Completed Relic/Mythic weapons list

[Nal]

always mad

[pchan]

OAT2-3 isn't all that great when the other DD's TP faster than they can use it. Embrava regain + capped Haste + Fighter's Roll + Samurai Roll mean even in Hybrid PDT gear, you regularly have TP directly after WS'ing. (EDIT: Note, these are not the only buffs you have. Just the ones that drastically increase TP gain)

The spreadsheet and my simulation account for all of this. Only reason you'd find normal weapons better is lag that makes AM3 unusable, however I don't see how this would only effect legion, because most of the attack speed comes from capping haste, therefore the difference should be apparent in normal stuff, which you point out not be the case. Except at start (am3) embrava will barelyinfluence TP gain. SAM rolls is the probably the dumbest thing to do. Except if you are using a fail DD such as DRG, rolls should be fighter and rogue. Songs sould be present, with a non gimp bard doing 4 songs covering the few remaining attack required to cap and acc if needed.

PS = you don't need to convince me that WAR is superior to lolSAM anywhere. It's just that maths account for all the stuff you are describing. The only way koga-SAM can't keep up is if they can't press buttons in times. However I already said that SAM dps is the max they can do, as in, 300 tp everytime, and non counting inital damage losss from WS. If you ask me what ruins them would be the inability to proprely time their AM3 (doubtful with embrava/meditate) and stuff like facing mobs. Nothing to do with ws freq. Just want to make sure that I still belive that only 2 melee jobs don't suck and kogasam is not one of them.

[Tenbroya]

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/9...uppimpchan.gif

This should be a : pchan smiley.

[Damane]

Why do you guys respond to him? It is baffling to me.

why is he unbanned in the first place?

[Mairja]

why is he unbanned in the first place?

Been wondering that aswell. Could have sworn it was supposed to be a one year ban.

[NynJa]

Sold a couple marrows to pay for an unban credit?

[Noob]

Pchan is just another example of an idiot with access to good gear. Nothing new really.

[S N K]

Heres what you need to know about Pchan:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...529#post375529


http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z.../afterglow.jpg

Lawl!

[Prothescar]

By Pchan's MNK logic, BLU should be in every alliance for everything ever. it deals 10~15% less damage, at best, than MNK and supplies magnitudes more utility through debuffs, buffs, etc. than a MNK could ever dream to provide.


There's a reason no one brings either of these to anything that isn't easy as piss.

[TybudX]

On a scale from one to ten, one being "mdkuser is my only friend" and ten being "I don't log myself in for buffs", where do you rank easy as piss?

[Prothescar]

Pretty much anything that isn't Hall of Mul, though I wouldn't bring a BLU or MNk to any Legion wing. Basically any content that pchan can actually do because he can log in enough mules at once to have the manpower.

[Noob]

By Pchan's MNK logic, BLU should be in every alliance for everything ever. it deals 10~15% less damage, at best, than MNK and supplies magnitudes more utility through debuffs, buffs, etc. than a MNK could ever dream to provide.


There's a reason no one brings either of these to anything that isn't easy as piss.

^Fucking this.

[pchan]

By Pchan's MNK logic, BLU should be in every alliance for everything ever. it deals 10~15% less damage, at best, than MNK and supplies magnitudes more utility through debuffs, buffs, etc. than a MNK could ever dream to provide.


There's a reason no one brings either of these to anything that isn't easy as piss.

BLU is not a DD. Not sure what this has to do with the discussion. Still no backup on why koga is so inferior in legion beside "my friend is SAM and he comes WAR". BG math 2012.

[Prothescar]

BLU is not a DD.

Then neither is MNK, congratulations.

The only differences between MNK and BLU are MNK's higher base damage per fist and Impetus, while BLU has a slightly superior WS (may edge slightly in MNK's favor with Impetus up) and vastly superior multiattack rate, which serves to help compensate for the base damage difference's increase to MNK DoT before even considering superior WS rate. Effectively MNK's edge is coming from the average 8% Crit rate/Crit Damage and 17Attack from Impetus (at capped accuracy) with a slight amount remaining from the superior base damage while having none of the other things that BLU can offer. 40% of the time, MNK's edge is severely diminished.

They aren't nearly as far apart as you think, and putting on the blinders is pointless. They're both equally worthless for high end content while BLU excels at lowman and low to mid range content.

[Jem]

BLU is not a DD. Not sure what this has to do with the discussion. Still no backup on why koga is so inferior in legion beside "my friend is SAM and he comes WAR". BG math 2012.

