Completed Relic/Mythic weapons list

[EjinCaitsith]

I think the key difference is really that you can start from the base weapon of a empy and finish the 85 version in under 1 week. Even if you have all the currency lined up and the attes+frag you're still in for a 2 week wait then the dread of trials, which is just about the most boring thing in the game.

But ya, they are still a massive achievement(more so Tahrongi ones) and should be recognized as such.

[FailureMidgard]

Addressing the majority of your post first, then quoted portion: I had the gil to do a relic, now I have $3000 more and a better weapon, so obviously I'm going to support Empyrean a bit. However, I don't think you of all people would deny the ability to make 750k/h, one ws per 30 seconds, or one kill per 90 seconds: They're all very reasonable estimates for a higher end player. You can accurately say MOST people won't make 750k/h, but most people won't be trioing chloris pops/kills every 1-2 hours either so I don't see it as a valid counterpoint. I could be wrong, maybe you think they're bad estimates. If so, feel free to correct me. That said, if you do agree they're fair estimates, then how can you call a Tahrongi empyrean notably easier? I made a clear statement regarding La Theine at the end of my post(Could mention konschtat, but it's more or less the same as briareus and who cares about staves).

Regarding the quote, did you have some form of key items saved? I was cleaving 1.5-2 families at a time throughout my farming, and while the start was nice because of misc items people already had.. after a bit you start to cap on specific key items and floor additionals. I easily went 2 hours between pops for the last 25 buds, and any key items saved from before the farming still cost time to obtain. I went on a streak where it took me 5 hours to get a mossy adamantoise shell, despite all of my characters having 3/4 sets.. everything in there is waste. You can debate the value of people holding key items for you as well, but it's still value and requires additional characters present. You could even say a Tahrongi Empyrean is only 75% of a relic nowadays, but byne+shell relics back in the day were at least that much different from bronze+shell.. and you don't call them fake.

One last thing I feel obligated to mention regarding this debate:
Next patch, empyreans will likely need at least 50 more items from another Abyssea NM. Relics will likely need 2000 more weaponskill killshots. While it's difficult to predict the way this will go, SE could very well be planning on this as a measure of evening difficulty out.

Oh, and most importantly, this was only brought up because Nynja is butthurt that empyreans are outdoing relics after the time he put into his relics. While this isn't bad, it sure does look douchey to tell people their weapons don't deserve a spot in the thread because they're marginally easier. The difference between a relic and a tahrongi empyrean is less than the difference between a tahrongi empyrean and a la theine one.

I think all of your estimates are ok for high end/maximum efficiency. My issue is your entire post felt like propaganda attempting to skew reality. 90minutes per lower tier NM? C'mon, that's you killing it, standing there while doing nothing, then killing it again. That isn't efficient, it isn't a good use of time. If you want to argue for efficiency of gil making and stuff, why would you not go there with window open, kill PHs until it pops, warp once it's dead, then come back later? Don't get me wrong, I didn't do this - but I also couldn't stand to grind out gil farming for even what it'd take to make 50mil. I definitely could make what you are quoting - but I have no need for gil, am sitting on 25mil, and generally end up positive on gil just from doing misc bullshit (actually, I don't think it's hard to make 1mil+/hr, though may be harder to sustain due to buyers/etc). And in all this, you ignore the other benefits. Maybe it didn't matter for you, and it may matter less for us on future Tahrongi Emps, but we never bothered farming Tahrongi before really, so it was nice that a lot of us that wanted Goading Belts got them - these manhours you keep tossing out just ignore that. It ignores the fact that I've personally done 3 Ulhuadshi pops, and have no desire or plans to ever do an Emp that uses that (and I have another 2 popsets on me atm, waiting to pop them until the guy doing it finishes his Chloris, which should just take 1 more farming session), and that he is in no way using his LS by lotting shit that I'd let hit the ground, nor is it even remotely fair to argue the manhours spent when there are other gains, which there are a ton while doing Empyreans, and more while doing Tahrongi than Latheine. Also, you're ignoring the fact that you probably got just as many Glavoid pops (who also isn't hard), so if you had someone doing Gaxe say, you coulda added 1 more person and finished the "bitch" stage of 2 different Empyreans with very little added time. It's not even really worth doing that in LaTheine, though may be possible.

