Completed Relic/Mythic weapons list

[Indalecia]

Frenchy McMarrows hating on non-monks? Why, that's inconceivable!

[pchan]

I thought you didn't account for jumps in those calculations, and doesn't it pull ahead significantly with angon+chaos roll? Ignoring the fact that you only even bothered to compare 1 mythic.

I did 3 mythics. Motenten is doing them all and we find the same damage. I'm only using one buffer job for realistic comparisons. If you add COR to fail 2 -handed DD (those that need to sub SAM obviously) why not add another buffer that's going to benefit WAR and MNKs (=real DDs) ? Where do you include the fact that replacing all of your fail DDs and CORs by mnks and war will result in more damage anyway ? Is the fact that Mythic DRG requires COR, 2x minuets, and Dia 2 (on decent challenge mobs and not counting the dps loss due to building 300 tp) to beat monk and war representative of the fact that doing a Ryunohige is "worth it" alexandrite wise ?

[Guitarman]

SAM mythic sucks? News to me.

Sidenote, not that you'd bring a BST to endgame content anyway, but Aymur is pretty fucking amazing tbh.

[TheDangerousDave]

Did pchan really just say WAR is good? Wow, finally.

[Fereydoon]

Did pchan really just say WAR is good? Wow, finally.

I think the best part was him saying:

to fail 2 -handed DD (those that need to sub SAM obviously)

What the hell does he think WAR subs? MNK?

Also hasn't anyone realized pchan is just 2 years behind the rest of the world, first it was "ashittea is over gimplets", then it was "+2 and Verethragna best gear, MNK best job!", he's currently in the Abyssea era, he'll come around to VW soon, and then maybe NeoNyzul if he doesn't get ripped apart by time space.

[pchan]

Is this the new alla ? Maths are wrong !

[Byrthnoth]

For reference I use a relatively weak mob (accuracy will probably be capped with any DD)
mob_vit=95;
eva=470;
def=560*0.90; // dia 2 active
lvl=0;
mob_agi=95;

You set up the optimal conditions for Monk as a DD relative to 2H DDs. You have no level correction (which disproportionately affects 1H jobs). You made no Acc issues (Dragoon's strong point). You set a VIT value at approximately the Monk fSTR cap (look here). You set the AGI value so that (including the Boost-Dex that you decide to use), so Monk is approximately crit rate capped.

So yes, if your example of the ultimate endgame monster is a Dynamis Nightmare DC, then Monk is better than Dragoon with double marches and no minuets. If you add minuets, Dragoon is better. Powerful statement you've made there. I guess that all the people who were building Ryunohige so they could kill DC Nightmare Monsters while dualboxing a G-horn/Duar BRD mule and a WHM/SCH should probably drop their Alex and give up.

[Yugl]

Why drop them when they can give them to Yugl?!

[Martel]

Is the fact that Mythic DRG requires COR, 2x minuets, and Dia 2 (on decent challenge mobs and not counting the dps loss due to building 300 tp) to beat monk and war representative of the fact that doing a Ryunohige is "worth it" alexandrite wise ?

Hmm. Shall we see what happens with no attack buffs or dia II then?

Using the most recent of Motenten's DPS spreadsheets.

Mob, MNK gear sets, and other buffs from Here. Except minuets and Dia 2. Not using those this time. Still using berserk on MNK though, as it's not an outside buff. I'd do a WAR comparison too, but I've just no idea how to gear one.

DRG gear sets

Spoiler: show

TP
Ryunohige (99)
Claymore Grip
Hagneia Stone
Phorcys
Ganesha
Brutal
Ghillie +1
Lancer +2
Ogier
Rajas
Tyrant
Rancorous
Phos +1
Phorcys
Huginn Aug

WS
Potestas
Drachenhorn
Ganesha
Brutal
Moonshade AttTP
Phorcys
Phorcys
Rajas
Strigoi
Rancorous
Prosilio
Lancer +2
Huginn Aug

Spirit Jump
Hagneia Stone
Phorcys
Ganesha
Brutal
Ghillie +1
Lancer +2
Lancer +2
Rajas
Tyrant
Atheling
Windbuffet
Lancer +2
Lancer +2

Soul Jump
Hagneia Stone
Phorcys
Ganesha
Brutal
Ghillie +1
Lancer +2
Ogier
Rajas
Tyrant
Atheling
Windbuffet
Lancer +2
Huginn Aug

DPS
MNK: 554
DRG: 971

Note that the DRG value is with Angon. But well. I'm a DRG. I get Angon, so. But, one can't full time angon, and the def- setting doesn't account for that. So I'll make some adjustments.

DRG w/o Angon:779

Now, angon can be up 50% of the time, so we can just avg our with and without value for our final DRG DPS.

DRG final DPS: 875

And we still haven't accounted for the impact of an AM3 wyvern on a trash mob. But mathing that is beyond me. Now quit picking on my Mythic.

But.. Is Ryunohige worth the Alexandrite? I can only answer that question for DRG.

Consider. Ryunohige is ~40% more powerful than the next best option. How many weapons actually give that kind of increase? Although it's also about x4~(conservatively) times as expensive.

Was it worth it for me? Hell YES!

You set up the optimal conditions for Monk as a DD relative to 2H DDs. You have no level correction (which disproportionately affects 1H jobs). You made no Acc issues (Dragoon's strong point). You set a VIT value at approximately the Monk fSTR cap (look here). You set the AGI value so that (including the Boost-Dex that you decide to use), so Monk is approximately crit rate capped.

