Completed Relic/Mythic weapons list

[TheDangerousDave]

Yes, again, "so much more" for 30 seconds in every 250 seconds is not full time. Even still, using a brief period of time to make a claim for being the strongest DD for a very long period of 75 cap end game is illogical and clutching at straws.

[Taint]

Yes, again, "so much more" for 30 seconds in every 250 seconds is not full time. Even still, using a brief period of time to make a claim for being the strongest DD for a very long period of 75 cap end game is illogical and clutching at straws.

You are strongly underestimating the Haste gains above 80. Going from 80 to 90 haste doubles your swing speed. Going from 80-93.33 is almost 3 times as fast. Trying to remember right but I think it was 86.7 every 4:10 without 2hr marches. Ofcourse WARs/SAMs were sitting around 70% haste back in those days.

I competitively parsed for years. (still do but not for gil any more) While I lost occationally to a WAR it was extremely rare.

[TheDangerousDave]

How do you get 86.7? It was a 30 second JA wasn't it? How long was it between people realising the brokeness of Haste and the nerf? I can't remember.

[Damane]

How do you get 86.7? It was a 30 second JA wasn't it? How long was it between people realising the brokeness of Haste and the nerf? I can't remember.

the haste cap nerf took definitly place after ToAU release i think. Midway through ToAU i think, not sure tough anymore.

[Taint]

How do you get 86.7? It was a 30 second JA wasn't it? How long was it between people realising the brokeness of Haste and the nerf? I can't remember.

25gear
25ja
36.7 magic (+2 instrument)

[TheDangerousDave]

25gear
25ja
36.7 magic (+2 instrument)

Sorry, I completely misread that as 86.7 seconds every 4min 10.
@Damane, I thought around then too, which means there were years where DRKs advantage was just 10% Haste, 12%~ of the time. I.E. The time frame I was talking about really.

[Damane]

Sorry, I completely misread that as 86.7 seconds every 4min 10.
@Damane, I thought around then too, which means there were years where DRKs advantage was just 10% Haste, 12%~ of the time. I.E. The time frame I was talking about really.

in high haste situations "just" 10% haste is HUGE, why do you think do people keep subbing sam? for the store TP or seigan lol?

[Taint]

Deperate blows came in July of 06, but it wasn't until early 07 that people were abusing haste. (in the NA world, JPs were doing it first) Looks like Kclub zergs started in early 06 as well.

Pretty crazy to look back at the old threads from 06-07.

http://killingifrit.com/forums/topic...l-zerg-thread/

the good old days lol.


Gear sets (please correct WAR where its wrong, I know I could get away with RCurry just about everywhere on DRK so I was trying to match the ACC, most DDs used acc food)

DRK: 26% haste, 6hit, 4da
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/283127

WAR: 24% haste, 7hit, 17da
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/283128

[TheDangerousDave]

in high haste situations "just" 10% haste is HUGE, why do you think do people keep subbing sam? for the store TP or seigan lol?

Yeah no shit, the just was referring to the 12% moreso than the haste. It still was not enough to make DRK stronger than SAM or WAR on equally geared and skilled players, or even non relic WARs (and possibly SAMs but I didn't really play SAM).

[Khajit]

Dave. Unless Rune chopper was involved you're being full of shit right now or you hung around too many shitty apoc drks back in the day. Sam leading the pack was when penta thrust was involved vs piercing weak colibri. All the other situations had to do with sam being more immune to retards than other jobs thanks to the 100% atk bonus on gekko and it being a 1 hit ws. Sam wasn't the best back then. It was consistent. Gimps could still deal "decent" damage with a halfassed gekko set and average people could deal enough damage to keep up with the rest of their average group. Go above that skill level and Sam was never first rate.

Noone spammed cata 100% of the time back then. it was activate aftermath then go back to guillotine generally as Guilo was slightly stronger.

When was the drk aftermath changed to gear haste? I swear it wasn't part of it at some point so Apoc also had a haste aftermath up 99% of the time while wearing capped gear haste.

[TheDangerousDave]

Dave. Unless Rune chopper was involved you're being full of shit right now or you hung around too many shitty apoc drks back in the day. Sam leading the pack was when penta thrust was involved vs piercing weak colibri. All the other situations had to do with sam being more immune to retards than other jobs thanks to the 100% atk bonus on gekko and it being a 1 hit ws. Sam wasn't the best back then. It was consistent. Gimps could still deal "decent" damage with a halfassed gekko set and average people could deal enough damage to keep up with the rest of their average group. Go above that skill level and Sam was never first rate.

Noone spammed cata 100% of the time back then. it was activate aftermath then go back to guillotine generally as Guilo was slightly stronger.

