MORE SUPPORT from mages.

Simple: SAM/WAR is simply a damage sponge. Even with good Physical Damage Down gear you're just eating damage left and right and the only way you can survive is if you have 2-3+ WHMs spamming the fuck out of cure spells on you.

It may be a novel concept to you but a PLD is actually fairly self-sufficient, especially if you're low-manning and not feeding the mob extraneous TP. Rather than requiring constant Cure attention a PLD only needs a few spells/songs cast on it every 2-3 minutes.

[Starr]

I can't agree, the only times I have seen someone tank on SAM/WAR it was really impressive (not talking Tiamat here I can't see how that's plausable really) as far as damage taken and hate held goes. I have done Mamool Ja Staging Point north camp with a SAM/WAR voking and tanking mobs the whole way through including Skoffins etc with only a RDM as healing for example, it didn't need 3 WHMs spamming cure at all.

[drwaffles]

You are saying here that tanking on SAM is more giving props to your mages than tanking on say NIN or PLD I believe?

How does using Utsusemi and more varied hate tools mean you need to give less props to your mages than tanking on SAM? If anything PLD and NIN require both Refresh and Haste which is MORE SUPPORT from mages.

I am confused because these 2 statements contradict each other for me.

Because tanking on SAM/WAR is, as far as I can tell, nothing more than engaging and using TE. Tanking on NIN or PLD is, and I use these terms very lightly, more "complex" and requires more "skill". I absolutely agree that good support is vital in both instances, what I was getting at was that a SAM/WAR is going to be a lot more dependant on Cures than a NIN or especially a PLD, meaning your mages will have to pay more attention in order to keep you alive. What you said about Haste and Refresh is pretty wut since not giving a SAM/WAR tank Haste just because they don't cast shadows is beyond retarded, and really what I'm talking about is the act of actually keeping your tank alive. Maybe I should've been more specific and said "healers" instead of "support".

[Therin]

I can't agree, the only times I have seen someone tank on SAM/WAR it was really impressive (not talking Tiamat here I can't see how that's plausable really) as far as damage taken and hate held goes. I have done Mamool Ja Staging Point north camp with a SAM/WAR voking and tanking mobs the whole way through including Skoffins etc with only a RDM as healing for example, it didn't need 3 WHMs spamming cure at all.

. . . did you just compare tanking a merit party to HNM tanking? You're the best goddamn troll I've ever seen.

[Starr]

I'm not getting into the whole SAM vs PLD on Tiamat or shit here btw, I am just saying that SAM is a great tank from what I have seen. I did not imply on not hasting the SAM when they are tanking but as a small man, which I believe the discussion is about, then Haste not being up for a short period of time due to whatever reason (it would happen with just a BRD and a RDM) then it would effect PLD more than SAM.

[Starr]

. . . did you just compare tanking a merit party to HNM tanking? You're the best goddamn troll I've ever seen.

No, not at all but they are still mobs swinging at you for 300 damage a hit and Third Eye has no level correction where it lasts shorter times on HNM or anything.

[Neoex]

Like when I tank Khim and Tiamat as SAM/WAR and live from 100% to 0, yeah? Don't think you were online for either of those fights to see it. Me and Riko cotanked Khimaira SAM/WAR x2 when Spruck DC'd before the window. I also cotanked Tiamat as a designated tank in the tank party, voking and everything. And did not die once in the process.

Your point is highly invalid.

no my point is very valid, you just happen to disagree with it.
When your in the tank party and have people watching your HP and buffs every second its alot different then when your ina party without a WHM, whacking on a mob pulling hate and dying because the mages arent focused on you because the ones in your party are BLM trying to do as much damage as possible

Ive tanked byakko on warrior big fucking deal, if your support is there its possible.

and yes I was there at the dual SAM tank khim.

Never ever seen a SAM be a DESIGNATED tank @ Tia from 100% -> 0%. Ive seen SAM pull all kind of hate on the ground, but if you did tank Tiamat from 100% -> 0% in the tank party I definetly missed that.

an alliance can only hold 18 people, the damage from a excal pld that is also tanking a mob cannot be replaced consistently with any job on MOST HNM mobs.

Sure you might be able to Hasso up and smoke an Excal paladin on the parse, but at what cost, flogging the mages mp to keep you alive? getting drawn-in moving the mob all around. Kudos, ill go with the Excal PLD.

[Therin]

Sure you might be able to Hasso up and smoke an Excal paladin on the parse, but at what cost, flogging the mages mp to keep you alive? getting drawn-in moving the mob all around. Kudos, ill go with the Excal PLD.

This man speaks much truths.

[Starr]

I'll go with the Gungnir DRG.

[Aksannyi]

I love you Starr.

[Starr]

olde news

[Kouu]

Because tanking on SAM/WAR is, as far as I can tell, nothing more than engaging and using TE. Tanking on NIN or PLD is, and I use these terms very lightly, more "complex" and requires more "skill". I absolutely agree that good support is vital in both instances.

Tanking on Ninja requires no more skill than tanking on SAM. A spell wheel and counting to 4 aren't difficult by any means, really.

