Completed Relic/Mythic weapons list

[IronPandemonium]

Oh I know, I wasn't trying to argue that amano > masa earlier, just that saying masa > amano because of the base ftp on relic/emp ws makes no sense.

I frequently see it thrown around that amano wins if your acc is low enough thou, and I was skeptical that that's ever really true on existing content.

oh, it can exist, since for example my kogarasumaru without usukane parsed like ~84% accuracy on ig-alima one time with red curry just to test the waters, but the way kogarasumaru works makes it so it can't really utilize zanshin's accuracy boost properly, whereas masamune can, but regardless, even at that point i'm sure using masamune with pizza's still better, but what i'm getting at is like i said above, you throw usukane +1 into the equation, and you're capping (or damn well near capping) on anything relevant in the game currently with ease

but yeah, better dps, better attack capped ws and also benefits the non-attack capped ws in the case of the former being unusable, whereas amanomurakumo does nothing for it

I must be doing something wrong somewhere with the DPS Spreadsheet I have.

Are you able to tell me exactly how much ahead DMG wise Masa99 would be over Amano99?

Reason I ask is one the DPS Spreadsheet says even Masa99 blows Mythic99 away, which cant be right. I must be missing some part of the puzzle. Second I have Amano99 and love it to death but if Masa99 is leaps and bounds better than kinda want to know by how much.

Thank you for any time you put into doing the math, I am grateful.

don't look at me for the maffz, because i don't even use the spreadsheets, but i can certainly tell you and verify for you in my own opinion and experiences, the spreadsheet is right in the matter of masamune having the potential of being able to beat out kogarasumaru; i'm not sure what you put into it to get that result, but basically, being unable to overwrite mythic aftermath makes it very, very, VERY inconvenient a bulk of the time to utilize normally, which case i encourage you to create masamune if anyone happens to feel so inclined to decide between which weapon to 99 for their samurai, simply because the pricetag of a mythic is outrageous for such little benefit

i enjoy it(koga.) in vwnm due to the fights lasting less than [but nearly] three minutes, but then the irony of it there is you'll get fighter's roll if you're receiving proper buffs to begin with (which benefits non-mythic all the more), so then you're already partially contradicted, though /drk will be able to benefit the weapon a bit further in general at least, albeit not much in vwnm at all unfortunately since atmacite haste already has you swapping your belt out for windbuffet (assuming you're using 8%-worth like i do)

to answer your question about relic against empyrean, i can't tell you by how much specifically masamune's ahead of amanomurakumo, but i'd say it's sizable enough to where it warrants creating it over amanomurakumo no matter what, assuming you're willing to drop the kind of cash on the job in the first place, given that as stated above, masamune even outperforms kogarasumaru a majority of the time due to the job's mechanics and utility (for example, having to save meditate strictly for reapplying aftermath is so teeth-gritting, you don't even want to know)

[Jem]

Basically the situations where Amano beats Masa, you have no business hitting the mob. You either should change your buffs or use a different DD if your Acc really is that bad.

[IronPandemonium]

Basically the situations where Amano beats Masa, you have no business hitting the mob. You either should change your buffs or use a different DD if your Acc really is that bad.

swagnarok ahoy indeed

[Fake]

I must be doing something wrong somewhere with the DPS Spreadsheet I have.

Are you able to tell me exactly how much ahead DMG wise Masa99 would be over Amano99?

Reason I ask is one the DPS Spreadsheet says even Masa99 blows Mythic99 away, which cant be right. I must be missing some part of the puzzle. Second I have Amano99 and love it to death but if Masa99 is leaps and bounds better than kinda want to know by how much.

Thank you for any time you put into doing the math, I am grateful.

You aren't putting a 1 in the Mythic AM3 box, Koga will beat Amano and Masa in every scenario on DPS sheets if you are gearing each weapon appropriately.

[pooter01]

I don't feel amano is as far behind as you all make it out to be. It certainly is behind in similar gear-sets, but not vastly. Also, kaiten at 95 is generally better than shoha with amano. on any situation you'd be using shoha, I do revert back to the previous comment of better buffs or better DD. Shoha will still always produce great wtf spikes due to the way it works and the 2 hits, but kaiten's consistency will keep it's average above for the majority of content(read VW up till ig'alima without buffs, and even ig with respectable buffs).