When was the drk aftermath changed to gear haste? I swear it wasn't part of it at some point so Apoc also had a haste aftermath up 99% of the time while wearing capped gear haste.

I'm talking shit because you don't even know that Apoc AM was always gear haste? ok. Apoc DRKs didn't spam solely Cata? Yes they did, though it was of course not ideal for maximum damage.

[Fake]

Yeah no shit, the just was referring to the 12% moreso than the haste. It still was not enough to make DRK stronger than SAM or WAR on equally geared and skilled players, or even non relic WARs (and possibly SAMs but I didn't really play SAM).

Kill yourself

[Detzu]

I nowhere specified during zergs in my post, I assumed it would be read as more common 75 cap content like Dynamis, Limbus, meriting, salvage, Nyzul (?), Einherjar. I can't see why anyone would believe now that Apoc DRK was the best DD when at the time it was argued between SAM and WAR always.


Well, then to do that you must tell yourself I specified WS average alone and completely ignore the DA and attack advantages I specifically mentioned.

I fail to see how 1.17 hit per round on war 75 and 7 hits build and 70% haste could TP faster than an apoc drk with 6 hits build and 93 % haste. So maybe the difference is made by another thing?

[TheDangerousDave]

You're being retarded now. This is like saying WHM was the best DD in game because it could once do 99,999 damage with a cure. The 93% Haste was not long lived and it was around 2 years at end game 75 after it was nerfed.

7 hit? No. I wasn't even talking Bravura. 6 Hit apoc? Hmm I certainly don't remember that being easy to attain or common place. 1.17 hits per round? Please, 21% DA was common place for WAR so that is at least 1.21 there, BEFORE haste etc.
All I'm seeing is a butt-hurt Apoc owner here, please use logic and reason if you want to make a point.

Edit: Think I meant 21% DA, although I can't even remember what gear set that was

[Byrthnoth]

Apoc DRK was a respectable DD at 75 because there were still relevant and important DD stats (like Acc) that they could swap in for Haste. They were also useful in events like Einherjar, Dynamis, etc. because they didn't need nearly as much healing as other melee. Apoc DRK was the only type of DRK I tolerated at 75. There were better DD jobs (barring this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEFPW-Nuq-I ), but Apoc DRK had all the defensive benefits that people praise now and also was less of an offensive sacrifice relative to other jobs.

Still, that doesn't particularly matter because the level cap hasn't been 75 for quite a while. How the shit has this gone on for three pages?

[Fake]

You're being retarded now. This is like saying WHM was the best DD in game because it could once do 99,999 damage with a cure. The 93% Haste was not long lived and it was around 2 years at end game 75 after it was nerfed.

7 hit? No. I wasn't even talking Bravura. 6 Hit apoc? Hmm I certainly don't remember that being easy to attain or common place. 1.17 hits per round? Please, 21% DA was common place for WAR so that is at least 1.21 there, BEFORE haste etc.
All I'm seeing is a butt-hurt Apoc owner here, please use logic and reason if you want to make a point.

Edit: Think I meant 21% DA, although I can't even remember what gear set that was

Yes detzu is a butt hurt apoc fanboy. Doesn't make you any less wrong about most of what you have said

[TheDangerousDave]

Well I just wanted to mention, because it seemed that Jem was saying Apoc is underrated "nowadays" as if it was well-known to be Godly at some time in FFXI history, that it never was. Apoc DRK was certainly a good DD at 75, but for general use was it ever mindblowing damage or the best? Outside of zerg I would certainly argue not. WAR was for sure stronger for general use, MNK was better in Salvage, RNG best in Odin etc. Sure, DRK was stronger and useful if you had poor mages or something but please, it has never been mindblowing in comparison to other jobs.

[TheDangerousDave]

Yes detzu is a butt hurt apoc fanboy. Doesn't make you any less wrong about most of what you have said

Yes and any point I have made has been disproved. Except not.

[Detzu]

/sam + rajas and brutal for 6 hits, it wasn't too difficult to get unless I miss some info on /sam back in the days.
If you care to help me find the pieces that gave you the extra 4% on DA I'll take it.

Btw, there's no need to insult, I never said you weren't logic or lacked reason.

[TheDangerousDave]

Yeah I just saw the sets Taint posted and I can see that 6-hit was easy now. As for WAR all the parses I made were never with a Bravura and 6-hit was definitely possible with 504 delay as far as I remember. Taint's set looks right actually, must have been 17 and my memory failed me, but I thought you were talking about 1.17 hits/round due to the haste which would be ofc wrong.

Sorry, I thought you and Fake were the same person posting due to short name and no sig/avatar so I stooped to his level. I appreciate your replies.