Completed Relic/Mythic weapons list

[Baelorn]

How is it irrelevant? If everyone has a useful secondary job, nobody gets pinned to what they don't like.

You know, as someone with BRD and BLM I must have heard that from every LS I've ever joined. If your LS fairly rotates people on jobs that's awesome but I feel comfortable saying that it isn't the norm.

[NynJa]

Wow, way to avoid the shit together...fine lets make it simple for retard Tsuko.

Player A has a DRK SAM BRD RDM, been in the LS for 6 months, and usually is on DRK
Player B has WAR PLD DRK RDM COR BRD, been in the LS for 2 yrs, usually asked to BRD or PLD.

E.Bd drops, and Player A should get it because he's always on drk for the LS.


Fixed!

[FailureMidgard]

How is it irrelevant? If everyone has a useful secondary job, nobody gets pinned to what they don't like.

I've never seen a job that managed that successfully. Furthermore (and I could be wrong now, this is just how I remember it since I haven't played much at all for the past 1.5 months) in Volume right before I stopped playing, almost everyone (I think like 1-2 people didn't) had a mage + melee, but the problem wasn't getting people willing to go BLM to an event, or even rdm or whm to an event. It was just bard. So I think you're still a bit off, and it's very likely for people to get stuck on bard when they don't want to play it. We also had the same people getting stuck on corsair, though I don't think people felt cor was quite as bad as bard, so less of a problem (but still most people didn't have it leveled).

[Baelorn]

Nooo now he's going to reply to your extreme example and not to my more average, generic scenario.

Edit: @ Nynja

[FailureMidgard]

Wow, way to avoid the shit together...fine lets make it simple for retard Tsuko.

Player A has a DRK SAM BRD RDM, been in the LS for 6 months, and usually is on DRK
Player B has WAR PLD DRK RDM COR, been in the LS for 2 yrs, usually asked to BRD or PLD.

E.Bd drops, and Player A should get it because he's always on drk for the LS.

Player B is pro. Always on bard when he doesn't have it leveled!

I assume you meant always on cor, or you meant to switch COR to BRD in the job list.

[Onorgul]

I will never understand how you still play this game, Tsuko. You still treat it, at least on forums (frankly, I think you're lying about what you do in-game but maybe there are still enough masochists to tolerate it), as possibly the most serious thing imaginable. If you devoted half the energy you do to arguing about why someone you'll never interact with should feel bad for not having a certain virtual commodity to any other task, I'd fear for the future of the planet. Maybe it's better that you burn yourself out on these kinds of petty arguments and pointless elitism.

For that matter, I don't know why anyone argues with Tsuko. His argument always boils down to, "I'm going to do it (or claim that I do it) in the way I deem most efficient and anyone who disagrees with me is effectively wrong at all times." I'm 100% certain that his arguments are based on perfect-world theorycrafting rather than basic reality, but that's ok, because that's standard BG procedure. Arguing with him is basically a waste of time because he doesn't shift his position an inch.

Seriously, though, this thread should've been titled: "ITT: Idiots with expensive weapons and assholes who will criticize them for it." And it should've been titled that years ago. I can't believe people have the energy to still get worked up by either group.

[Rionel]

I will never understand how you still play this game, Tsuko. You still treat it, at least on forums (frankly, I think you're lying about what you do in-game but maybe there are still enough masochists to tolerate it), as possibly the most serious thing imaginable. If you devoted half the energy you do to arguing about why someone you'll never interact with should feel bad for not having a certain virtual commodity to any other task, I'd fear for the future of the planet. Maybe it's better that you burn yourself out on these kinds of petty arguments and pointless elitism.

For that matter, I don't know why anyone argues with Tsuko. His argument always boils down to, "I'm going to do it (or claim that I do it) in the way I deem most efficient and anyone who disagrees with me is effectively wrong at all times." I'm 100% certain that his arguments are based on perfect-world theorycrafting rather than basic reality, but that's ok, because that's standard BG procedure. Arguing with him is basically a waste of time because he doesn't shift his position an inch.

Seriously, though, this thread should've been titled: "ITT: Idiots with expensive weapons and assholes who will criticize them for it." And it should've been titled that years ago. I can't believe people have the energy to still get worked up by either group.

It's gotten to the point where I'm actually terrified of posting any gear of my character on BG 'cause of the amount of rape-age it'll receive for not meeting BG standards, haha (definitely have to work on that).