Farming gil is more dry, yes, and the second stage is easier to obtain help. This doesn't change that the first stage is still total horseshit, especially for Tahrongi. I've said multiple times that relics are easier with all factors considered, but people keep skimming over the points I made in my original post and only picking out excerpts that fit their argument. All I said was that they require similar man-hours and shouldn't be considered notably different in difficulty.. which is true, though there is no denying it's more interesting doing an empyrean than farming gil for that long consecutively. It seems you agree with this anyway, my problem is with the amount of people skimming my original post and misquoting me.

Don't think I'm misquoting you, and I don't think Tahrongi is near as bad as you make it sound if you can sell Goadings (or Augur Gloves). I just think you're skewing it and calling Empyreans "more interesting", when the fact of the matter is they are leaps and bounds easier than relics, because so much of it you can group up for - not use your LS for, whereas the only parts in Dyna that that applies to are the 2 parts you just happened to entirely leave out of your initial analysis. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you fragments are a joke because shadow items are still good - the entirety of the 2nd phase of an Emp is the exact same, the manhours spent on it honestly should count as 0.

As for next patch - I expect them to be a total joke, and almost not even worth mentioning. They may be made slightly harder by the fact a lot of LSes may have multiple Masamunes, but it seems quite likely the NMs will drop shit for AF3+2 again, and as long as other people have motivation to make popsets and pop it for that, it's again silly. I know you (Thorny) have a ton of jobs like me, no idea how many you care about/want to do AF3+2 for, but I'm sure you're getting a lot done at the same time as Empyrean, and I know for a fact after I finished Cirien Croin for Masamune, I still went and made more popsets to get pieces for other jobs...I plan to finish Masamune trials while putting in almost 0 extra effort, and am debating whether I will even do Amano trials. IF they swap Amano and Masamune trials, somehow I expect to get them both done - because the fact of the matter is you are dead wrong, and these 2nd tier drop trials for Empyreans take absolutely nothing to complete.

[Byrthnoth]

God, relics are too damned easy. Lets make a thread for Mythics exclusively, because they're obviously the hardest ones to complete. Your Empyreals and Relics don't deserve my viewing.

Seriously though, who really gives a shit? The judgment call was made a while ago that we would avoid making an Empyreal thread/adding it to this until they were "complete." Lets stick by that regardless of how hard we feel Empyreals are, because the last thing I want to see is 700,000 Masamunes that WS in HP gear and Haste.

[Plow]

I think all of your estimates are ok for high end/maximum efficiency. My issue is your entire post felt like propaganda attempting to skew reality. 90minutes per lower tier NM? C'mon, that's you killing it, standing there while doing nothing, then killing it again. That isn't efficient, it isn't a good use of time. If you want to argue for efficiency of gil making and stuff, why would you not go there with window open, kill PHs until it pops, warp once it's dead, then come back later? Don't get me wrong, I didn't do this - but I also couldn't stand to grind out gil farming for even what it'd take to make 50mil. I definitely could make what you are quoting - but I have no need for gil, am sitting on 25mil, and generally end up positive on gil just from doing misc bullshit (actually, I don't think it's hard to make 1mil+/hr, though may be harder to sustain due to buyers/etc). And in all this, you ignore the other benefits. Maybe it didn't matter for you, and it may matter less for us on future Tahrongi Emps, but we never bothered farming Tahrongi before really, so it was nice that a lot of us that wanted Goading Belts got them - these manhours you keep tossing out just ignore that. It ignores the fact that I've personally done 3 Ulhuadshi pops, and have no desire or plans to ever do an Emp that uses that (and I have another 2 popsets on me atm, waiting to pop them until the guy doing it finishes his Chloris, which should just take 1 more farming session), and that he is in no way using his LS by lotting shit that I'd let hit the ground, nor is it even remotely fair to argue the manhours spent when there are other gains, which there are a ton while doing Empyreans, and more while doing Tahrongi than Latheine. Also, you're ignoring the fact that you probably got just as many Glavoid pops (who also isn't hard), so if you had someone doing Gaxe say, you coulda added 1 more person and finished the "bitch" stage of 2 different Empyreans with very little added time. It's not even really worth doing that in LaTheine, though may be possible.



Don't think I'm misquoting you, and I don't think Tahrongi is near as bad as you make it sound if you can sell Goadings (or Augur Gloves). I just think you're skewing it and calling Empyreans "more interesting", when the fact of the matter is they are leaps and bounds easier than relics, because so much of it you can group up for - not use your LS for, whereas the only parts in Dyna that that applies to are the 2 parts you just happened to entirely leave out of your initial analysis. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you fragments are a joke because shadow items are still good - the entirety of the 2nd phase of an Emp is the exact same, the manhours spent on it honestly should count as 0.

