Completed Relic/Mythic weapons list

[FailureMidgard]

Kitty pants. Probably town-ish gear though, given the /tells.

Pole Grip is town gear too right? /war I guess is ok in Aery just to claim, but is pretty gimptastic for a Yoichi sam otherwise. The rest of the gear has to be town gear though, I don't think the guy is good, but he can't be that bad...

[Nightfyre]

Pole Grip is town gear too right? /war I guess is ok in Aery just to claim, but is pretty gimptastic for a Yoichi sam otherwise. The rest of the gear has to be town gear though, I don't think the guy is good, but he can't be that bad...

I can hope, right?

[Shinryuu]

Why is /WAR gimpy for a Yoichi SAM? Is it simply because /DRG is a bit better due to double attack not mattering? Something else?

[Gadritan]

Oh man, here it comes...

[FailureMidgard]

Why is /WAR gimpy for a Yoichi SAM? Is it simply because /DRG is a bit better due to double attack not mattering? Something else?

5% haste, 10acc (JA acc, helps on Namas), 2 jumps (that Soboro can proc on)
vs
Berserk?

[Gadritan]

You forgot the att bonus <.<! (for /drg)

[Kirschy]

Pole Grip is town gear too right? /war I guess is ok in Aery just to claim, but is pretty gimptastic for a Yoichi sam otherwise. The rest of the gear has to be town gear though, I don't think the guy is good, but he can't be that bad...

Maybe I'm being woosh'd but since when /war gimp for Yochi SAM? Berserk is amazing for ranged WS damage. I'm sure there's situations where /DRG might be better due to the acc+/Haste+5%, but I can't imagine /war is considered gimp?

EDIT: You replied as I posted... but I'd still think Berserk can match up to it~

[Kipling]

Maybe I'm being woosh'd but since when /war gimp for Yochi SAM? Berserk is amazing for ranged WS damage. I'm sure there's situations where /DRG might be better due to the acc+/Haste+5%, but I can't imagine /war is considered gimp?

That's what I was wondering, I know Failure is always right with this kind of stuff but I thought Namas was similar to kaiten in that it benefited hugely from Berserk.

[Chojja]

/war is going to be better for things you arent up meleeing, say like an Odin. In which case /war or /rng would be best.

[Decy]

well he is generally a rng, just showed up sam to aery to see what it was like with yoichi i guess, hes a nice guy , well geared ranger too.

[FailureMidgard]

Maybe I'm being woosh'd but since when /war gimp for Yochi SAM? Berserk is amazing for ranged WS damage. I'm sure there's situations where /DRG might be better due to the acc+/Haste+5%, but I can't imagine /war is considered gimp?

EDIT: You replied as I posted... but I'd still think Berserk can match up to it~

5% haste (20>25) with 2 marches and haste if 55>60 is a 12.5% increase in WS rate alone. Berserk averages to 15% increase in attack. That isn't counting 10 accuracy or jumps (which Soboro -can- proc on). Perhaps I shouldn't call it entirely gimp. But it should be inferior in virtually any situation that is not a <3minute fight (where you can have berserk uptime at 100).

[FailureMidgard]

/war is going to be better for things you arent up meleeing, say like an Odin. In which case /war or /rng would be best.

It's a common misconception that you can't melee Odin. Melee will outdamage rangers on Odin, even running out to avoid the dispelga. Sure, they may take a little more damage also, but 1 mage can easily support a full melee party on Odin (assuming they are smart).

But sure, if you aren't meleeing, /drg is useless. Unsure if /rng or /war is better at that point. Acc bonus would be pretty nice to have if you're ranged TPing...

[Kirschy]

That's what I was wondering, I know Failure is always right with this kind of stuff but I thought Namas was similar to kaiten in that it benefited hugely from Berserk.

Yea, not to mention Ranged Attacks cap much higher than melee in terms of attack/defense ratio. Berserk is huge difference on my RNG, and thats /w great Eq, Velo Shot, Drk Roll, and Minuet x2 already on. I haven't done any math on it, but my instinct tells me /war would be better in most endgame situations(even when meleeing). Like you said, Failure seems to have a good eye/math sense for those kinds of comparisons, so I'm kinda curious~

EDIT: You posted while I posting again~ I'd imagine a good SAM should have ~22% haste in gear (Turban/Belt/Dusk+1/Byakko/Usu Feet). In which case it's slightly over 3% gain, (More like 3% and some swaps for more acc.) But I guess your point is still solid if berserk amounts to a ~15% increase in dot only. I'd thought it would be a lot more between melee hits and relic WS.

[Shinryuu]

Berserk is roughly 18%ish or so more damage done (Namas doesn't have a pDIF modifier, right?) so I guess it depends on the amount of haste you're enjoying (hasso yes/no, marches yes/no, etc.). Therefore I'd say /WAR isn't necessarily gimpy. Unless, of course, Namas has a pDIF boost I don't know of.