Things could be a little more chillax once in a while. Maybe.

So about those Relic, yum yum.

[NynJa]

Player B is pro. Always on bard when he doesn't have it leveled!

I assume you meant always on cor, or you meant to switch COR to BRD in the job list.

lol...rushed the post


Though I was notified why Tsuko's such a fucking moron, to something I had no idea about. Guess morons like that just all gather together in the same LS?

Of course now Tsuko and Thorny and whoever else are probably all circle jerking on their LS how were all retards for wasting such amazing gear, etc etc etc. I'm going back to the multibox argument, that actually had some valid counters.

[fredjanx]

Spoiler: show

I will never understand how you still play this game, Tsuko. You still treat it, at least on forums (frankly, I think you're lying about what you do in-game but maybe there are still enough masochists to tolerate it), as possibly the most serious thing imaginable. If you devoted half the energy you do to arguing about why someone you'll never interact with should feel bad for not having a certain virtual commodity to any other task, I'd fear for the future of the planet. Maybe it's better that you burn yourself out on these kinds of petty arguments and pointless elitism.

For that matter, I don't know why anyone argues with Tsuko. His argument always boils down to, "I'm going to do it (or claim that I do it) in the way I deem most efficient and anyone who disagrees with me is effectively wrong at all times." I'm 100% certain that his arguments are based on perfect-world theorycrafting rather than basic reality, but that's ok, because that's standard BG procedure. Arguing with him is basically a waste of time because he doesn't shift his position an inch.

Seriously, though, this thread should've been titled: "ITT: Idiots with expensive weapons and assholes who will criticize them for it." And it should've been titled that years ago. I can't believe people have the energy to still get worked up by either group.

This post is made of win..... and not like it's wrong.
And yes, Excelior should use turban/blitz ring and get a hauberk +1.
7.5 accuracy, 7.5 attack, 4 str, and 4 dex (Ebody) won't break him.

[Tagus]

This post is made of win..... and not like it's wrong.

Totally agree. Ever hear of the psychological theory that a person's most scathing criticisms are actually a subconscious indication of their own fears about themselves?

Idiot brigade. That was a good one.

[Dooom]

It's gotten to the point where I'm actually terrified of posting any gear of my character on BG 'cause of the amount of rape-age it'll receive for not meeting BG standards, haha (definitely have to work on that).

Things could be a little more chillax once in a while. Maybe.

Most people here are quite reasonable, and don't RAGE (or troll) over the small things. The perception of BG standards and what those standards actually are for most people are quite different.

[FailureMidgard]

I will never understand how you still play this game, Tsuko. You still treat it, at least on forums (frankly, I think you're lying about what you do in-game but maybe there are still enough masochists to tolerate it), as possibly the most serious thing imaginable. If you devoted half the energy you do to arguing about why someone you'll never interact with should feel bad for not having a certain virtual commodity to any other task, I'd fear for the future of the planet. Maybe it's better that you burn yourself out on these kinds of petty arguments and pointless elitism.

For that matter, I don't know why anyone argues with Tsuko. His argument always boils down to, "I'm going to do it (or claim that I do it) in the way I deem most efficient and anyone who disagrees with me is effectively wrong at all times." I'm 100% certain that his arguments are based on perfect-world theorycrafting rather than basic reality, but that's ok, because that's standard BG procedure. Arguing with him is basically a waste of time because he doesn't shift his position an inch.

Seriously, though, this thread should've been titled: "ITT: Idiots with expensive weapons and assholes who will criticize them for it." And it should've been titled that years ago. I can't believe people have the energy to still get worked up by either group.

Sorry, disagree entirely with you. While I also disagree with Tsuko on this aspect - I think someone who sucks it up and goes bard always to LS events because he knows it's the best for the shell should potentially get priority over the people who don't have said job.
Anyway, back to disagreeing with you. This whole "it's just a game" is pretty stupid. There's some people who like being good at what they do, regardless of what it is. Playing random games are only fun if everyone is out to win. It's not even fun to play random card games like poker/spades/etc when someone is just obviously throwing games. Same shit goes into sports. Competition is fun - lose or win. Bettering yourself is fun. Going out there and playing against a handicapped team isn't fun, do you know why?
As for this game, I don't expect most players to really know exactly what is better in every scenario always, or even know how to calculate it. But expecting them to maybe look online, ask someone knowledgeable, or at least -try- to do their best isn't really asking a lot. But hey, I bet you have the same opinion to some degree. How would you feel if you were in Ein T3 and you had Sams dual wielding swords, a warrior using destroyers, and a ranger that didn't want to use a bow at all cause arrows are too expensive. There's a line somewhere for everyone, maybe you feel Tsuko's expectations are a bit too high, but a lot of people in life get fun out of taking things "seriously". It's stupid as fuck when people come here and say "it's just a game, don't take it seriously". Taking it seriously is what makes it fun, and again, I'd bet these same people like taking other aspects of their life seriously too. If you're gonna do something, do it right~