As far as usu +1, I actually think the aftermath of kaiten will come into play more once you start getting more +1 usu. With aftermath up, It will be easier for amano to maintain 5hit with 4/5 usu, to take advantage of the double attack. Masa will have to give up more double/triple/quad attack to keep store tp up. It doesn't make amano better, but it closes the already small gap even more(within 5% under most scenarios)

I'm not trying to justify amano vs masa, obviously I chose amano for whatever reasons. But the gap isn't nearly as large as people make it out to be. also, i thought this thread was about people finishing weapons, and not about what they should have chosen/what weapon is better.

[IronPandemonium]

not going to reply further after this post, since while mild discussion on the according weapons was never a bad thing for this topic, i don't want this getting carried away otherwise, but yeah, when you say something like this

Masa will have to give up more double/triple/quad attack to keep store tp up. It doesn't make amano better, but it closes the already small gap even more(within 5% under most scenarios)

while wearing the gear that you were wearing in your ss, despite it being in town, it's enough to convince me you have no true idea on how to gear each weapon efficiently in the first place; the maximum difference between amanomurakumo and masamune will be 2/3% double attack (grip), and even then both get to use it (and should use it) with embrava

considering the amount of tp overflow the job comes into contact with that tp alone is enough to convince anyone sensible really to pick masamune over amanomurakumo

you know all those times you ws at ~121%/142%/etc tp accordingly? that tp past 100% does literally nothing for kaiten, and that's what favors masamune heavily in the first place (not even accounting the better dps)

[pooter01]

Perhaps you can enlighten me as to exactly how i'm gearring it horribly? Obviously body/hands/feet are town gear. I use unkai+2 body, currently brego gloves, and usu feet. I'm also still working on re-gearing since going from tp bonus gk to a brand new relic does take some re-arranging. As you can also see in my SS, i have 400k atm, and still owe 4Mil for getting it done before going back to school. Still working on ganasha neck, since hahava never puts out for me. have plans for hagniea stone once that falls into place. but please, enlighten me as to my horrible gear and how i can fix it? I know full well how store tp/da/haste and the like work, and have a fairly good grasp on how to gear my jobs, but would obviously welcome any sound advice someone would be willing to throw my way. nobody is perfect after all. However, ascertaining by a single in town screenshot of someone that just blew a load of gil on a weapon and has not yet had the chance to re-arrange gear accordingly, that they do not know how to gear isn't entirely sound.

You're more than welcome to do this in pm if you wish, so as to not derail this any further with insults.

[IronPandemonium]

You're more than welcome to do this in pm if you wish, so as to not derail this any further with insults.

was afk, and that i will; the way you interpreted what i said makes me want to apologize, but at the same time, you handled my mere bluntness with a beyond-toxic reply, so i'll leave it at that and just private message you from here

[Plow]

somewhat on topic, asking for a LS friend: if you had most of the currency already saved up, would you build bravura and vere, or ukon and spharai, assuming equal love for both jobs. inb4 sell currency and do ukon/vere, looking for 1relic/1emp. my instinct tells me spharai/ukon, but i'd like the collective opinions of BG.

This should really be in random question thread, but my opinion:

Go with the strengths. War's standout capability is raw damage output, monk's is having absurd survivability while still doing really, really good damage; so I'd go with ukon + spharai.

[Buffy]

somewhat on topic, asking for a LS friend: if you had most of the currency already saved up, would you build bravura and vere, or ukon and spharai, assuming equal love for both jobs. inb4 sell currency and do ukon/vere, looking for 1relic/1emp. my instinct tells me spharai/ukon, but i'd like the collective opinions of BG.

Based on helping with many builds and a Ukko I built for mule, I would lean towards the uko/spharai combo, but it's a small, small difference. If the person had a great affinity for one over the other, that would probably be the way to go.

[Yugl]

somewhat on topic, asking for a LS friend: if you had most of the currency already saved up, would you build bravura and vere, or ukon and spharai, assuming equal love for both jobs. inb4 sell currency and do ukon/vere, looking for 1relic/1emp. my instinct tells me spharai/ukon, but i'd like the collective opinions of BG.

Save currency and wait + Ukon. No need to get the Relic done now if your options are Bravura v Spharai.

[Cairthenn]

Spharai/Ukon unless they don't step outside of VW/Abyssea, in which case Spharai is useless to them.

