Completed Relic/Mythic weapons list

[Sydneysam]

I indeed have different builds for varying accuracy, though I'm curious what the fuck you put on in Dynamis (Xarc/Tav excluded) outside of a Flame Ring for TP.
Oh, for the record, I play other jobs a lot still too, so let's go with my Dynamis set includes a Sorc Ring and Umbra Cape?

[FailureMidgard]

When you can't respond with logic, ^

[Tsuko_Asura]

^^^^

[Tsuko_Asura]

Alright, I'm done, Swear

Edit: ^^^

[Cairthenn]

You make me all smiley inside.

[FailureMidgard]

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/5...sienmandau.jpg

Hosien - Volume of Phoenix

I feel guilty, WOOOO GRATS HOSIEN.

[Marcicus]

Alright, I'm done, Swear

Edit: ^^^

Someone's had a bit too much to drink tonight.

[Aeowin]

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/5...sienmandau.jpg

Hosien - Volume of Phoenix

Oh lord, grats queer bag. Should have worn the fruity body...

[cpu]

Vorge

hahahahahahaha

[cpu]

ugh!!!

[Iremire]

Grats Hosien, and I agree with aeowin should have worn that other body.

Edit: Wait chita got an ace's helm?

[Kellanved]

Samurai: 5hit v. 6hit:
A thread or two has popped up on this topic since the addition of the Rose strap. In the interest of providing some information, I’ll share my experiences on it. Excuse the derail.

In my experience, a 5hit set up was not superior to a 6hit setup, and perhaps even slightly inferior, therefore not worth the trouble of dealing with the required STP manipulations. At least, in standard situations.

At similar food tier, the increase in WS frequency of the 5hit was not enough to overcome the Melee damage of the 6hit. (I saw no value in comparing lower food tiers, i.e carbonaras, buns/subs, pizza is not applicable)

I think the main issue with the current state of a 5hit SAM setup is the fact that you’re forced to use specific foods to make it work, and the best of those foods available is weaker than the counterpart one would use in a 6hit. (Aside from the haste that has to be given up)

The primary WS is a multi-hit, so there was no need to make sacrifices in that WS equipment to accommodate STP in this case. The 5hit set up just wasn’t much different, or better for that matter. I don’t think this observation will be much different for other GKTs.

A sample of the comparison: MMJSP,BRDX2. Controlling what can be controlled as much as possible.

5hit 6hit
Kogarasu Kogarasu
Arrabbiata (+5) Red Curry
U.body (+6) Same
U.feet (+7) Same
White Tathlum (+2) +2 ACC Ammo
Hachi hands+1 (+9) Dusk Gloves
Rose strap (+4) Sword strap
Rajas (+5) Same
Brutal (+1) Same
18% haste 21% haste

5hit
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f213/Artemas/5hit.jpg

6hit
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f213/Artemas/6hit.jpg

[FailureMidgard]

5hit, you had 590 hits:115 wses.
6hit, you had 616 hits:104 wses.

590/115 = 5.13
616/104 = 5.92

I fully realize it's impossible to play perfectly, but you are far from doing it here in my opinion, and furthermore, it seems to me that not only are you far from playing perfectly, you did a worse job with your 5hit than you did with your 6hit. Also, this is with meditates mixed in? Assuming you never meditated once, you're already WSing once per 5+ swings with a 5hit, when it should be once per 4 swings. On average, you hit 117 TP with your 5hit. You really call this a proper parse? When you count meditates in, it sounds like you were WSing at 130+ TP on average. PLEASE tell me how I am reading this wrong. Anyway, as I said, your 6hit looks similar, but the difference in those ratios should be closer to 1.0 than the .8 you have. ~.95ish at least I'd hope.

Am I missing something?

[Kellanved]

5hit, you had 590 hits:115 wses.
6hit, you had 616 hits:104 wses.

590/115 = 5.13
616/104 = 5.92

I fully realize it's impossible to play perfectly, but you are far from doing it here in my opinion, and furthermore, it seems to me that not only are you far from playing perfectly, you did a worse job with your 5hit than you did with your 6hit. Also, this is with meditates mixed in? Assuming you never meditated once, you're already WSing once per 5+ swings with a 5hit, when it should be once per 4 swings. On average, you hit 117 TP with your 5hit. You really call this a proper parse? When you count meditates in, it sounds like you were WSing at 130+ TP on average. PLEASE tell me how I am reading this wrong. Anyway, as I said, your 6hit looks similar, but the difference in those ratios should be closer to 1.0 than the .8 you have. ~.95ish at least I'd hope.

Am I missing something?

It is what it is. Interpret it however you please. I played as I normally do; using JAs whenever they are up/appropriate, including meditate. AM3 was maintained equally as much as possible during both trials. WSs were done as soon as possible. Pulls were reasonably constant, and all other conditions were my usual standards. Please, do provide your own experiences of both setups if you can. I'm much more interested in the differences you actually observed while playing than any theoretical expectations. Maybe you can oblige and show how it’s done in the near future.

[Aeowin]

Am I missing something?

Half a hit.

[FailureMidgard]

It is what it is. Interpret it however you please. I played as I normally do; using JAs whenever they are up/appropriate, including meditate. AM3 was maintained equally as much as possible during both trials. WSs were done as soon as possible. Pulls were reasonably constant, and all other conditions were my usual standards. Please, do provide your own experiences of both setups if you can. I'm much more interested in the differences you actually observed while playing than any theoretical expectations. Maybe you can oblige and show how it’s done in the near future.