It's gotten to the point where I'm actually terrified of posting any gear of my character on BG 'cause of the amount of rape-age it'll receive for not meeting BG standards, haha (definitely have to work on that).

Things could be a little more chillax once in a while. Maybe.

So about those Relic, yum yum.

Don't think anyone will jump on you for posting and asking for advice. I think it's a good thing when people are able and willing to admit they aren't perfect, and ask others for advice. There's 2 ways to do it incorrectly:
1. Not caring, not trying, and being subpar. Then again, promoting mediocrity is the American way of life, so it's not surprising (don't worry, I'm American).
2. Arguing with people when you actually don't know. This one is worse, and personally, this is the only time I rip into people. If you're going to argue with me, have some sort of basis in fact or actual argument against it. If ya have valid math that says I'm wrong, post it, I'll gladly admit I'm wrong if I am. If it's "one time I parsed and XYZ won!" don't bother, because that's just flat out wrong.

[Baelorn]

Most people here are quite reasonable, and don't RAGE (or troll) over the small things. The perception of BG standards and what those standards actually are for most people are quite different.

Media gets trolled a lot. Otherwise post is accurate.

Hell I posted my BLM gear in media a while back and no one even replied to it.

[Therin]

Taking it seriously is what makes it fun, and again, I'd bet these same people like taking other aspects of their life seriously too. If you're gonna do something, do it right~

If I'm reading this right, you're saying it's not right for someone to tell Tsuko that he's an idiot for "taking things to seriously" because he derives fun out of taking it more seriously than it is. Basically, you're saying, since Tsuko finds it fun to be anally-retentive and a super-elitist, he should be allowed to do it and it's fine.

By that logic, people should be allowed to suck at the game too, by playing one job and one job only, as long as they find it fun.

Personally, I don't care what gear people have or don't have as long as they have ambition to improve and understand why and how doing so is important. Obviously, if the guy who refuses to shoot arrows on RNG was in my linkshell, I'd want to boot him.

I'm also not completely uptight about my strategies - min/maxing is fun and more efficient but there's a point where it's stupid to keep making sacrifices for the sake of optimization. Earlier, someone said "you shouldn't consider low haste situations for that Apoc DRK because you should always have 2x March and Haste." It was probably Tsuko that said it, I don't remember. To me, that's fucking retarded. I have an Apoc and I rarely have both of those at linkshell events. If I do, it's a miracle (or a merit party), and I love it. But usually, we don't have that many BRDs on tap that we can draw from because no one likes playing the job in the first place, and we try to be considerate of that fact when we make alliances. Does it make us less efficient? Sure, but it makes our events more bearable and fun.

About the only event that's worth min/maxing to that extent is Einherjar because it's timed to 30 minutes, but elsewhere it isn't. And seriously, FFXI doesn't revolve around Einherjar and Colibri parties like everyone seems to think.

[Baelorn]

There's taking the game seriously and then there's playing the game like it is a second job.

Also, fuck this debate. It will just end in Thornyy telling everyone they're wrong and that they suck at life if they aren't operating at maximum efficiency.

[Dooom]

By that logic, people should be allowed to suck at the game too, by playing one job and one job only, as long as they find it fun.

Yes, they should. If someone wants to play as pup/drg and never use a pet then that's up to them, if they find it fun then whatever. It only becomes an issue for me once it impacts on my gameplay, be it by them joining my linkshell, parties, campaign battles, competing with me for mobs, or whatever. I don't subscribe to the "one way to play this game" view, it's not my place to tell people how to have fun until their having fun spoils that of myself, my friends, or my linkshell.

[Iremire]

I second this.

this, if you know what you're doing you can clear all the tiers you need to get to odin with 18.
You should be able to do this now, we kill it with 14 regularly cause out of 18-20 that show up to the earlier einherjar tiers a few will always miss a tier.

