Completed Relic/Mythic weapons list

[Yugl]

I'm betting that if what you say is true, it's possible that magic related buffs have a greater duration than melee buffs. It would make a lot of sense as well.

[Fottiti]

Not sure what you are basing this on, but it's flat out wrong regarding relic rng (we are in a relic thread still aren't we?) and it's likely wrong regarding non relic rng.

There is such a thing as VE decay and if non relic rng were to skip WS, they would likely never get close to a VE cap.

Categorically, Yoichi rng can go /war, get songs, use ranged attacks at every chance, Namas at 100tp, and toss in a barrage and not pull hate. Anni users have it just that much easier, and going /sam makes it even better.

This is not even taking into account camo by the way.

I'm basing this on plenty of experience killing ixion with non-relic rngs.

I am well aware of VE decay and I have seen ixion frequently run back to rngs with just normal shooting. Before someone jumps in with the crappy tanks arguement, both tanks were reaching VE cap every flash and cure swap.

I wasn't refering to Anni so I suppose it could've been misinterpretted. But a yoichi rng isn't actively lowering his enmity in any way so shooting for tp alone should result in a net gain of VE over time, combined with barrage you should absolutely be capping VE after a while.

As for anni I have only ever seen one in action and wasn't enough to draw any conclusions from. Yoichi however is easy to understand because all that happens is you get very little hate from Namas.

[Vodou]

I'm basing this on plenty of experience killing ixion with non-relic rngs.

I am well aware of VE decay and I have seen ixion frequently run back to rngs with just normal shooting. Before someone jumps in with the crappy tanks arguement, both tanks were reaching VE cap every flash and cure swap.

I wasn't refering to Anni so I suppose it could've been misinterpretted. But a yoichi rng isn't actively lowering his enmity in any way so shooting for tp alone should result in a net gain of VE over time, combined with barrage you should absolutely be capping VE after a while.

As for anni I have only ever seen one in action and wasn't enough to draw any conclusions from. Yoichi however is easy to understand because all that happens is you get very little hate from Namas.

Well, as I have used Yoichi and done exactly as I described many times with Ixion and not pulled hate, I'd suggest the remarks should be more carefully stated. Yoichi rngs should not and need not pull hate on Ixion even while doing max damage even with food and full buffs even with /war. Using Anni and /sam reduces enmity even further.

[Aselin]

A little late, but congratulations Azn on Death Penalty! ^^ Sexy-ass gun.

(I'll punt your little taru next time when I see you in-game ~.^)

Anyhow, Merry Christmas to everyone on BG.

[Fottiti]

Well, as I have used Yoichi and done exactly as I described many times with Ixion and not pulled hate, I'd suggest the remarks should be more carefully stated. Yoichi rngs should not and need not pull hate on Ixion even while doing max damage even with food and full buffs even with /war. Using Anni and /sam reduces enmity even further.

With 2x minuets and pot-au-feu a normal rng will cap hate with just barrage and /ra on both ixion and odin (only 2 fights its even concievable you would bring a rng to). Yoichi doesn't actively lower your hate anyway it just lowers the VE gained from WSing (and you do still get some) so I don't see how you can never be pulling hate with it regardless of subjob if you aren't holding back.

I already stated that I wasn't refering to Anni as the information on exactly what aftermath does isn't well documented (unless wiki is correct and it is a straight -20 enmity) and I have no experience with it myself.

[ZhiGaruda]

I'm basing this on plenty of experience killing ixion with non-relic rngs.

I am well aware of VE decay and I have seen ixion frequently run back to rngs with just normal shooting. Before someone jumps in with the crappy tanks arguement, both tanks were reaching VE cap every flash and cure swap.

I wasn't refering to Anni so I suppose it could've been misinterpretted. But a yoichi rng isn't actively lowering his enmity in any way so shooting for tp alone should result in a net gain of VE over time, combined with barrage you should absolutely be capping VE after a while.

As for anni I have only ever seen one in action and wasn't enough to draw any conclusions from. Yoichi however is easy to understand because all that happens is you get very little hate from Namas.

For some reason I have a feeling you have no idea what VE is or how high it caps. You seem like a pretty silly guy!

Edit: And by silly I mean stupid

[Fottiti]

For some reason I have a feeling you have no idea what VE is or how high it caps. You seem like a pretty silly guy!

Edit: And by silly I mean stupid

Oh wow thanks for your contribution. Your comment lacks any specific indication of why you are suggesting I don't understand.

I suspect it is you who doesn't understand VE or how high it caps so I would like to direct your attention to Kaeko's Livejournal in an attempt to help you.

[ZhiGaruda]

Oh wow thanks for your contribution. Your comment lacks any specific indication of why you are suggesting I don't understand.

I suspect it is you who doesn't understand VE or how high it caps so I would like to direct your attention to Kaeko's Livejournal in an attempt to help you.

That's why they call me a troll. I let you know just how stupid you seem, and allow you to ponder the reasoning behind it, until you eventually cave and post PREEZ 2 TEL ME Y!!11!

You are suggesting your tank(s) are actively capping VE against Dark Ixion, with flash and cure cheats. Are you serious, broseph? Did you even read how enmity works on that fair livejournal you so purposefully quoted?

Let's just think about this based on "perfect world" situations. Assuming you aren't constantly running from Dark Ixion, getting trampled/hit for cast interupptions and the like, casting shadows which will cause you to not get on your flash timer absolutely on time. Let's assume your tanks are using enough +enmity to get a 40% increase in enmity for just flash.

1280 VE from base flash + 512 in +enmity = 1792 total enmity from flash, 60/second decay = 30 seconds before total enmity is washed. Assuming your flash timer is at 25 seconds, leaves you with 300 VE between flashes. So you're looking at 33 flashes to cap your VE.