So yes, if your example of the ultimate endgame monster is a Dynamis Nightmare DC, then Monk is better than Dragoon with double marches and no minuets. If you add minuets, Dragoon is better. Powerful statement you've made there. I guess that all the people who were building Ryunohige so they could kill DC Nightmare Monsters while dualboxing a G-horn/Duar BRD mule and a WHM/SCH should probably drop their Alex and give up.

MNK: 554
DRG final DPS: 875

XD

You know, it's funny. After I finished Ryu, I pretty much stopped doing dynamis farming. Think I did like 2 valk farming runs, then stopped. Tore the hell outta those two runs, though. ^^

[pchan]

You set up the optimal conditions for Monk as a DD relative to 2H DDs. You have no level correction (which disproportionately affects 1H jobs).

Disproportiannally ? Did you smoke ? Level correction is the same for anyone.

You made no Acc issues (Dragoon's strong point).

Focus + aggressor ? ACC is not DRG's strong point.

You set a VIT value at approximately the Monk fSTR cap (look here). You set the AGI value so that (including the Boost-Dex that you decide to use), so Monk is approximately crit rate capped.

This is stupid. I don't pull an agi out of my ass. With any agi you can tweak the gear so that the DDs can cap ddex. This doesn't advantage MNK in any way. Both mnk and drg had crit% capped for melee and WS for this comparison. For fstr it's the other way around, DRG cap fstr much later on so the lower the mob's vit the higher their fstr.

So yes, if your example of the ultimate endgame monster is a Dynamis Nightmare DC.

This is even more dumb. With more DEF dragoon is going to pale even more because they have no berserk w/e you do.

[Byrthnoth]

Monk caps at 2.0, Dragoon caps at 2.25. If you're in a situations where you're capping attack, then:

Against Ig-Alima, which is 21 levels above the player
(2-1.05)/(2.25-1.05) = 80%
So your ratio is 80% that of a 2H DD with essentially the same buffs. This is the strength of 2H jobs in current content and the single largest reason they're used for Legion.

Ignoring this and gearing your analysis for an lolmob that has no level correction but yet you also can't cap attack on (like pretty much nothing people fight in game?) massively benefits Monk.

[pchan]

without minuet
MNK: 503
DRG: 971

really ? without minuet mnk's dps drops from ~740 to 688;

[Martel]

This is also without Dia II. But adding Dia II only pushed it up to 599. Going back over MNK sheet to see if I missed something.

[pchan]

Monk caps at 2.0, Dragoon caps at 2.25. If you're in a situations where you're capping attack, then:
Against Ig-Alima, which is 21 levels above the player
(2-1.05)/(2.25-1.05) = 80%
So your ratio is 80% that of a 2H DD with essentially the same buffs. This is the strength of 2H jobs in current content and the single largest reason they're used for Legion.

Using the same stats as the comparison of the mythic thread but 21 level correction ;
vere : 283 DPS
ryu : 274 DPS

Where is the massive loss of DPS ? I think you are mixing " 2 handed DD" and "DRAGOON". While upping the mob's level correction is advantaging 2 handed DD vs 1 handed DD it doesn't make DRG any better vs mnk. If anything I would stay it's getting worse and worse for DRG because they still have to cap attack and it's even harder.

For reference, war :

ukkon : 323 DPS
conqueror : 313 DPS

[Martel]

I would think the issue there is that neither job will be capping atk on a mob like that with just minuets. In VW you'd have stalwarts to help, and in legion you'd want a cor for Chaos roll. A difference in caps means little if you're not capping.

Also, a mob like that isn't gonna have 95 agi. And a loss of crit rate is alot like losing atk. If I understand correctly, a crit is like an atk boosted hit with a higher cap.

Although I haven't run this through the spreadsheet as of yet. Still looking for mistakes in my previous MNK set up.

[Martel]

Ok, found a mistake. March bonus was only set to 3 not 5. going back to correct values now.

[pchan]

The level correction has nothing to do with capping attack since cratio is calculated before level correction.

The agi is not an issue either, you just have to swap a given piece of gear by another and still maintain ddex. I know mithra can mantain 210 dex with minor dps loss for instance so you are confortable as long as mob_agi < 170. As long as your whm has a +25 boost dex and bard's marches give +10 dex you are good on anything. Also on evasive stuff you still have the option to use madrigals for another +10 dex. Lastly in legion enfire is likely going to advantage 1 handed DD greatly in comparison to 2H DD.

[Martel]

Post march+ correction I now have 554 and 599(w/ dia II) in my no atk buffs simulation.

[Martel]

The level correction has nothing to do with capping attack since cratio is calculated before level correction.

The agi is not an issue either, you just have to swap a given piece of gear by another and still maintain ddex. I know mithra can mantain 210 dex with minor dps loss for instance so you are confortable as long as mob_agi < 170. As long as your whm has a +25 boost dex and bard's marches give +10 dex you are good on anything. Also on evasive stuff you still have the option to use madrigals for another +10 dex. Lastly in legion enfire is likely going to advantage 1 handed DD greatly in comparison to 2H DD.

Well, unless you're just gonna go full out dex for every mob, you'll need to know the mobs AGI so you can make fine adjustments. Which we generally don't know. But if maxing dex only causes minor DPS loss, I guess you can go with that.

Enfire in legion. Can't say I've ever tried that. Is this RDM enfire or SMN enfire? In either case I've no idea how well it would work in legion, and whether or not it'd get resisted/MDT'd. But certainly, an enspell favors the greatest number of hits dealt.

[mdkuser]

Ifrit's. It caps at 45 dmg per hit. On ADL its quite awsome, it is melee damage +20% for monks.