Completed Relic/Mythic weapons list

[Fievel]

I missed that memo. Why exactly would exalibur be better than 2~3 attacks?

Please don't start this debate again

[Neosutra]

real paladin doesnt need atonement to hold hate, etc etc,

excal additional effect help kill mob faster than 2-3 atk etc

Not on anything the 2-3 atk sword can actually TP on effectively.

Spoiler: show

Last lolOdin parse, Joytoy vs Excal, both plds in optimal gear (and I had hate most of the fight, meaning I could have done more).

Neosutra = Joytoy/Aegis. Morgoth = Excal/Aegis
Damage Summary
Player Total Dmg Damage % Melee Dmg Range Dmg Abil. Dmg WSkill Dmg Spell Dmg Other Dmg
Morgoth 13327 13.19 % 5921 0 735 4980 0 1691
Neosutra 15390 15.23 % 5712 0 1054 8608 0 16

Other Magical Damage (Additional Effects and Spikes)
Morgoth 1691 6 281.83 0 0 0.00 0 0 0.00
Neosutra 0 0 0.00 0 0 0.00 16 1 16.00

Melee Damage
Player Melee Dmg Melee % Hit/Miss M.Acc % M.Low/Hi M.Avg #Crit C.Low/Hi C.Avg Crit%
Morgoth 5921 44.43 % 162/11 93.64 % 7/115 33.47 12 52/92 75.08 7.41 %
Neosutra 5712 37.12 % 276/11 96.17 % 2/34 18.79 21 31/60 43.81 7.61 %

Weaponskill Damage
Player WSkill Dmg WSkill % Hit/Miss WS.Acc % WS.Low/Hi WS.Avg

Neosutra 8608 55.93 % 16/0 100.00 % 363/562 538.00
- Atonement 8608 100.00 % 16/0 100.00 % 363/562 538.00

Morgoth 4980 37.37 % 9/0 100.00 % 484/562 553.33
- Atonement 4980 100.00 % 9/0 100.00 % 484/562 553.33

Now upgrade that to OA2-3 and it isnt even a competition.

However I've already said in past debates: Excal destroys OAT/OA2-3 on harder stuff (where OAT/OA2-3 will be hitting for 0 a lot, or feeding too much TP, and for mobs where Atonement is heavily resisted or immune).

[Chen]

you swung over 62% more than him joyeuse only accounts for 45% of that, and you apparently had hate most of the fight...

he's one of three things, a tard, not trying(idle in something other than haste/v.belt) or not getting rebuffed as fast of you, the 20 autoswings he's missing would've brought him up to equalling you in the parse.

i'm only being picky cause my FFXI won't connect

[FailureMidgard]

Not on anything the 2-3 atk sword can actually TP on effectively.

Spoiler: show

Last lolOdin parse, Joytoy vs Excal, both plds in optimal gear (and I had hate most of the fight, meaning I could have done more).

Neosutra = Joytoy/Aegis. Morgoth = Excal/Aegis
Damage Summary
Player Total Dmg Damage % Melee Dmg Range Dmg Abil. Dmg WSkill Dmg Spell Dmg Other Dmg
Morgoth 13327 13.19 % 5921 0 735 4980 0 1691
Neosutra 15390 15.23 % 5712 0 1054 8608 0 16

Other Magical Damage (Additional Effects and Spikes)
Morgoth 1691 6 281.83 0 0 0.00 0 0 0.00
Neosutra 0 0 0.00 0 0 0.00 16 1 16.00

Melee Damage
Player Melee Dmg Melee % Hit/Miss M.Acc % M.Low/Hi M.Avg #Crit C.Low/Hi C.Avg Crit%
Morgoth 5921 44.43 % 162/11 93.64 % 7/115 33.47 12 52/92 75.08 7.41 %
Neosutra 5712 37.12 % 276/11 96.17 % 2/34 18.79 21 31/60 43.81 7.61 %

Weaponskill Damage
Player WSkill Dmg WSkill % Hit/Miss WS.Acc % WS.Low/Hi WS.Avg

Neosutra 8608 55.93 % 16/0 100.00 % 363/562 538.00
- Atonement 8608 100.00 % 16/0 100.00 % 363/562 538.00

Morgoth 4980 37.37 % 9/0 100.00 % 484/562 553.33
- Atonement 4980 100.00 % 9/0 100.00 % 484/562 553.33

Now upgrade that to OA2-3 and it isnt even a competition.

However I've already said in past debates: Excal destroys OAT/OA2-3 on harder stuff (where OAT/OA2-3 will be hitting for 0 a lot, or feeding too much TP, and for mobs where Atonement is heavily resisted or immune).

224 delay, 45%? OAT.
233 delay.
March+Haste+20 gear~= 47% haste, 5% DA?

Joy: 118.72 delay. (60/118.72)*1.45 + (60/118.72)*.55*.05 = .7467
Excal: 123.49 delay. (60/123.49)*1.05 = .5102
(.7467-.5102)/.5102 = .4635. Joyeuse expected to swing 46% more often.
(287-173)/173 = .6590. You swung 66% more often.

