Completed Relic/Mythic weapons list

[FailureMidgard]

Ejin's at 593 attack with jus kaiten gear and berserk, so hitting red curry cap would be np w/ minuets.

Berserk sure, that has a 60% uptime at best, which again, implies the attack difference is strictly less than 30. I made a comment that 30 was the top, but isn't really realistic many times, you'll virtually never get 30 for the duration. This doesn't contradict my argument in the least. You are looking at a 20 attack difference in lowend food, and less than 30 with expensive food, likely in the 25-26 range on average.

keeping a 6hit due to swinging with "oshit" gear on is much easier than keeping a hit.

I guess this depends how much oh-shit gear you're putting on, I'll assume you're talking about ring+body+head only? In which case I disagree entirely with you, and it's equally "easy".

I'm assuming a "standard" build, implying you're using an aftermath set, so you have 25(base)+10(merit)+6(ring+ear)+6(body)+6/7(AM/feet) = 53/54
1.53*11.1=16.9/hit
WS is 41 for 15.6, 16.9*5+15.6=100.1

Dropping 6, you get:
1.47*11.1=16.3, 16.3*5+15.6=97.1, you have to take 1 hit.

5hit: 82 storeTP, 20.2/hit, 19.3 on WS, 20.2*4+19.3=100.1
Dropping 6 on body, you get:
1.76*11.1=19.5, 19.5*4+19.3=97.3, you have to take 1 hit.

If you are going with a full PDT set (2 rings, feet, body, etc), it's what I said in my first post, and a 6hit drops to a 7, a 5hit drops to a 6.

as for pole vs amano, we plan to test that as soon as we can find some brds, a COR and some time.... I've got full usu tomoe SAM (although no polarm merits) and well, you've seen Ejin's Amano

Full Usu is inferior, you're already giving amano an edge. I've argued this before, no reason to get in it again, I have full Usu, I'm not just knocking something I don't have.

[Konda]

Berserk sure, that has a 60% uptime at best, which again, implies the attack difference is strictly less than 30. I made a comment that 30 was the top, but isn't really realistic many times, you'll virtually never get 30 for the duration. This doesn't contradict my argument in the least. You are looking at a 20 attack difference in lowend food, and less than 30 with expensive food, likely in the 25-26 range on average.


Full Usu is inferior, you're already giving amano an edge. I've argued this before, no reason to get in it again, I have full Usu, I'm not just knocking something I don't have.

my bad on the food issue, i didnt see Arra in there and thought u were comparing carb to red curry and coming with a 26-27 atk difference. Realistically though, gl finding enough Arra (120k~ for 2?). red curry/other hq meats are much more readilly available. red curry would get you 6-8 buns for the same dragon meat.

@pdt: with an amano you should have -31% available.

@polarm, what build would you suggest to maintain capped acc with crab sushi and no polarm merits on birds, if full Usu isnt good?
I've got everything bar aces helm for SAM. To maintain 5hit with tomoe (locks usu body/feet/not sword strap), I'm dropping 2% haste from a "full haste" for 15-20 acc.

[Konda]

Full Usukane

200 + 0.9*40 << combat skill Acc
(66+20)*.75 << DEX Acc
+66 << Equip Acc

=376 Acc.
Assuming crab sushi (13% acc) has no Acc cap (it does, but idk what it is)...

376*1.13 = 424 Acc (rounding down)

Acc over kill (for birds, idk about wivre but they're more evasive), can swap out cuch mantle and minuet earring.


Mixed Set

200 + 0.9*40 << combat skill Acc
(66+30)*.75 << DEX Acc
+49 << Equip Acc

=357 Acc
Assuming crab sushi (13% acc) has no Acc cap...

357*1.13 = 403 Acc

slightly under Acc cap for birds, no idea about wivre.



Maybe it's not quite as bad as i thought, assuming Crab sushi doesnt have an Acc cap. However I'm pretty sure it does, and is somewhere around 30-35 acc? That changes things, and I'd take capped hit rate over 2% haste

[FailureMidgard]

my bad on the food issue, i didnt see Arra in there and thought u were comparing carb to red curry and coming with a 26-27 atk difference. Realistically though, gl finding enough Arra (120k~ for 2?). red curry/other hq meats are much more readilly available. red curry would get you 6-8 buns for the same dragon meat.

@pdt: with an amano you should have -31% available.

@polarm, what build would you suggest to maintain capped acc with crab sushi and no polarm merits on birds, if full Usu isnt good?
I've got everything bar aces helm for SAM. To maintain 5hit with tomoe (locks usu body/feet/not sword strap), I'm dropping 2% haste from a "full haste" for 15-20 acc.

I'm not debating available PDT, I'm saying if you use a full PDT build, you are dropping a hit off any build, or relying on being hit 3-4+ times per TP cycle, which is a little silly. In either case, both 5hit and 6hit have the same issues. They lose 1 hit, or they need the same # of hits on them in order to keep their build. In fact, it's actually easier for the higher storeTP build to save it via getting hit.

Full Usukane

200 + 0.9*40 << combat skill Acc
(66+20)*.75 << DEX Acc
+66 << Equip Acc

=376 Acc.
Assuming crab sushi (13% acc) has no Acc cap (it does, but idk what it is)...

376*1.13 = 424 Acc (rounding down)

Acc over kill (for birds, idk about wivre but they're more evasive), can swap out cuch mantle and minuet earring.


