Completed Relic/Mythic weapons list

[FailureMidgard]

- Uh, I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one looking at Empyreans pre-Scars and thinking "No one's gonna have these for a long time". Scars changed all that.

OMG no way, nobody was gonna get shit that wasn't even good at the time, had no indication of how good it would be, and took a decent bit of effort for such a low reward?
Everyone with half a brain knew that if they made Empyreans good, one could finish any of those stages in a week or less, it'd just be a bit of a grind.

Scars changed nothing except the motivation to do it - Scars didn't make Chloris or Carabosse any easier - just more worthwhile to actually kill.

[Deader2818]

OMG no way, nobody was gonna get shit that wasn't even good at the time, had no indication of how good it would be, and took a decent bit of effort for such a low reward?
Everyone with half a brain knew that if they made Empyreans good, one could finish any of those stages in a week or less, it'd just be a bit of a grind.

Scars changed nothing except the motivation to do it - Scars didn't make Chloris or Carabosse any easier - just more worthwhile to actually kill.

Well, scars did give more abysites and better Atmas, so in a sense, it did make them easier

[ronin sparthos]

Figuring out the secret of the !!s also came around the release of Scars which made farming mobs with key item drops infinitely easier to do.

The ephemeral/NM/VNM/cleave approach to farming lights also helped to smooth out building time in Abyssea which directly translates to better productivity. The Scarlet celerity didn't hurt either.

[Virg]

- Cosmic Elucidation is epic

Stopped reading right there.

[FailureMidgard]

Well, scars did give more abysites and better Atmas, so in a sense, it did make them easier

Figuring out the secret of the !!s also came around the release of Scars which made farming mobs with key item drops infinitely easier to do.

The ephemeral/NM/VNM/cleave approach to farming lights also helped to smooth out building time in Abyssea which directly translates to better productivity. The Scarlet celerity didn't hurt either.

You're both grasping at straws, a lot. Figuring out redproc is just the progression of time, and not related to scars in any way, shape or form. Celerity didn't hurt, and also didn't help -at all-. I'm sitting on some 80 stones, and even with 0 celerity, I'd be positive since scars coming out, while finishing an Emp myself, helping another guy who is getting close to done, and doing everything else. Ephemerals aren't worth the effort in old zones, which is what's being discussed, as they are few and far between, and I'm not sure if they even give enhanced lights in old zones (have killed like 8-10 and still not been capped at least twice). VNM t1 giving 100% pearl is nothing new with scars either, so I have no idea why you're listing that. Really, it seems like just because you figured out how the game works in the past month, you assume that there was some huge change in the past month - sorry, that isn't the case.

Cleave is the -only- valid point made so far.

As for abyssites and atma, ya, they help...so does lvl 85, so does having AF3. It lets us kill shit faster I guess...then again, that's rarely an issue, I actually sat around waiting for ??? repop a lot while working on my Masamune and used the AH to supply pop items for the most part. Past that, for Cara itself, I use old atmas only...for Chloris I guess I was using RR on Sam, which is good but not -that- much ahead of Stout Arm I don't think, and the fight is a total joke (and was at 80 too). Either way, still could finish a stage in a week...motivation is the biggest thing scars added for finishing Empyreans quickly, not stats.

[Yugl]

Scars didn't make Chloris or Carabosse any easier

2nd Lunar Abyssite
SS Atma
Minkin Atma
RR Atma
GH Atma
AF3

Somehow, scars didn't make them easier?

Edit: Bleh, last page.

[Taint]

They are easier now but there is also more reason to do them.

[Byrthnoth]

Red !! incentive - We discovered that Red !! forced Key Item drops, and we found out that we'd need to force key item drops to build Tier 2 pop sets for our AF3+2.
Grellow !! incentive - We discovered that AF3+2 dropping NMs still don't like to drop without a Grellow. Thus, we found out what we'd need to force Grellows.
Blue !! incentive - This has always been there, and most of the things I want to force Blue !! on are old-area mobs (Balaur, Turul, etc.) See below.

The real thing Visions did to increase our understanding of the system was simply give everyone a reason to kill Abyssea NMs. With Scars, everyone I knew was in Abyssea . . . but they were xping in giant shitty alliances in Tahrongi instead of farming NMs. Now that Visions has come about, almost everyone I know is in some kind of group that builds time and then kills NMs. New area NMs are getting killed much more frequently than old area NMs did, and as a result we've gotten a lot of data from them. This data surge increased our (JP brethren's) understanding to the point that we (they) could make Grellow/Blue/Red lists.