[FailureMidgard]

Yea, not to mention Ranged Attacks cap much higher than melee in terms of attack/defense ratio. Berserk is huge difference on my RNG, and thats /w great Eq, Velo Shot, Drk Roll, and Minuet x2 already on. I haven't done any math on it, but my instinct tells me /war would be better in most endgame situations(even when meleeing). Like you said, Failure seems to have a good eye/math sense for those kinds of comparisons, so I'm kinda curious~

EDIT: You posted while I posting again~ I'd imagine a good SAM should have ~22% haste in gear (Turban/Belt/Dusk+1/Byakko/Usu Feet). In which case it's slightly over 3% gain, (More like 3% and some swaps for more acc.) But I guess your point is still solid if berserk amounts to a ~15% increase in dot only. I'd thought it would be a lot more between melee hits and relic WS.

I'm also an idiot and didn't even count Hasso, but sure, let's say you're gaining 3% then?

Also adding in Hasso though (and maybe a bard with a decent march set?!), we're going from 68 to 71. 3.125>3.448 = 10.3%. I mean, this is going to vary with gear/buffs/etc. Less haste will obviously favor /war. But I'm still of the opinion that if you cant get double march and haste, melee isn't really worth bringing to most things (unless it's just to SC for some blms). And really, while I'm all for people not making relics with gimp gear, in most situations a relic is a larger increase in damage per gil spent than dusk+1 will be, so /shrug.

Anyway, berserk should up your melee damage and WS damage, 5% haste ups your melee damage and WS rate, so they should be doing a similar thing to total damage.

Berserk is roughly 18%ish or so more damage done (Namas doesn't have a pDIF modifier, right?) so I guess it depends on the amount of haste you're enjoying (hasso yes/no, marches yes/no, etc.). Therefore I'd say /WAR isn't necessarily gimpy. Unless, of course, Namas has a pDIF boost I don't know of.

18% damage done during uptime? So only 11% done total? Or are you saying its 18% total, so the 25% attack is actually a 30% increase in damage when it's up?


[Edit: Waiting for shin's response on berserk, if its 18% done while it's up, then /war can't compete at all hardly. If he's saying its 18% average, then I guess /war may be ideal assuming you have vbelt and dusk+1]

[Shinryuu]

18% average due to the lump sum pDIF decrease against higher level mobs, 30%ish uptime, depends on the exact mob level of course, and also depends on food and chaos roll.

To clarify, without any %-based attack buffs (food, roll), on an EM mob, Berserk ups your pDIF by 25% exactly (math behind this should be very easy) and therefore 15% on average. Add some mob levels and it's more.

[FailureMidgard]

18% average due to the lump sum pDIF decrease against higher level mobs, 30%ish uptime, depends on the exact mob level of course, and also depends on food and chaos roll.

To clarify, without any %-based attack buffs (food, roll), on an EM mob, Berserk ups your pDIF by 25% exactly (math behind this should be very easy) and therefore 15% on average. Add some mob levels and it's more.

Alright, so assuming 3.x% haste from earring, we're looking at 18% vs ~10.5-11% from haste, so it comes down to 10 accuracy and jumps. 90>95 hitrate is 5.5%. Unless there's a huge accuracy bonus on Namas, I'd assume a Samurai can either make use of all that, or swap gear around to make use of it for WS...and for melee, since Pizza isn't feasible, accuracy is not bad at all (this is a situation Ace's may actually be useful for too, heh).
Jumps are 3/3minutes, or 1/minute average, which is ~1/27 or ~3.7% increase.

In that situation, unless I'm underrating the need for accuracy (I really have no clue what food a yoichi sam uses in what situation), I still see /drg barely winning. If you need to use sushi, and use no accuracy on gear, then /war should pull ahead assuming 3% haste, though /drg wins again at 4%. And if you are using meat, and want to put on an Ace's, a /drg can do that to gain even more accuracy on melee (which may be needed) depending on mob.

[Fiendishone]

So other than DP, what mythics are we still missing? I could be wrong but I believe we've yet to see a SCH or BST

COR & BST are only 2 mythics that have yet to be fully unlocked as far as anyone on BG knows. Could be some random JP out there lurking in the shadows that gets overlooked and may have one done for all we know.

[Shinryuu]

Is there a compilation topic of the various JA enhancements mythics give yet? For instance, Third Eye on GKT and Jump on Ryunohige.

[Yugl]

Is there a compilation topic of the various JA enhancements mythics give yet? For instance, Third Eye on GKT and Jump on Ryunohige.

Third Eye effect simply increases the Seigan Effect (Number of dodges and counters).

Jumps are 100% Critical hit.

There's no real compilation yet though (Even though NUMEROUS threads have tried...).