I don't know if you chen and therin can't read or not, but I never said you could beat the 3 tiers with 12-14.

[FailureMidgard]

If I'm reading this right, you're saying it's not right for someone to tell Tsuko that he's an idiot for "taking things to seriously" because he derives fun out of taking it more seriously than it is. Basically, you're saying, since Tsuko finds it fun to be anally-retentive and a super-elitist, he should be allowed to do it and it's fine.

Basically, yes.

By that logic, people should be allowed to suck at the game too, by playing one job and one job only, as long as they find it fun.

Yes, and furthermore we're allowed to tell them they suck.

Personally, I don't care what gear people have or don't have as long as they have ambition to improve and understand why and how doing so is important. Obviously, if the guy who refuses to shoot arrows on RNG was in my linkshell, I'd want to boot him.

Right, and while I don't speak for Tsuko here, that's how I feel. When I first started posting on BG 2.5 years ago, my gear was pretty shitty. I didn't post a lot at first, and the math I posted was more posed as questions than facts. But I did the best I could with the gear I had available to me, and I improved. Personally, I don't expect everyone to have perfect gear and such. But TPing in a life belt is just silly. Using meat if you're at 80% accuracy is silly. And if you've dropped 100+mil on a weapon, the expectations go up. Don't get me wrong, I don't feel every relic owned should have perfect gear. I still had an Iota ring and NQ Dusk gloves when I got my Amano, but I looked at the gain vs cost, and felt that was ok. But gearing completely incorrectly is an entirely different story.

I'm also not completely uptight about my strategies - min/maxing is fun and more efficient but there's a point where it's stupid to keep making sacrifices for the sake of optimization. Earlier, someone said "you shouldn't consider low haste situations for that Apoc DRK because you should always have 2x March and Haste." It was probably Tsuko that said it, I don't remember. To me, that's fucking retarded. I have an Apoc and I rarely have both of those at linkshell events. If I do, it's a miracle (or a merit party), and I love it. But usually, we don't have that many BRDs on tap that we can draw from because no one likes playing the job in the first place, and we try to be considerate of that fact when we make alliances. Does it make us less efficient? Sure, but it makes our events more bearable and fun.

I don't see how playing a melee without 1 bard and 1 mage is fun. I'd rather play bard than be stuck on Sam with inadequate support. I consider a cor or dnc in the party a luxury (though honestly, most all our dyna/ein/etc had at least 1 or the other in at least 3 DD parties), but really, if you don't have a bard your melee is hardly even worth taking.

About the only event that's worth min/maxing to that extent is Einherjar because it's timed to 30 minutes, but elsewhere it isn't. And seriously, FFXI doesn't revolve around Einherjar and Colibri parties like everyone seems to think.

I don't understand this concept at all. First off, I don't see how a 30min timer changes if it's worth it. In limbus, having elegy makes tanking various mobs 10x easier (esp in zones where some of them can easily break 1k on TP moves). In dynamis, clearing more (non-city, or lowman city) gives direct benefit in more currency and more AF. On ZNM, if you have a lot of people, being able to just zerg them on pop is a huge time saver. I cringe even thinking about groups that pull the troll ZNM to a zoneline if they have more than 2 pops. Bring 2 bards and have them hop parties every time, and you can just zerg it where it pops and kill it in <60 seconds. It seems unlikely to go very well with no bards (though I'll admit I've never tried). Kirin is the same way. BV2, same way. HNMs without elegy, same thing (to the point that /blm is the preferred sub on khim/cerb...). PW you want bards. Sarameya you want bards. Salvage you obviously don't want bards because Pchan said so...
I think the only time I don't care about a bard is if a fight is either being kited or BLM burned. If you have a tank or melee, you really should have a bard...

I dunno, I do think there is a point that optimizing becomes too tedious. Worrying with items that only work while paralyzed, trying to change out 2-5 accuracy to always sit at exactly 95% on every different mamool type, etc. But if someone wanted to do that, I wouldn't tell them to chill out and not take the game so seriously, because again, I think it's a normal human thing to want to be the best you can reasonably be. It's why I found enjoyment in sports, in school, and just in life in general...

Also, I agree with Dooom. If they want to be bad off on their own and it doesn't affect me, fine. If it affects me, then I'll be annoyed/upset. Otherwise, I'll just make fun of them 'cause I'm an asshole, but in the end I don't care if they want to be bad - but that doesn't mean I won't say anything.