[ronin sparthos]

You're both grasping at straws, a lot. Figuring out redproc is just the progression of time, and not related to scars in any way, shape or form. Celerity didn't hurt, and also didn't help -at all-. I'm sitting on some 80 stones, and even with 0 celerity, I'd be positive since scars coming out, while finishing an Emp myself, helping another guy who is getting close to done, and doing everything else. Ephemerals aren't worth the effort in old zones, which is what's being discussed, as they are few and far between, and I'm not sure if they even give enhanced lights in old zones (have killed like 8-10 and still not been capped at least twice). VNM t1 giving 100% pearl is nothing new with scars either, so I have no idea why you're listing that. Really, it seems like just because you figured out how the game works in the past month, you assume that there was some huge change in the past month - sorry, that isn't the case.

Except you're the one who made such a foolhardy statement that Scars did nothing to make Carabosse or any other Empyreal NM easier to do. It's a false statement though to you it may have not made a difference.

How does Razed Ruins/Minikin/2 lunars/5levels etc not make the Vision mobs easier? They weren't obscenely difficult in the first place but with all the tools Scars has put on the table, they border on PUG tier nonsense.

!! discoveries and more efficient lightfarming may not be directly tied to Scars but nonetheless they became popular when Scars launched and people got conclusive evidence that !!s were following a pattern. This made red !!'ing mobs a joke if you weren't farming gold caskets.

[FailureMidgard]

Except you're the one who made such a foolhardy statement that Scars did nothing to make Carabosse or any other Empyreal NM easier to do. It's a false statement though to you it may have not made a difference.

How does Razed Ruins/Minikin/2 lunars/5levels etc not make the Vision mobs easier? They weren't obscenely difficult in the first place but with all the tools Scars has put on the table, they border on PUG tier nonsense.

!! discoveries and more efficient lightfarming may not be directly tied to Scars but nonetheless they became popular when Scars launched and people got conclusive evidence that !!s were following a pattern. This made red !!'ing mobs a joke if you weren't farming gold caskets.

Ok, I misspoke (or more accurately exaggerated). Obviously it made the game easier gaining levels. Leaping Lizzy technically got easier, but realistically didn't. Chloris could be killed with <6 100% of the time in the same general timeframe now as it could at 80. Same with Carabosse. Yes, we do a little more damage, have a bit more refresh, but the general fight is not that much easier. My main point, which you entirely ignored to hone in on my exaggeration, was that empyreans would be completed in almost the exact same timeframe as they are being completed at the moment had there been motivation to create said weapons. That is all. Yes, I'm not going to sit here and say that higher stats doesn't add something - it quite fucking obviously does, but it didn't make a hard mob a joke, or an impossible mob killable. It made easy mobs even easier. Red proc? I farmed over half of my sets not even using that and still finished in a week. RR? Didn't have or use it. I didn't even have Stout Arm at the time, in fact, I didn't even have a 2nd DD atma. SS? not even worth mentioning.
Scars made the entire game easier - even limbus, but lets put my reply in context, I responded to:

- Uh, I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one looking at Empyreans pre-Scars and thinking "No one's gonna have these for a long time". Scars changed all that.

Scars did NOT change all that other than incentive. The other changes made the entire game easier for us, but in no way did they realistically speed up the rate at which people got empyreans. Giving us a reason to do them is the only thing scars added that noticeably changed the rate at which empyreans are being created.

[Atoreis]

OMG no way, nobody was gonna get shit that wasn't even good at the time, had no indication of how good it would be, and took a decent bit of effort for such a low reward?
Everyone with half a brain knew that if they made Empyreans good, one could finish any of those stages in a week or less, it'd just be a bit of a grind.

Scars changed nothing except the motivation to do it - Scars didn't make Chloris or Carabosse any easier - just more worthwhile to actually kill.

You are really stubborn... If its even true that's only true for You. Maybe with your very good LS and Amano it was pretty easy at 80 but lowmanning Carabosse with NIN+RDM on 80 wouldnt be possible or would end up wipe 50% of the time. It's first time when I completly disagree with you becouse you talking bullshit here and you are to stubborn to admit you made a mistake saying this and you even gives soome stupid example of Leaping Lizzy seriously Failure...