As for next patch - I expect them to be a total joke, and almost not even worth mentioning. They may be made slightly harder by the fact a lot of LSes may have multiple Masamunes, but it seems quite likely the NMs will drop shit for AF3+2 again, and as long as other people have motivation to make popsets and pop it for that, it's again silly. I know you (Thorny) have a ton of jobs like me, no idea how many you care about/want to do AF3+2 for, but I'm sure you're getting a lot done at the same time as Empyrean, and I know for a fact after I finished Cirien Croin for Masamune, I still went and made more popsets to get pieces for other jobs...I plan to finish Masamune trials while putting in almost 0 extra effort, and am debating whether I will even do Amano trials. IF they swap Amano and Masamune trials, somehow I expect to get them both done - because the fact of the matter is you are dead wrong, and these 2nd tier drop trials for Empyreans take absolutely nothing to complete.

Would think you of all people would realize that a. A remotely competent group of 5 can farm a few hundred coins from literally any pre-cop dynamis now, and B. even a retarded person can make 500k/hr these days with the prices morons are paying for certain abyssea trash mob drops.

[FailureMidgard]

Would think you of all people would realize that a. A remotely competent group of 5 can farm a few hundred coins from literally any pre-cop dynamis now, and B. even a retarded person can make 500k/hr these days with the prices morons are paying for certain abyssea trash mob drops.

a: No shit, how does this matter? Took me ~10 days to finish Masamune. I could do a whole 3 Dynamis runs in that time. So congratulations, if you want to push your relic off for 6 months, you can farm it all! Furthermore, how is this remotely fair? Let me guess, you're gonna argue relic armor right? It's obviously the same as AF3+2 items right? Wait no, it isn't. Fact of the matter is I, as well as most my shell, would gladly (and have gladly) popped several NMs for AF3+2 without any regard for Empyrean Items. I will gladly go farm the pops for Ulhuadshi solo, and then pop him, and could care less about the Empyrean item, and am actually quite happy a friend in shell is going to make use of them. On the other hand, going to Dynamis with 5 people...really, the only desire -is- that currency, which, 5 people getting 400 bronze @1.3m = the 500k/hr/person you just mentioned(assuming 2hrs in zone), so it isn't even an efficient way of doing it. You're better off farming gil and buying it. If you're suggesting go and take all the currency for yourself on 5 people's time, well, see my Ulhuadshi comment, that's nowhere near the same as taking all the currency from a Dyna run.
As for your 'b', I have a friend who regularly does shit with "any moron"s, and they still struggle to not time-out of Abyssea in exp parties starting with 90 minutes. I also regularly see JP allies on T1 NMs with 12 different pearls. Sorry, but you're just wrong, these morons really have no idea what they are doing, and don't make money at all. In the meanwhile, I've made 2.5m today so far for a little over an hr of work (prob about 80 minutes), so I do realize how easy gil is to make now - that and lower currency prices are def making the initial stages of relics easier to make - but relic trials alone are more effort for less reward than -any- empyrean, because 1 stage is free, so many stages are shared and take way less "dedicated" manhours than Thorny is implying, and the Tahrongi ones have a lot of other stuff going for them outside of the Empyrean, whereas the Latheine ones are significantly easier, but have less going for em (least Briareus can make Juogis).

As for Byrth, I dunno who you're even responding to - Nynja I guess? I don't care what people or mods decide should be posted here, shouldn't bother anyone - by all means I think people should be going for Emps right now, and relics are basically obsolete in the current game, but I think it's silly and borderline insulting to suggest they require the same amount of work/effort, and I think Thorny's comparison was really biased...just like I don't care what people decide to be posted (it's the same entertainment value for me to read either way), I don't see why anyone should be that upset over this discussion taking place...

[NynJa]

You're also on servers where you have fucking gimps wanting to throw away gil for epic garbage like that...Sell an atma on gilga? unheard of

[S N K]

You're also on servers where you have fucking gimps wanting to throw away gil for epic garbage like that...Sell an atma on gilga? unheard of

I thought pretty much all servers had that happening? >_>

[FailureMidgard]

You're also on servers where you have fucking gimps wanting to throw away gil for epic garbage like that...Sell an atma on gilga? unheard of

I've never sold an atma, but I'm sorry, the reason you don't sell atma is because you probably don't try/advertise it. Also, I think a lot of people buying atma are specifically not gimps - the gimps think they should keep their 500k instead of getting an amazing atma they'll never get otherwise, which is just dumb. I don't think selling atma is even good gil at all unless you have a ton of buyers (though I could be wrong here), so ya...selling blue proc drops is the good money.