Mixed Set

200 + 0.9*40 << combat skill Acc
(66+30)*.75 << DEX Acc
+49 << Equip Acc

=357 Acc
Assuming crab sushi (13% acc) has no Acc cap...

357*1.13 = 403 Acc

slightly under Acc cap for birds, no idea about wivre.



Maybe it's not quite as bad as i thought, assuming Crab sushi doesnt have an Acc cap. However I'm pretty sure it does, and is somewhere around 30-35 acc? That changes things, and I'd take capped hit rate over 2% haste

I have no idea what gear you listed, I have 4 pole merits at the moment, plan to drop down to 2 probably (Doing Promy-Vahzl without needing a 2hr is really convenient), which basically caps whatever you setup. You're also neglecting Hasso though, which seems odd as I'd think any party that is seriously comparing Amano to Polearm can swing Hasso on birds.
According to Kirschy, she was getting 50+ acc from sushi before running out of higher level targets to check against, so /shrug, I'd assume it's uncapped unless you can find proof otherwise.

In any case, I agree with capping accuracy, but if you're serious about using a pole build, you -should- be able to easily do it without needing accuracy on Usu. Comparing a 8GK Amano to a 4Pole Tomoe is already biased in so many ways, if Tomoe can even remotely keep up, that's honestly kinda sad/funny in it's own right, but may as well give the pole a measly 2-4 merits OR hasso to hit acc cap.

[Konda]

Comparing a 8GK Amano to a 4Pole Tomoe is already biased in so many ways, if Tomoe can even remotely keep up, that's honestly kinda sad/funny in it's own right, but may as well give the pole a measly 2-4 merits OR hasso to hit acc cap.

http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/a...ing/parse2.jpg

both SAM/WAR
Buffs: Chaos+Corsairs Roll, Minuet 3+4, March x2, haste, Hasso(fulltime)
Food: crab sushi / Meat miths
xp: ~37k/hr

me:

Spoiler: show

http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/a...115_010952.png

NO Polarm Merits.

Berserk Penta
Berserk Down Penta

Ejin:

Spoiler: show

Real Pic this time lol
http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/a...King/Amano.png
He has everything, lol

[FailureMidgard]

So what you're saying is ... you'd win by even more with a proper polearm build (but if you fulltime Hasso, you should cap acc without merits, without that backpiece, and without full Usu)?

Oh, and tell him he should be TPing in a Flame Ring on birds.

I'm still going to mess around with it myself.

Oh ya, I'm not surprised. Can someone get Starr or Ringthree (I think it was those 2?) in here to tell us why we shouldn't care about our polearm builds.

[Deemos]

1st thing, lolmaat on kaiten, get some gnad or mkd helm! And um, Tomoe =/= Amano, on birds, i've parsed myself with both and it's always close; but sure, if you bring COR+BRD+BRD (i probably never partied with 3 buffers) who gets more pimped up is Polearm.
But then again, who cares about merits (expecially birds, Mamool SP is better!)

[Aksannyi]

Oh ya, I'm not surprised. Can someone get Starr or Ringthree (I think it was those 2?) in here to tell us why we shouldn't care about our polearm builds.

Please don't summon Starr. It's been a beautiful BG since he's been banned.

[Andradi]

But then again, who cares about merits (expecially birds, Mamool SP is better!)

How exactly does anyone ever qualify MJSP as remotely close to birds? There are 4 shitty ass mob types there out of 7 or something.

[Iremire]

Oh hey Avelle didn't get cut off the relic SS! (Assuming that *is* Avelle and not some other mithra in Volume with the same model and Usu body!)

it is ave, and he didn't get cut out cause i wasnt there :c

[Deemos]

blah blah shitty ass mob types

I just hate feather tickle. And the chains 400ish i did clearing whole MJSP, were more fun than birds annoying wivres birds and again annoying wivres. But who cares about the fun factor while meriting which is itself super-boring wherever you go!

[Yugl]

Oh ya, I'm not surprised. Can someone get Starr or Ringthree (I think it was those 2?) in here to tell us why we shouldn't care about our polearm builds.

The one you want is Starr (But don't bring him back...).

Ringthree: Bitches about Colibri specific sets
Starr: Bitches about everything

[Tsuko_Asura]

(expecially birds, Mamool SP is better!)

MJSP won't be better until T mobs and dispelga are gone, regardless of whether or not you can keep infinite chains.

[Tulun]

Nyzul Mamools!

[Hegarty]

Oh ya, I'm not surprised. Can someone get Starr or Ringthree (I think it was those 2?) in here to tell us why we shouldn't care about our polearm builds.

Pretty sure Starr was talking about WAR using Polearm and not SAM, which is entirely different. I also think a Marinara Pizza+1, max gear Tomoe SAM would beat an Amano at Mamools etc too, basically anything non-HNM.

[pchan]

who cares about merits (expecially birds, Mamool SP is better!)

MMSJ is better for epeen, Birds are better for XP even though you have to use gimp food. The again, if you care about XP, it's nither bird or MMJ.

[Deader2818]

Clearly, if you care about EXP, you SMN burn your merits.

[Hegarty]

No, you solo Imps for 30k/hour

[Despain]

No, you solo Imps for 30k/hour

40k/hr bro. You still stuck in 2004?!?!?

[Argettio]

No, you solo Imps for 30k/hour

Don't forget to take a THF and RDM to your solo...