RR atma makes a lot lowman 2-3 times faster, which makes whole farming easier to manage.
2nd lunar gives a lot and you know it but again to stubborn.
HP+ abyssites and SS makes some powerful attacks much easier to survive (like Aero V or Aeroga III from Carabosse).
Some AF3 turned some fights from hard to joke (af3 brd vs Glavoid for example)
There is much more but there is no point to keep writing because you know that all.

If you would say Chloris and carabosse was almost as easy at 80 like they are at 85 for little ally it could be true.

[Malacite]

Well, scars did give more abysites and better Atmas, so in a sense, it did make them easier

Yeah, having that 2nd Lunar abyssite & adding things like Razes Ruins & Minikin Monstrosity leveled the playing field quite a lot and opened things up to low manning. Not to mention AF3+2 is godly.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Nothing was made low-mannable by Minikin Monstrosity, Razed Ruins, or AF3.

[Odin'sLaw]

Nothing was made low-mannable by Minikin Monstrosity, Razed Ruins, or AF3.

it just made it flow smoother?

[Fievel]

it just made it flow smoother?

Smoother, quicker, less risk of getting one shotted by getting hit by a mobs ability at the wrong time, etc etc

[FailureMidgard]

You are really stubborn... If its even true that's only true for You. Maybe with your very good LS and Amano it was pretty easy at 80 but lowmanning Carabosse with NIN+RDM on 80 wouldnt be possible or would end up wipe 50% of the time. It's first time when I completly disagree with you becouse you talking bullshit here and you are to stubborn to admit you made a mistake saying this and you even gives soome stupid example of Leaping Lizzy seriously Failure...

RR atma makes a lot lowman 2-3 times faster, which makes whole farming easier to manage.
2nd lunar gives a lot and you know it but again to stubborn.
HP+ abyssites and SS makes some powerful attacks much easier to survive (like Aero V or Aeroga III from Carabosse).
Some AF3 turned some fights from hard to joke (af3 brd vs Glavoid for example)
There is much more but there is no point to keep writing because you know that all.

If you would say Chloris and carabosse was almost as easy at 80 like they are at 85 for little ally it could be true.

For some setups, sure, some of these setups may have been distinctly inferior at 80 however, if 85 and Scars made that much of a difference. Yea, RR is broken/etc, it lets you kill anything faster - but lets be honest here, the ease of a fight, esp when lowmanning, has little to do with killspeed, and far more to do with sustainability. As such, I'm going to flat out say that RR did not make a single fight easier. It made them faster, which is not the same thing.

Also, just a reminder, keep my initial comment (which was an exaggeration) in reference with what I replied to - which was a comment implying that these changes in scars vastly increased the rate at which empyreans were made - which I guarantee you myself, Thorny, Ejin, etc only increased our rate at which we were doing empyreans (read, from 0 progress including not having done the lvl 10 nms to done in a week) due to the motivation added, it had nothing to do with atmas/lunar/etc.

As for Carabosse and Chloris, I don't use an HP atma on either, there isn't really a risk of dying unless I'm 2boxing (I'm not the best 2boxer) because believe it or not, around lvl 65 you can wear enough gear to cap MDT. The only risk on Chloris is doom, and 85 hasn't done a damned thing for holy water or cursna spam. YES, you can kill it faster at 85. I won't debate this at all. But even going from a 3min kill to a 5min kill is not going to noticeably change your completion time on an Empyrean. Is this really a hard concept to grasp? Also on Carabosse, if you seriously have issues with Aero5, /nin, don't cast shadows until she does Winter Breeze, then Ni is always up and it's -IMPOSSIBLE- to die to a single target. Scared of -aga3? Add 1 stunner. K grats, it take's 3 people (mage, dd/nin, blm) to kill Carabosse with literally 0 risk of death @ 80. Extra mage MP may matter, I guess? Really unsure/hard to say, but seeing as you don't need to use meds now, I'm pretty sure doing it at 80 with meds (and the martello really close by) should make that not an issue. Yes I'm stubborn, I won't say I'm not - but you're vastly over-exaggerating the difficulty of Carabosse at 80. Yes, its faster now, and slightly easier, but if you have a few half-decent players, it was still insanely easy at 80...which again, putting my comment in perspective, I'm saying the only change to completion rate of empyreans is motivation. Atma/Abyssites/Lunar did not make people suddenly able to kill NMs that were impossible at 80. I still would have finished my Masamune the -exact- same day had it been 80 cap...