[solanis]

I've never sold an atma, but I'm sorry, the reason you don't sell atma is because you probably don't try/advertise it. Also, I think a lot of people buying atma are specifically not gimps - the gimps think they should keep their 500k instead of getting an amazing atma they'll never get otherwise, which is just dumb. I don't think selling atma is even good gil at all unless you have a ton of buyers (though I could be wrong here), so ya...selling blue proc drops is the good money.

I wouldn't advocate going out of your way to sell atma, but if, say, you're getting the atma already for a friend, it's easy to fill up spots in the alliance and rack up cash for literally no loss to yourself or wasted time. a surprising number of people are still missing basic atma, and even the whitegate gimps here understand that there is no single gear upgrade that will outweigh atma, so they fork out easily.

and I agree with you on the empyrean weapons, they are not even the same league.

[Plow]

a: No shit, how does this matter? Took me ~10 days to finish Masamune. I could do a whole 3 Dynamis runs in that time. So congratulations, if you want to push your relic off for 6 months, you can farm it all! Furthermore, how is this remotely fair? Let me guess, you're gonna argue relic armor right? It's obviously the same as AF3+2 items right? Wait no, it isn't. Fact of the matter is I, as well as most my shell, would gladly (and have gladly) popped several NMs for AF3+2 without any regard for Empyrean Items. I will gladly go farm the pops for Ulhuadshi solo, and then pop him, and could care less about the Empyrean item, and am actually quite happy a friend in shell is going to make use of them. On the other hand, going to Dynamis with 5 people...really, the only desire -is- that currency, which, 5 people getting 400 bronze @1.3m = the 500k/hr/person you just mentioned(assuming 2hrs in zone), so it isn't even an efficient way of doing it. You're better off farming gil and buying it. If you're suggesting go and take all the currency for yourself on 5 people's time, well, see my Ulhuadshi comment, that's nowhere near the same as taking all the currency from a Dyna run.
As for your 'b', I have a friend who regularly does shit with "any moron"s, and they still struggle to not time-out of Abyssea in exp parties starting with 90 minutes. I also regularly see JP allies on T1 NMs with 12 different pearls. Sorry, but you're just wrong, these morons really have no idea what they are doing, and don't make money at all. In the meanwhile, I've made 2.5m today so far for a little over an hr of work (prob about 80 minutes), so I do realize how easy gil is to make now - that and lower currency prices are def making the initial stages of relics easier to make - but relic trials alone are more effort for less reward than -any- empyrean, because 1 stage is free, so many stages are shared and take way less "dedicated" manhours than Thorny is implying, and the Tahrongi ones have a lot of other stuff going for them outside of the Empyrean, whereas the Latheine ones are significantly easier, but have less going for em (least Briareus can make Juogis).

As for Byrth, I dunno who you're even responding to - Nynja I guess? I don't care what people or mods decide should be posted here, shouldn't bother anyone - by all means I think people should be going for Emps right now, and relics are basically obsolete in the current game, but I think it's silly and borderline insulting to suggest they require the same amount of work/effort, and I think Thorny's comparison was really biased...just like I don't care what people decide to be posted (it's the same entertainment value for me to read either way), I don't see why anyone should be that upset over this discussion taking place...

Exping on amoebans or limule is hard.

Note where I said even retards *CAN*, not *DO*.

Further, while the time restriction is a bitch, that doesn't make it more difficult, it makes it so you have to be a little more patient if you want to do it that way. Of course, I suppose patience is something unreasonable to expect from a typical ffxi player...


Also, yeah, if you're doing mobs that have good atmas, you can shout and sell your open spots for that shit in a matter of minutes.

[Thorny]

I wasn't even talking about selling atma, though that's pretty lucrative as well. Friend of mine came back to the game this week and needs VV+RR, left a seacom up for the day and sifted through tells just now.. got about 7m of atma buyers <.<

[Appie]

I personally wonder what SE's plans are: will they add a new WS that blows Empyrean WS away? After all it is a "lv85" weapon skill (technically anyway), just a damn good one. This could very well be the "Raging Fists" of the new era and the new "Asurans" is still on the way for everybody. Or maybe at some point SE will add Victory Smite to Spharai. Though I doubt this, it wouldn't surprise me in lv95 or lv99 cap. SE is up to something at least for relics or else I seriously wonder why they even bothered with relic trials in the first place.