Oh, I missed the whole mythic thing, my bad. That explains a -lot-.

A. You're saving to 300TP every 2 minutes. Normal difference between 5 and 6 hit is really 4 vs 5 swings, or 25% difference. Difference for you whenever you save to 300 between 5 and 6 hit is actually 14 vs 17, or 21.5%.
B. You're getting a +45% DA rate? with mythic aftermath up? You do realize this hugely skews against 5hit? You're going to overshoot 100TP more often than not when your aftermath is up, which really harms the benefit of a 5hit build.

I am sorry if I came off a little insulting in my first post, you have a pretty good reason for having those ratios, but your parses still don't apply in the least to any Sam out there using an Amano or any non-Mythic, non-Soboro GK.

As for my 5hit, as I said before, it is -very- dependent on being able to maintain relic aftermath 100% of the time, which is hard without a very good puller(s) in a merit situation. That being said, I don't think most single hit GK's with a 6hit should be going above a ~5.2-5.3 ratio unless they are being very slack.

[Konda]

I can see the benefit of going for a 5hit if:

1) you can maintain aftermath 100% of time
2) never swap to any sort of "oshit" equipment
3) you're doing a long zerg against a souleater resistant mob or not using 2hrs... (einherjar?, kirin?)
4) you can keep your food (no birds)

you also lose 30-90 attack from food alone (carb is +60 atk vs hq meats 90-150) which is definatly going to impact on your kaitens.

And assuming everyone has dusk+1, even with a relic, is kinda meh IMO, the cost:benefit ratio on dusk+1 is lower than amano really. Even past that though, the 5hit should beat the haste setup unless you're zerging with haste samba (which I guess is a possibility, but I've never had it).

I'd sooner pay 20mil for some gloves that loads of jobs can use than 180 on a GKT.

Can I just point out that you needs dusk+1 to hit 15sec Ichi on RDM, making various solos easier, and is the main reason some people invested time into them.

[Dooom]

Oh hey Avelle didn't get cut off the relic SS! (Assuming that *is* Avelle and not some other mithra in Volume with the same model and Usu body!)

[FailureMidgard]

I can see the benefit of going for a 5hit if:

1) you can maintain aftermath 100% of time
2) never swap to any sort of "oshit" equipment
3) you're doing a long zerg against a souleater resistant mob or not using 2hrs... (einherjar?, kirin?)
4) you can keep your food (no birds)

you also lose 30-90 attack from food alone (carb is +60 atk vs hq meats 90-150) which is definatly going to impact on your kaitens.

Carbonara is 65 attack, vs Yellow Curry 85.
Arrabbiata 120 attack, vs Red Curry 150.

So let's go with 20-30 attack, also Red Curry takes 652 base attack to get the full 150. You'll basically never hit this with minuets only, and the only way with Chaos Roll is 11 w/ drk in party, so the 30 attack is unlikely. As I conceded, 1 is the biggest drawback. 2 isn't really accurate, because chances are you lose 1 hit either way, a 5hit (with proper food, Rose Strap, White Tathlum) will maintain a 6hit in oh-shit gear, while a 6hit drops to a 7hit. Also, you get TP for being slapped in the face. As for 3, even things like chariots (doesn't need to be a zerg) in salvage, ISNM (flash can mess it up though), anything with a single target really.

I'm still not entirely sure on if Amano even beats Pole on birds...it's one of the things I really want to mess with now that I have one, but haven't really had the time. Really painful/annoying/hard to do the numbers on paper on the 2.

I'd sooner pay 20mil for some gloves that loads of jobs can use than 180 on a GKT.

I've never been a fan of leveling more than 1 DD job...so the fact that 8 different DD jobs are on dusk gloves is kinda a moot point imo. One of the most irritating thing in this game is when people that are dd only actually ask what job to come on, as if any of us give a fuck whether someone comes sam or war or a worse DD.

Anyway, Amano adds more than 9x what Dusk+1 adds, easily, but I think your numbers are off on the cost of Amano. That and Hachiryu Haidate are my next 2 purchases though

[Konda]

Carbonara is 65 attack, vs Yellow Curry 85.
Arrabbiata 120 attack, vs Red Curry 150.

So let's go with 20-30 attack, also Red Curry takes 652 base attack to get the full 150. You'll basically never hit this with minuets only, and the only way with Chaos Roll is 11 w/ drk in party, so the 30 attack is unlikely. As I conceded, 1 is the biggest drawback. 2 isn't really accurate, because chances are you lose 1 hit either way, a 5hit (with proper food, Rose Strap, White Tathlum) will maintain a 6hit in oh-shit gear, while a 6hit drops to a 7hit. Also, you get TP for being slapped in the face. As for 3, even things like chariots (doesn't need to be a zerg) in salvage, ISNM (flash can mess it up though), anything with a single target really.

I'm still not entirely sure on if Amano even beats Pole on birds...it's one of the things I really want to mess with now that I have one, but haven't really had the time. Really painful/annoying/hard to do the numbers on paper on the 2.

Ejin's at 593 attack with jus kaiten gear and berserk, so hitting red curry cap would be np w/ minuets.

keeping a 6hit due to swinging with "oshit" gear on is much easier than keeping a hit.


as for pole vs amano, we plan to test that as soon as we can find some brds, a COR and some time.... I've got full usu tomoe SAM (although no polarm merits) and well, you've seen Ejin's Amano