Completed Relic/Mythic weapons list

[Dotsudoku]

Or you could always do dmg while proccing.... or while searching for procs. Crazy concept I know but I'm crazy

You're so clever.

I'm sure having that much MAB makes for some fun numbers, but as it was mentioned, you're losing time by stopping to fanatic's, wing, and WS, which is time spent not procing. I know BLM can do damage, but unless the fight specifically caters to it, it doesn't seem like a productive use of one's time.

[Strawhat]

oh and, could i get some tips on farming Alexandrites? which zone, what mobs you try for, the works... thx.

[Innuendo]

oh and, could i get some tips on farming Alexandrites? which zone, what mobs you try for, the works... thx.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Silver_Sea_Remnants_Guide

[Arthars]

Haven't seen a 99Ukon lose to a 99Apoc/99Rag in anything but by the slightest amount and never consistently(Voidwatch). Good WAR's, good DRK's, fully buffed.

I see SAM performing best on Bismark in the DD category, unless you're mage burning and your buffs/setup is set towards that end.

no and no

ukon dont do better than resolution DRK

and SAM is nowhere close to be performing best in bismarck

ukon war is still good in old VWs, just not in the new VWs

[Yoky]

PUP's mythic. It'd be pretty insane if PUP weren't awful.

Don't let 99% of the pup's that play the game swerve your judgement. Pup's that understand the job are a totally different ballgame.

[Cream Soda]

It has more to do with math than it does to do with anyone he's seen play.

[Churchill]

Preface by this: I don't give a fuck about player skill etc, I know a shit player can have the best gear and parse last. I also don't care about situations where you aren't fully buffed. If that's how people want to play, that's great - the argument is that DRK is a better DD and it came with no qualifications.

Spoiler: show

I don't see how you can claim that on lower cRatio targets like Prov Watcher a job that uses a Critical hit WS who has a 68~83% crit rate (minimum) on 100~200TP WS for half the fight and 48~63% crit rate for the other half can somehow be worse off than someone who uses a non-critical hit WS facing the same level correction.

That's just dumb. There's no other way to say it, your justification was just ass backwards. I don't know how many DRK's need to lose parses to learn that having a lot of attack and LR doesn't mean you auto#1. Ukko's flat out hits harder.

I don't know how many times I can hear "Marches favor me, lol" but every time I think "wow how many people just made a weapon that will never see it's true potential." If you are buffing your DD's properly, your attack advantage becomes irrelevant and all that matters is whose attacks land harder - not only is Ukon99 higher base D, but it's 2 weapon ranks higher than Rag99.

Ukon attacks every 1.71s (70 attack rounds - 35 + 35ODD)
Rag attacks every 1.44s (83 attack rounds - 69 + 14OD2.5)
Not factoring temps/JA_WS delay, etc - you can do math in your head to see that in a completely equal comparison for melee strikes, those two ratios/delays would come out almost identical for TP phase. Both jobs see the benefit of a large portion of their normal melee attacks as criticals, so while it is double damage, it tends to be a bit more impressive than that.



Anyway, 120s, assuming Prov Watcher is a Lv130 monster (pretty close to observed damage outcomes)
Chaos/Fighters/Stalwarts/Bravers/Champions/Boost-STR/Minx3/Madx2/Embrava/Feint/Coercion/Latitude/Valiant/RCB

WAR/SAM(Zerk/Agg/Hasso/Restraint):
(Blood Rage)35729+28258= 63988
DRK/WAR(Zerk/Agg/LR/Endark):
(Souleater)35478+14387= 49865

[Dotsudoku]

Don't let 99% of the pup's that play the game swerve your judgement. Pup's that understand the job are a totally different ballgame.

I know what PUP is capable of, but it's unfortunately just very poorly designed as a DD job. KKK allowing you to keep 3x maneuver up full-time is powerful when it comes to attachments like Turbo Charger, but the JA delay imposed by using three JA/minute to maintain it is devastating to the master's damage. There's also the issue of automatons being otherwise entirely unbuffable(new werds), and extremely fragile.

Beyond that, PUP just doesn't compare to the job it's meant to mimic, MNK, which isn't itself isn't even better than some harder hitting DD jobs.

[Taim Meich]

I think we PUPs just try too hard, and some times there's overstatements about our DD capabilities. With today's endgame, Vereth, KKK or not, we're not good DD's simply because the lack of master damage vs MNK isn't made up by the automaton: No stalwart's, braver's, fanatics, wings etc for the automaton makes it not only quite useless at doing damage (you actually need the extra stats and buffs to hit the hard VW stuff consistently), but also too frail, constantly dying to AoEs. And even if an automaton's death doesn't mean much in the days of DEA, it does decrease the overal DPS by a lot, since you need time to DEA, deploy, and apply maneuvers each time it dies.

The last VW runs I've been as PUP, I've just used the WHM auto, since PUPs of course go to the misc-marginal party, and a WHM bot means I get fulltime haste and cures, plus I get to see magic hints and some lucky magic procs from time to time


Sorry for the derail, but as much as I'd love PUP to be a monster DD in endgame content, it isn't. The moment buffs start being important, is the moment that heavy DDs, which shine with support and buffs, will crush all the hybrid/self-sufficient jobs like DNC, PUP, BST, etc.