But if SE wants a new toy at the top, so be it. Just tell me now, so I can stop doing trials =)

[Kirschy]

But if SE wants a new toy at the top, so be it. Just tell me now, so I can stop doing trials =)

This.

[NynJa]

I wasn't even talking about selling atma, though that's pretty lucrative as well. Friend of mine came back to the game this week and needs VV+RR, left a seacom up for the day and sifted through tells just now.. got about 7m of atma buyers <.<

Consider yourself lucky to be on a server full of tards who dont know how easy this game is I guess.
I just went through seacoms, theres nothing...theres a bunch of internal abyssea comments (boots/seals lots), a couple "want to buy empyrian items" comments (Briareus helm 600k each, Mict Habit 20k each, Glavoid Shell 500k each, Itpapa Scale 500k each), and some other outdated shit (KO, manteel, choco cards lol).

So lets see, Empyrian Weapons, presuming you go the buying route (HIGHLY unnecessary), you're looking at 50-60 mil (nowhere NEAR the cost of the cheapest relic), once again demonstrating how pathetically easy Empyrians are.

[Thorny]

Nobody sells materials for 500k, sorry. I had buy for 750k up for a while and still didn't get a single piece sold to me for either stage.

I meant a sell seacom on myself, not a buy seacom on others regarding atma, btw.

[solanis]

Consider yourself lucky to be on a server full of tards who dont know how easy this game is I guess.
I just went through seacoms, theres nothing...theres a bunch of internal abyssea comments (boots/seals lots), a couple "want to buy empyrian items" comments (Briareus helm 600k each, Mict Habit 20k each, Glavoid Shell 500k each, Itpapa Scale 500k each), and some other outdated shit (KO, manteel, choco cards lol).

So lets see, Empyrian Weapons, presuming you go the buying route (HIGHLY unnecessary), you're looking at 50-60 mil (nowhere NEAR the cost of the cheapest relic), once again demonstrating how pathetically easy Empyrians are.

I understand you're arguing... sort of the same basic idea... but you're missing the whole point. making a relic is either a solitary or selfish endeavor for the most part, while doing an empyrean provides utility to your friends who are helping you. outside of some really arbitrary and propaganda-esque number crunching, that is what it boils down to: you could make an empyrean as a by-product of helping yourself and your friends with gear upgrades and gil should the desire strike you, but a relic won't materialize in the same way.

additionally, buying atma is not only not retarded, but also incredibly efficient for certain types of players and people. are you a moron for buying food off the AH when it's easy to make it yourself? apparently so by your logic, idk.

[Jex]

I personally wonder what SE's plans are: will they add a new WS that blows Empyrean WS away? After all it is a "lv85" weapon skill (technically anyway), just a damn good one. This could very well be the "Raging Fists" of the new era and the new "Asurans" is still on the way for everybody. Or maybe at some point SE will add Victory Smite to Spharai. Though I doubt this, it wouldn't surprise me in lv95 or lv99 cap. SE is up to something at least for relics or else I seriously wonder why they even bothered with relic trials in the first place.

I agree 100% w/ this...

[gilgam]

now Empyrean>Relic/Mythic

after December update,they will remake Dynamis/Salvage for LV90.
also,Lvcap stop @90 for a while because of remaking contents.

SE said "we know other weapons better than Relic/Mythics,but if you keep doing trials it's gonna beat other weapons in the future"
not sure other weapons means Empyrean or not.
so I think new trial request items from new "Dynamis/Salvages".

[shepardG]

now Empyrean>Relic/Mythic

after December update,they will remake Dynamis/Salvage for LV90.
also,Lvcap stop @90 for a while because of remaking contents.

SE said "we know other weapons better than Relic/Mythics,but if you keep doing trials it's gonna beat other weapons in the future"
not sure other weapons means Empyrean or not.
so I think new trial request items from new "Dynamis/Salvages".

What? I don't recall hearing about redone endgame areas (dyna/salvage)? Is this your ASSumption or did I miss mention of this?

[Andradi]

His dad who works at Square-Enix said so, it must be true!