Granted this isn't an OA2-3, but it seems something else is amiss, so I wouldn't just quote a parse and try to use it as proof.

[Demosthenes11]

my rdm with joytoy outparsed a thf once, rdm therefore is a better DD

I see no problems with that logic

[Neosutra]

Did I use a parse as proof? I simply showed a comparison between the two with 2 equally geared Plds. Obviously stuff like buff recast skews he parse, but even with that they are -extremely close-, and that's with just OAT, not OA2-3. His TP gear is actually better than mine (dusk+1 gloves rather than homam hands). Odds are his whm was slower hasting him after dispel than mine was, but the point remains the same:

Point is, as I stated before: Joytoy already put up a good competition again excal, on anything they can both get TP on adequately and doesnt resist atonement. OA2-3 beats excal on anything that meets those criteria.

Shut the fuck up with the stupid ass "my rdm outparsed a thf once" bullshit, that isnt even close to a proper analogy. Go fuck yourself and die of herpes. And in before "umad", this is me perky and cheerful.

[Demosthenes11]

pretty shitty Excalibur if he is gearing himself like a joytoy

[Neosutra]

Turban
Ares
DG+1
Ancient Torque
Homam Legs
Homam feet
Speed belt
Cerb+1
Rajas/Toreadors
Suppa/Brutal.

With capped acc, what's shitty about that Excal/joytoy build (difference between our sets was DG+1)?

You're talking out of your ass like usual. Go away.

[Nightfyre]

Other arguments aside... Joyeuse is just a hair faster than OA2-3 after accounting for multihit procs, and it still has higher damage. So nothing's changed for PLD's as far as weapon hierarchy. Excal > Joyeuse > everything else.

[Neosutra]

25 damage, 264 delay, OA2-3

40 40 20% spread (uncertain, havent seen tests).

1.8 average hits per attack round.

35 damage, 224 delay, OAT

55/45 spread.

1.45 average swings per attack round.

20% attack round difference with 16% sword delay difference. OA2-3 should still be faster, though DPS difference may make total DoT similar.

Am I doing something wrong, where are you getting Joytoy being faster?

(and your Hierarchy of swords depends entirely on what you're fighting, as pointed out in this thread).

[Demosthenes11]

cerb+1 with acc ring and excal lol

[Nightfyre]

25 damage, 264 delay, OA2-3

40 40 20% spread (uncertain, havent seen tests).

1.8 average hits per attack round.

35 damage, 224 delay, OAT

55/45 spread.

1.45 average swings per attack round.

20% attack round difference with 16% sword delay difference. OA2-3 should still be faster, though DPS difference may make total DoT similar.

Am I doing something wrong, where are you getting Joytoy being faster?

(and your Hierarchy of swords depends entirely on what you're fighting, as pointed out in this thread).

It's 50:30:20. I was sticking to DD swords, you guys can hammer out the rest on your own time.

[Neosutra]

Never seen that confirmed anywhere on the spread, but would change things a bit. I would actually prefer that as it would mean less magians for me (depending on how the paths go to 2-4 next time).

As for Demo's continued trolling: Options for Excal pld on back are Cerb+1, Culc, Gigant mantle. Cerb+1 and Gigant mantle difference in DoT is minimal for excal DPS. 20 more HP on your added effect procs versus difference in pDif, fstr, and emnity during TP phase. Haven't worked it out, but Cerb+1 probably wins by a good margin. Acc ring is debatable against blitz for pld for that fight, though I suppose one could spellcast a

"if blind/not buff active = sushi, equip acc set (culc mantle/toreadors), else equip Cerb+1/blitz".

Saying one is lulz to the other in that fight is retarded, so again: die of herpes please.

[Ohaigaiz]

DD swords

http://images.bluegartr.com/forum/im...ns/mmithra.png

[Innuendo]

Never seen that confirmed anywhere on the spread, but would change things a bit. I would actually prefer that as it would mean less magians for me (depending on how the paths go to 2-4 next time).

http://robonosto.blogspot.com/2010/0...tack-rate.html

His conclusion:

To put it another way, the ratio of 1-3 attacks could be 50:30:20 for Magian "occasionally attacks 2-3 times" weapons (generalizing from hand-to-hand to all weapons), and that's what I'll stand by until other data persuasively rejects that working hypothesis.

[Nightfyre]

http://images.bluegartr.com/forum/im...ns/mmithra.png

You know what I mean.

In addition to what was posted above, there's some data around page 72 of the Magians thread.

[Neosutra]

Nice to know ^^.

[Spartan]

I'm just wondering... when Lv cap will be 99 how many Max HP a PLD will have. With that and the next steps of Trials, things should be interesting for Excal owners, I guess...

[shepardG]

Ohaigaiz, you have made me LOL in public yet again.

[Iremire]

Muhnjob Phoenix Yoichinoyumi

http://i37.tinypic.com/1zwi5b6.png