Your math may say that Koga does well but it doesn't represent what actually happens. When Iarumas came SAM and used Koga he parsed a lot worse than he did on WAR with identical buffs / chambers. It's not like he eyeballed it and went' 'This is shit, I'm coming WAR'. And it wasn't the sort of difference that can be attributed to bad luck, it was a massive difference on a consistent basis.

[TybudX]

ITT: pchan says (pickaweapon) WAR is better than Koga SAM and Ryu DRG, people argue with him by saying that their Koga SAMs and/or Ryu DRGs are better on (pickaweapon) WAR. BG really is slipping.

[jimbobsonofgod]

I'm waiting for Pchan to come out with spread sheet data to reflect that blu isn't a DD. I have a semi topical question:
Anybody collect 150 Scoria ?

[Yugl]

Some of the stuff pchan has said were true, but received poorly because of who he is or because of his poor terminology (ex: How he designates subpar to weapons). Even the Legion discussion driveled into MNK nonsense and the issue itself is at a standstill where one side says "DPS Sheet" and the other says "SAM-pal changed to WAR."

What people opposing pchan with that issue need to realize is that issues with over-TP (Not really wasted TP since they translate into WS damage) and high haste are present within the DPS sheet. Some buffs such as Savagery seem to be missing from the SAM sheet and according to Eijin's tests, they do affect other DDs. That favors SAM though.

That said, pchan's problem stems from the fact that he's decided to abandon the event, so he's too unfamiliar to effectively recognize the issues disadvantaging SAM and Mythic Weapons.

SAM
- Locking isn't "optional" (Embrava, BRD song duration, PD, etc), so if you're mid-meditate, you have to simply cancel the meditate
- Spacing DDs is a strategic advantage against certain TP moves (Overwhelm ineffective)

Mythic
- Locked buffs doesn't really favor AM since you don't receive the benefit when locked; in fact, you have to double the running distance to do so, which means more AM3 wasted
- Difficult to keep track of AM3 duration when locking so often
- Repairing AM3 gives WAR more share of the HP (ex: Not WSing to finish a mob because you know AM3 will wear soon; having to repair AM3 when you don't have 300TP)
- Debuffs (Breakga, Amnesia, Encumbrance, and Stun) undermine AM3 consistency more than WAR DPS

In general
- Lack of MS v MS (Mighty v Meikyo) comparison, but that favors WAR

[Jem]

Pchan's spreadsheet is based on Wave 3 Mul mobs and doesn't account for DD's having to wear Hybrid gear. Nor the fact that a shit ton of TP moves are going to royally fuck with your buffs / AM (Amnesia, Encumbrance, severe Paralyze, Dispels/Purgation, Deaths (and they will happen), etc.). Or that you have to use meds. Plus there's run time between mobs (both during waves and then back and forth from portal between waves). Those aren't the only issues but they are sure to contribute. His lack of legion experience negatively impacts his ability to give an accurate comparison (as it would for anyone to be fair, hard to give an accurate representation for things you don't have experience in)

Locking buffs is basic but you're re-cycling buffs between waves breaking your lock on the portal countless times whilst waiting on repops / reaggro. With all the will in the world, you're still losing some buff time.

I realise the spreadsheet accounts for over-TP'ing but it isn't an accurate representation of what happens in Legion imho.


From my POV it's simple. Same player, same buffs (2x 99 Harp/Horn BRDs + 2 CORs rotating between parties), same mobs, same players on other DD's. He parses noticeably worse with Koga than Ukon / Rag. This isn't a one-off, this is consistent over multiple parses and we're not talking negligible amounts either. Given that SAM is his life and soul, if he was going to play any job better it would be that one but he's an excellent DD regardless so all weapons are getting fair/equal representation in my honest opinion.

The spreadsheet could say the Koga doubles Rag / Ukon but that does not match what happens in practice for whatever reason (I am aware it does not say it doubles them before anyone suggests that is what I think it says). Koga is undoubtedly a good weapon but does it beat Rag/Ukon in Legion? No, not in my experience. Elsewhere? Situationally I am sure it does.

[Kincard]

Anybody collect 150 Scoria ?

Honestly the stuff is so rare that you would be required to farm almost all of it all yourself, unlike Dross/Cinder or Marrows which you can both farm and buy. It's probably a much bigger pain in the ass to convince people to help you farm/fight PW than it is to farm/fight ADL or spam T6s VWs a ton. It also takes way longer to farm up a popset for PW just because of all the running around involved. What's the market value on those things, anyway? I've seen people offer a laughable 3M and I've seen them sitting in bazaars for 30M...there's few enough of them that I think there isn't even really a "standard" price for the stuff.

There was a screen of a JP BRD with a glow'd Carnwenhan at one point, though.