Also, the bard af3+2 thing is a bug/glitch, and it's going to be fixed. While I have no issue with people abusing it - I personally think it's stupid as fuck to act like that's some legitimate thing Scars added.

[Kidnoftle]

Nothing was made low-mannable by Minikin Monstrosity, Razed Ruins, or AF3.

Idk, would make amhuluk douing or any of the caturaes shitty if you didnt at least have access to MM. If anything it just made meds more of a back up plan than a neccessity.

Edit: Unless we're explicitly talking about the cookie cutter fights then yeah I'd agree.

[Atoreis]

Also on Carabosse, if you seriously have issues with Aero5, /nin, don't cast shadows until she does Winter Breeze, then Ni is always up and it's -IMPOSSIBLE- to die to a single target. Scared of -aga3? Add 1 stunner. K grats, it take's 3 people (mage, dd/nin, blm) to kill Carabosse with literally 0 risk of death @ 80.

I did all 50 gems on brd rdm nin and belive me or not but carabosse can do following things:
a) mute you then go winter and cast Aero V 2 times in a row before mute wears off
b) dispalga all buffs and go winter and cast Aero V before stun wears off (If she goes from summer to mage phase she has recast up and start to cast immidietly
c) she can dispel shadows by going to winter and cast Aero V before stun wears off (even with addle)

Aero V was doing 2300 dmg to me with shell IV and 7% mdt (yeha I know its low but I'm woking on it with capped mdt it would make around 1600. Whats the taru NIN hp w/o atma and 2/4 abyssite?

Sometimes carabosse can ba a REAL bitch too and just spawn as some super boosted NM. I got that 3 times on 50 gems. She was hitting me with every single Lethe and zephyr arrow. HAd some insane accuracy while summer. Was doing turmoil turmoil torrent torrent -> winter ga III ga III. All that in less then a minute with 75% acc on normal hits. I am sure that w/o being a galka with 8/8 hp and SS atma I would die at some point at this combo. RDM with MM needed to convert from back to back buffs + healing. Normally one set of 4 shadows was enough for 2-3 min (beside when wiped by -ga) and her accuracy was below 10% (yes I know 20% is minimum but she was below 10%) and lethe and zephyr was missing like shit. I'm sure very good equipped NIN even Taru with perfect MDT or betetr perfect wind res set will maybe survive this, but we not talking about its possible or not we talking about its easier or not and it is.

[Scrooge]

I did all 50 gems on brd rdm nin and belive me or not but carabosse can do following things:
a) mute you then go winter and cast Aero V 2 times in a row before mute wears off
b) dispalga all buffs and go winter and cast Aero V before stun wears off (If she goes from summer to mage phase she has recast up and start to cast immidietly
c) she can dispel shadows by going to winter and cast Aero V before stun wears off (even with addle)

None of that should theoretically ever kill you if your rdm was /drk. Brd/Whm is way more than capable enough of handling all erase/na's. You having 7% mdt on NIN is a player issue, it has zero to do with Carabosse. Honestly, two Mermans Earrings and Rings is already 12%, all jobs equippable, and readily available on any server's AH for less than 500k total. Having 7% on any job is pretty unacceptably bad.

[Atoreis]

None of that should theoretically ever kill you if your rdm was /drk. Brd/Whm is way more than capable enough of handling all erase/na's. You having 7% mdt on NIN is a player issue, it has zero to do with Carabosse. Honestly, two Mermans Earrings and Rings is already 12%, all jobs equippable, and readily available on any server's AH for less than 500k total. Having 7% on any job is pretty unacceptably bad.

Its becouse I'm going for dark rings for like 1 moths now lol and I found wind resist set much better for Carabosse. My friend on RDM has no DRK (his RDM is fresh and he figured its to close to /blm for stun to bother making drk) and our BRD is 2 boxed by my friend and it has no /whm sub lvled past 20 (We made this mule in 2 weeks from fresh account) so still working on lvls and stuff. I know it players issues but liek i said Im not saying its impossible I'm saying its easier.