@Tora: I don't full time Hasso when I tank HNMs, and even thinking that I do is borderline retarded and lacks common sense. I don't get drawn in all the time (except when I'm at Khimaira on Ranger or something, which is natural... it just happens). And I don't take the massive amounts of damage that people seem to think I do. You can keep telling yourselves I need 7 WHMs 3 RDMs and 2 Ghorn BRDs to keep me alive, though.

Someone asked earlier if Provoke/Warcry/etc is enough in the air (mainly due to the fact that with a good MDT or fire resist set, you don't take that much damage and thus your hate lost from getting pounded on isn't that significant), and generally my Paladin cotank trades off with me a lot more here because of this. Usually I try to let the PLD take hate back in the air unless I have no other option than to hold hate (which is a rare scenario). -48% PDT gear when my third eye shits out early reduces Tiamat to hitting for about 150 and 220~ish crits on the ground. She's a bitch.

Someone also told me that it wasn't impressive unless 2 Amanos brought Khimaira down in under 30 minutes. 22min24s was the time from engage to kill, clocked by my Seigan timer.

A WHM/NIN could tank with the appropriate support... did I ever deny I needed good support to tank on SAM? No, get your heads out of your asses. My support is always top notch, which is why I can do things like this. Does tanking on SAM take more support than a PLD? Probably, depending on the mob. On a mob like Khimaira, it's about the same. Does tanking on SAM take more support than a NIN? No, the support required by each is about the same no matter what you're tanking.

Does a SAM need more cures to tank high end HNMs like this? Of course they do, but they make up for the lost MP with way quicker kills. That's about all I have to say on this, really. =/

P.S. The khim tank party didn't have a BRD.

P.P.S. Will look for screenshots of damage taken.

[richardd]

sam vs pld vs nin is a different level. my sam cant really tank things like PW for more than 10 min w/o running into mp issues. or even AV. other easy shit like Khim or whatever is np. I think only 1 other person has ever claimed to do it before i took SS's of it, and even now, ill agree with waffles. it was nothing for me to be proud of, i just put it out there for other sams to consider. there are some mobs like Odin, where i can admit, my sam PWNS my nin and any kind of excal/aegis/burtang/dring/fullvallhal pld you can think of. but when i fought Khim/Tia/whatever. i know my nin wouldve been more efficient. and i had the best support in the world in the end, it was great teamwork. so its whatever. pld and nin is on a league of its own. sam is not. i was able to tank Khim with only 5 macros. my nin uses like 9 or 10 (Literally too, most windower macros). it was easier and still effective because i had mages that didnt suck. had i have half ass mages who were sluggish as hell, my sexy elvaan ass wouldve been on the ground lol. I also manually switched to my terra staff if my TE sucked and i only had like 20 TP, so its whatever.


i do agree with that kouu guy tho. he has been doing good on the 1st impressions he gave me on this board, and i respect his opinions. ive done JoL a million times with an excal/aegis pld who's geared to the teeth for haste/acc/dd and even with sub /drg, Ghorn marches/mads/whatever, he didnt come close to REAL merited DD's lol. i have posted the parse in this particular thread too if anyone can find it. yeah, I pulled hate, but i got 3 macros ready for stuff like that. its just common sense lol

[kandiekane]

Kouu, my question was were you able do it in 22min24sec with 4 ppl total?

Also, I highly doubt you can keep your CE capped with just voke and warcry. . . while blm's nuke the shit out of it in the air. Just because you have other Co-tanks doing that actual tanking 100%-0% and you're in the tank party, doesn't mean you are tanking.

[Kipling]

yeah, I pulled hate, but i got 3 macros ready for stuff like that. its just common sense lol

I remember that. In the rare situation I am on sam, and he is on RDM I just blame Goldo and his fail RDM, it's all his fault, after all.

[richardd]

Kouu, my question was were you able do it in 22min24sec with 4 ppl total?

Also, I highly doubt you can keep your CE capped with just voke and warcry. . . while blm's nuke the shit out of it in the air. Just because you have other Co-tanks doing that actual tanking 100%-0% and you're in the tank party, doesn't mean you are tanking.

sams dont rely on voke or warcry ;p. we depends on STR... on our ws macro lol. we spam over and over. and its easy to do like 700-800 with /war on mobs like Tia. and on Khim? he got def like a fuckin sea puk lol. you can break 1k w/o DA's. thats really how they do it. idk if you ever seen it, but it is kinda crazy. there was 1 time where it was on the air on me the entire time if me just idle'ing in my -magic dmg gear. was ironic because i was actually /drg and i didnt plan on tanking until one of our other tanks d/c



its not bad tho, you should consider it if you ever get the chance


@uryuu: you were great support, i know if you were in the pty i had the freedom to go balls out from the second i showed up

[Kouu]

Kouu, my question was were you able do it in 22min24sec with 4 ppl total?

Also, I highly doubt you can keep your CE capped with just voke and warcry. . . while blm's nuke the shit out of it in the air. Just because you have other Co-tanks doing that actual tanking 100%-0% and you're in the tank party, doesn't mean you are tanking.

That's such an ignorant statement that it genuinely amazes me. The point of a cotank is to trade hate, no? And in the air, we trade hate more than we do on the ground. And there wasn't too much "nuking the shit out of it" with 9 people.

Your argument lost its footing when you said I wasn't doing real tanking by letting someone better equipped to handle Tiamat in the air handle it while it was in flight.