[Onorgul]

Anyway, back to disagreeing with you. This whole "it's just a game" is pretty stupid. There's some people who like being good at what they do, regardless of what it is. Playing random games are only fun if everyone is out to win. It's not even fun to play random card games like poker/spades/etc when someone is just obviously throwing games. Same shit goes into sports. Competition is fun - lose or win. Bettering yourself is fun. Going out there and playing against a handicapped team isn't fun, do you know why?
As for this game, I don't expect most players to really know exactly what is better in every scenario always, or even know how to calculate it. But expecting them to maybe look online, ask someone knowledgeable, or at least -try- to do their best isn't really asking a lot. But hey, I bet you have the same opinion to some degree. How would you feel if you were in Ein T3 and you had Sams dual wielding swords, a warrior using destroyers, and a ranger that didn't want to use a bow at all cause arrows are too expensive. There's a line somewhere for everyone, maybe you feel Tsuko's expectations are a bit too high, but a lot of people in life get fun out of taking things "seriously". It's stupid as fuck when people come here and say "it's just a game, don't take it seriously". Taking it seriously is what makes it fun, and again, I'd bet these same people like taking other aspects of their life seriously too. If you're gonna do something, do it right~

I wonder if you expect me to disagree with you?

Well, I will, at least on one point. Final Fantasy XI isn't really a game. It's a chatroom with a lot of tedious nonsense to keep you occupied when people aren't talking. "Games" generally have a goal, a purpose, a means of saying "I won," or at least a clear ending. MMOs aren't like that at all. Go look up Progress Quest some time and imagine letting that run while chatting with people on AIM or Skype and, in the long run, that's what FFXI and WoW and every other MMO on the planet is. And I like MMOs, but I recognize them as the unapologetic timesinks that they are occasionally punctuated with some trivial victory.

Anyhow, getting back to not disagreeing with you, I think the big problem is that you are making an argument from the most extreme position possible. Samurai using swords? C'mon, now, where did I even begin to intimate such a thing? I won't disagree that the guy misusing Apocalypse is wrong. But, and this is the important thing, I really just cannot bring myself to care. IF he was in my linkshell and IF his Apocalypse was acquired with a substantial amount of my assistance, THEN AND ONLY THEN would I feel it worth my time to launch into a discussion of why his Ares's Cuirass, Ace's Helm, and Ulthalam's Ring are an insult to the weapon and to good Dark Knights everywhere.

But that's not what happens in this thread. In fact, precisely the opposite happens. Those people who should feel most irritated and ashamed that their LS member is poorly using a relic weapon are the first to defend his inexplicable choices, whereas those who'll never encounter that person or, at worse, will only see it sitting in Whitegate, are the ones who spend precious minutes out of their day ranting that Apocalypse without Adaman Hauberk is a waste. Where's the logic? Where do people find the energy? And Tsuko is one of the worst about this. If someone posts a picture of their gear, his first instinct is to explain what's wrong with it, regardless of whether his criticisms are tenable or asked for, regardless of how marginal the criticism may be.

After the 10,000th time a Creationist has told you that Satan installed fake dinosaur bones to trick the unfaithful, surely we'd all realize that it's not a fruitful line of argument, right? I'm not saying that Tsuko's arguments are as nonsensical as those, not by a long shot, but even the tiniest little detail (like using Shura Togi instead of Mirke Fauxbergeon or Usukane Haramaki) tends to result in some comment from him and, in many cases, it's hard to pin down if it would make a meaningful change. I don't object to people taking this chatroom seriously, because I certainly treat it with a certain level of gravity, but pitching a fit every time another moron gets a relic weapon is mind-numbing. There's "serious" and there's "this is a life-or-death situation!" FFXI is not and never will be the latter, but you'd never know it with how vehemently some people argue in this thread. And that was my point.

[Iremire]

I have an Apoc and I rarely have both of those at linkshell events. If I do, it's a miracle (or a merit party), and I love it.

I just don't see the point in you playing the melee job then when you can't even play it to its full potential. I'm sure that 2 Solid DD parties with brd / Mage / DD's will do better then your 3 sometimes hasted not marched DD parties. Maybe I'm just anal about a proper dd party, but if I don't have a brd in a melee party then i'm going to come brd rather then have the entire party be mediocre and people in your and other linkshells should understand at least that much.

Edit: Failure beat me to it :/