Over 13 minutes of just flashing to cap your VE. Of course, factor in sentinel, get off 2 flashes in that one sentinel, lowers it down by a few minutes. Your cure cheat is going to work all of maybe 4-5 times before you are out of MP, totaling some 5-6000 VE from that, but the odds of you maintaining that whilst taking damage/counting shadows/running are extremely slim. The amount of MP you are getting back from refresh sources aren't enough to maintain any significant amount of VE via cure cheats.

In a perfect world, sure, it is possible to maintain capped VE. Against Dark Ixion, sorry bro, not going to happen. Capped CE is a different story..but this requires a pro tank vs. Dark Ixion. Which, if the RNG's are constantly battling with hate, it's quite obvious you don't have that!

[Fottiti]

All of which would be very true if you are solo tanking dark ixion. It is obviously impossible to be at VE cap 100% of the time due to decay, but it is very plausible to be hitting VE cap pretty much every flash in the cycle (with cure cheats and casting ichi/ni between) when you have 2 tanks. This is all irrelevant anyway because you could tank perfectly and still lose hate between actions.

My point, which you've completely ignored, is that a rng will gain VE (overcome the decay) purely through shooting arrows with /ra and barrage. Therefore ixion or whatever you are fighting will turn to face the rng when a /ra or barrage does put them at VE cap (assuming their CE is capped).

My post said "every flash and cure" which is an overestimation, I would like to change that to "most flashes and cures" but it is all irrelevant to the point I was making anyway.

[ZhiGaruda]

All of which would be very true if you are solo tanking dark ixion. It is obviously impossible to be at VE cap 100% of the time due to decay, but it is very plausible to be hitting VE cap pretty much every flash in the cycle (with cure cheats and casting ichi/ni between) when you have 2 tanks. This is all irrelevant anyway because you could tank perfectly and still lose hate between actions.

My point, which you've completely ignored, is that a rng will gain VE (overcome the decay) purely through shooting arrows with /ra and barrage. Therefore ixion or whatever you are fighting will turn to face the rng when a /ra or barrage does put them at VE cap (assuming their CE is capped).

My post said "every flash and cure" which is an overestimation, I would like to change that to "most flashes and cures" but it is all irrelevant to the point I was making anyway.

That is a solid point, I was overlooking that as I solo tanked Dark Ixion damn near every single time. Do continue!

[Strai]

both tanks

I don't know how it was hard to miss.

[Kaeko]

All PLDs regardless of sub can and generally do maintain VE cap. Given the nature of the job it's almost hard not to. I'll disagree with anyone that claims VE cap is hard to maintain on PLD.

Sentinel > Flash > Cure IV puts you around 8000 VE just with that. Once you hit cap, you don't have to do anything outside of 3600 VE a minute. 2 flashes with reasonable enmity gear alone will do that.

For RNG, VE caps are VERY easy to hit. Even without WS. Again, 3600 VE a minute is the cutoff and after you reach this point, you have net gains. Try a level 88 mob (estimated for most HNMs), you need to deal 900 damage to get ~3600 VE with no enmity changes. I haven't played in awhile, but that doesn't seem too hard on a RNG/WAR even without sidewinder. Most RNG/WARs will tell you hate is always an issue unless they hold back significantly. This is with sidewinder though. Yochi Namas may reduce this, and you may be able to get enough -enmity to balance damage v enmity.

TL;DR: I agree with Fottiti

[ZhiGaruda]

ITT: Zhi attempts to math and fails horribly. Back to trolling, I suppose

[Titanss]

sounds like a match. this was him on cerb: http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showp...&postcount=200 where he got his first relic, the gkt. i remember someone posting him with an apoc on another server and now the bow. go figure.

so you know that's the same one for sure?


that mother fucker (if it is the same Bahamut guy) no exaggeration has spent at least 50k-100k dollars on this game. And I'm no anti-rmtfag but I dunno why that asshole always pissed me the fuck off on bahamut.

[sruon]

I actually fell asleep after I came home from work cause work sucks so I didn't get to do fight till like mad late lol.

Anyways! to add fuel to the relic/mythic debate, I'd like to thank all the people who helped me along the way over the course of the year.

wow, where's my thanks for smn burning your cor to 75.

Now go back to farming gold, I need sum.

CUT YOU

[thetruepandagod]

Yochi Namas may reduce this, and you may be able to get enough -enmity to balance damage v enmity.

Only way would be /sam spamming relic ws but even then ur normal ranged attacks and triple procs would be making whatever u are fighting go after u regardless, there really isnt anyway that im aware of that rng's can go all out without it being a zerg fight.

[Kaeko]

Only way would be /sam spamming relic ws but even then ur normal ranged attacks and triple procs would be making whatever u are fighting go after u regardless, there really isnt anyway that im aware of that rng's can go all out without it being a zerg fight.

I guess the idea would be to swap 2-3 pieces of gear from your normal WS or DD set for enmity gear. Couple of "high yield" switches (meaning you gain a lot of -enmity for not as big a loss in stats) I can think of are Novia (-7), Cobra Harness (-8), and Errant Cape (-5).

You obviously lose damage, but you're getting - enmity in big chunks.

[Shamaya]

Let's measure the effectiveness of weapons in units of Dmg/Enmity!

[Caiti]

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/5...1222023402.png

grats!~

(lolfullaurum)


edit: please excuse my awful graphics :X

[BerenTebogo]

Couldn't have done it without the help of some good friends. Thanks guys.

March 28th 2009 character created from scratch. The DRG guy beat me just barely