[Arthars]

Preface by this: I don't give a fuck about player skill etc, I know a shit player can have the best gear and parse last. I also don't care about situations where you aren't fully buffed. If that's how people want to play, that's great - the argument is that DRK is a better DD and it came with no qualifications.

Spoiler: show

I don't see how you can claim that on lower cRatio targets like Prov Watcher a job that uses a Critical hit WS who has a 68~83% crit rate (minimum) on 100~200TP WS for half the fight and 48~63% crit rate for the other half can somehow be worse off than someone who uses a non-critical hit WS facing the same level correction.

That's just dumb. There's no other way to say it, your justification was just ass backwards. I don't know how many DRK's need to lose parses to learn that having a lot of attack and LR doesn't mean you auto#1. Ukko's flat out hits harder.

I don't know how many times I can hear "Marches favor me, lol" but every time I think "wow how many people just made a weapon that will never see it's true potential." If you are buffing your DD's properly, your attack advantage becomes irrelevant and all that matters is whose attacks land harder - not only is Ukon99 higher base D, but it's 2 weapon ranks higher than Rag99.

Ukon attacks every 1.71s (70 attack rounds - 35 + 35ODD)
Rag attacks every 1.44s (83 attack rounds - 69 + 14OD2.5)
Not factoring temps/JA_WS delay, etc - you can do math in your head to see that in a completely equal comparison for melee strikes, those two ratios/delays would come out almost identical for TP phase. Both jobs see the benefit of a large portion of their normal melee attacks as criticals, so while it is double damage, it tends to be a bit more impressive than that.



Anyway, 120s, assuming Prov Watcher is a Lv130 monster (pretty close to observed damage outcomes)
Chaos/Fighters/Stalwarts/Bravers/Champions/Boost-STR/Minx3/Madx2/Embrava/Feint/Coercion/Latitude/Valiant/RCB

WAR/SAM(Zerk/Agg/Hasso/Restraint):
(Blood Rage)35729+28258= 63988
DRK/WAR(Zerk/Agg/LR/Endark):
(Souleater)35478+14387= 49865

i didnt read ur wall of math that doesnt really apply in VW

for example: 120s buff on watcher? u kidding me?

you can have berserk/aggressor etc up and still use them again when its down.... something is wrong if u dunno how to do that by now

and why u even bringing auto attack into play. A good grp means ur spamming medicines in between swings and eventually still doesnt need to attack much at all to get 100%TP with embrava etc on watcher

[Taint]

Preface by this: I don't give a fuck about player skill etc, I know a shit player can have the best gear and parse last. I also don't care about situations where you aren't fully buffed. If that's how people want to play, that's great - the argument is that DRK is a better DD and it came with no qualifications.

Spoiler: show

I don't see how you can claim that on lower cRatio targets like Prov Watcher a job that uses a Critical hit WS who has a 68~83% crit rate (minimum) on 100~200TP WS for half the fight and 48~63% crit rate for the other half can somehow be worse off than someone who uses a non-critical hit WS facing the same level correction.

That's just dumb. There's no other way to say it, your justification was just ass backwards. I don't know how many DRK's need to lose parses to learn that having a lot of attack and LR doesn't mean you auto#1. Ukko's flat out hits harder.

I don't know how many times I can hear "Marches favor me, lol" but every time I think "wow how many people just made a weapon that will never see it's true potential." If you are buffing your DD's properly, your attack advantage becomes irrelevant and all that matters is whose attacks land harder - not only is Ukon99 higher base D, but it's 2 weapon ranks higher than Rag99.

Ukon attacks every 1.71s (70 attack rounds - 35 + 35ODD)
Rag attacks every 1.44s (83 attack rounds - 69 + 14OD2.5)
Not factoring temps/JA_WS delay, etc - you can do math in your head to see that in a completely equal comparison for melee strikes, those two ratios/delays would come out almost identical for TP phase. Both jobs see the benefit of a large portion of their normal melee attacks as criticals, so while it is double damage, it tends to be a bit more impressive than that.



Anyway, 120s, assuming Prov Watcher is a Lv130 monster (pretty close to observed damage outcomes)
Chaos/Fighters/Stalwarts/Bravers/Champions/Boost-STR/Minx3/Madx2/Embrava/Feint/Coercion/Latitude/Valiant/RCB

WAR/SAM(Zerk/Agg/Hasso/Restraint):
(Blood Rage)35729+28258= 63988
DRK/WAR(Zerk/Agg/LR/Endark):
(Souleater)35478+14387= 49865

The real answer is 99% of DDs don't have a clue and are probably TPing in the same gear on Bismark as they are in Nyzul and Abyssea.

On paper that Ukon WAR should be a consistent top DD. In practice it's parsing 60% acc and hitting bismark for 0 25% of the time.

[Churchill]

Hence why I prefaced it

I liked the "I didn't read it..." with the "btw, for example..."

Arthars our last 4 kills have been under 150s with one at 120s and one at 134s, so yes. Auto attack is factored in to show that LR isn't a huge buff when you're both near delay cap. If you want to plug your fingers in your ears and say "but I'm spamming temps" then that's probably why I said "not factoring temps, JA_WS delay, etc".

Need to get Atoreis in here so you can argue with someone and both be wrong.

[Arthars]

u can always argue all u want with ur math, and i can always argue that no one have yet to beat my drk in any new VWs

we are both right until u parse against me in VW where parse doesnt matter

ur math is a hard fact that is scientifically proven right, but like taint imply, the player behind the screen is the one deciding the numbers

i dont have to bring atoeris out for this one, hes just another math freak that doesnt bring the math to the fields

[Falaras]

I don't mean to side with Arthars as I think he's an idiot, but you are taking a fight that I would say is heavily in Wars favor. Embrava and the acc boosts severely cripple any gain Drk has over War. Really any kind of fast fight with high buffs nullifies Drks advantage because they are already delay capped before buffs, have no useful 2h, and aren't reliant on fast wearing buffs like Impetus/Restraint. The real place Drk shines are pick up VW groups where the fights are long, the buffs are scarce, and your cor for some reason decided to use hunters roll.

The problem I have right now when discussing FFXI situations is everyone seems to be doing something different whether it's organized LS VW, low man nyzul, pick up group VW, only logging on to do dynamis, or even simply playing in abyssea. For me, Dark Knight is a great job because I generally do pick up VW groups where the DDs probably won't even have the normal Haste spell most the time and the idea of delay capping is near impossible unless someones SVing marches or bringing an embrava mule.

[Churchill]

I don't mean to side with Arthars as I think he's an idiot, but you are taking a fight that I would say is heavily in Wars favor. Embrava and the acc boosts severely cripple any gain Drk has over War. Really any kind of fast fight with high buffs nullifies Drks advantage because they are already delay capped before buffs, have no useful 2h, and aren't reliant on fast wearing buffs like Impetus/Restraint. The real place Drk shines are pick up VW groups where the fights are long, the buffs are scarce, and your cor for some reason decided to use hunters roll.

The problem I have right now when discussing FFXI situations is everyone seems to be doing something different whether it's organized LS VW, low man nyzul, pick up group VW, only logging on to do dynamis, or even simply playing in abyssea. For me, Dark Knight is a great job because I generally do pick up VW groups where the DDs probably won't even have the normal Haste spell most the time and the idea of delay capping is near impossible unless someones SVing marches or bringing an embrava mule.

Well, Arthars has admitted I am right, and ignored that I stated my feelings regarding players behind the job twice lol.

As far as your points, the monster was selected for me as the argument was "any high tier/new VW". In basic principle that line of thinking is wrong because of the nature of two two primary WS's in question.

I accounted for the disparity of buffs, and in fact WAR fairs better when Blood Rage is down than DRK when SE is down - however as far as Restraint, this is about the same level of buff as Last Resort is to DRK and DRK gets to use it 8m/10 instead of Restraint (5m/10). I also don't factor in 2h and never use them in this fight myself - it's not really a parse if the WAR swaps to GS and autowins with MS+Resolution.

In regards to your last point, that was something I was trying to get across. A lot of DRK's think that as soon as they get Marches they attack so fast no one else in the game matters for 3m, and this simply isn't true as ALL of the DD's are getting those marches. The real time DRK does great is when you are underbuffed haste wise and Last Resort really puts you over the top OR you are underbuffed attack wise and DRK is able to overcome that and put up massive resolution numbers.

Is WAR a specialized DD? Yes and no, it shines when played correctly anywhere, as does any job, but it really shines when it closes the delay gap and receives attack buffs, and Rag is the same way. I prefer to use Apoc if it's an iffy party/situation like you described, or anywhere I'm not spamming temp items. As soon as Embrava/Marches/PD go up, it's Great Sword time. A lot of the discussion is with Embrava or capped delay in mind at the moment because even new content like Legion is basically requiring, again, to PD and Embrava to clear it successfully. I guess my only problem with getting an event where you had to manage hate and control the fight over time is it would just take an hour to get shit drops instead of 2 minutes :D

[Arthars]

maths itself is never wrong churchill

my main point is that most people i have seen, they are nowhere near close or where the math should bring them

and forgive me for ignoring to read anything that has more than 10 lines.... just cant do that cos im old now

[Cairthenn]

That would be because abyssea ushered in an era of, "My accuracy is capped. Always."

[Taint]

That would be because abyssea ushered in an era of, "My accuracy is capped. Always."

ACC is most DDs problem with the high end VW stuff. DRK has an advantage there with DE (should be 4/5), aggressor and SE. Attack from zerk,endark,LR. Embrava/marches + haste and DRK is pretty much good to go.

Doesn't WARs haste cap at 78.3? 43.3+25+10?

[Cream Soda]

Magic haste is 43.75, so 78.75

[Koyangi]

Does Endark and Enlight add accuracy? I've never seen it in Wiki, but people always seem to mention those 2 spells when talking about accuracy.