[IronPandemonium]

Spharai/Ukon unless they don't step outside of VW/Abyssea, in which case Spharai is useless to them.

seconded

[EjinCaitsith]

i'm not sure what you put into it to get that result, but basically, being unable to overwrite mythic aftermath makes it very, very, VERY inconvenient a bulk of the time to utilize normally, which case i encourage you to create masamune if anyone happens to feel so inclined to decide between which weapon to 99 for their samurai

The exact same problem exists with Masamune. You need a COR everywhere you go to make it even remotely close to Koga, a bust or unlucky roll will cost Masa a lot of DPS. You need to maintain AM3 with Masa also. (No, saving med for Koga's AM3 is not costing it 8-10% damage compared to riding AM1 on Masamune)

I understand your frustration with Koga in massively buffed situations, where it's extremely devalued by fighter's roll(unless you're lucky enough to have more than 1 mythic in your party to take advantage of sam roll instead) and further devalued by all the attack buffs which nullifies SAM's main advantaged with its attack bonus on Shoha, but it's not the weapon you should be frustrated with(as getting masamune will do nothing to change this situation); it's the job itself. SAM lacks a useful SP and has mediocre unique JA that are useful in a zerg. Take SAM out of that decked out buff situation where you don't have a COR or the mob is actually hard enough for you to benefit that attack bonus and Koga should be king. Although, I guess you could argue Fudo->Fudo makes light in solo DD situations and the SC damage will push it a head, but self SC with Masa w/o JA isn't as easy with Koga(which can basically 99.9% get tp in time for self SC with march x2), so not sure how well that's going to work out.

[Viar]

)
I understand your frustration with Koga in massively buffed situations, where it's extremely devalued by fighter's roll(unless you're lucky enough to have more than 1 mythic in your party to take advantage of sam roll instead)

Just curious, why not just do chaos+ fighter's roll on other DD and do chaos+ SAM roll(or whatever roll you'd want) on Mythic SAM?

[Cairthenn]

The moment you find a COR that's willing to specialize rolls for individual DD in a party, point them in my direction.

[EjinCaitsith]

I'm not even a huge fan of COR for stuff like ADL. You can easily kill it without rolls and the time it takes inviting them and waiting for them to put rolls back up makes me want to rage.

[pooter01]

The moment you find a COR that's willing to specialize rolls for individual DD in a party, point them in my direction.

^

People tend to assume that cor works just like brd, when that is far from the case. cor lacks the ability to target a single player like brd does, nor can they overwrite a buff that they already have on them. I don't know how many times I've been asked to rotate parties as cor and do chaos/tact on both parties. I used to care enough in VW to step aside and give myself tact after giving the melee chaos/miser's, but it just wasn't worth the time. all in all, it's hard enough sometimes to give mages and melee different buffs without someone messing it up. I'm partly glad refresh roll is utter crap now compared to what brd or rdm(lol) can offer.

[Taint]

Take a day off from the forums and miss a good SAM debate!

Masamune gets 20str, Fudo that scales with TP, shits on Kaiten because of TPbonus JAs (Sekk,Haha), moonshade earring and the fact that SAM over TPs more then any other job.

60%+ Zanshin favors Masa over Amano as well.

[IronPandemonium]

The exact same problem exists with Masamune. You need a COR everywhere you go to make it even remotely close to Koga, a bust or unlucky roll will cost Masa a lot of DPS. You need to maintain AM3 with Masa also. (No, saving med for Koga's AM3 is not costing it 8-10% damage compared to riding AM1 on Masamune)

I understand your frustration with Koga in massively buffed situations, where it's extremely devalued by fighter's roll(unless you're lucky enough to have more than 1 mythic in your party to take advantage of sam roll instead) and further devalued by all the attack buffs which nullifies SAM's main advantaged with its attack bonus on Shoha, but it's not the weapon you should be frustrated with(as getting masamune will do nothing to change this situation); it's the job itself. SAM lacks a useful SP and has mediocre unique JA that are useful in a zerg. Take SAM out of that decked out buff situation where you don't have a COR or the mob is actually hard enough for you to benefit that attack bonus and Koga should be king. Although, I guess you could argue Fudo->Fudo makes light in solo DD situations and the SC damage will push it a head, but self SC with Masa w/o JA isn't as easy with Koga(which can basically 99.9% get tp in time for self SC with march x2), so not sure how well that's going to work out.

i wholly agree with this post, by all means, but normally when i envision masamune usage, i also envision level one aftermath a bulk of the time when used with it, since being able to perform an extra two weapon skills with that extra tp paired with the skillchain damage (as you pointed out) outweighs the benefit of level three aftermath, even more-so if you're not in combat for the full duration of the aftermath (outside of vwnm, this is often enough to make just riding am1 the better choice by far in my own opinion at least)

while kogarasumaru can shoha>kasha repeatedly pretty much guaranteed with dual marches (and is worth it imo when applicable over just strict shoha spam), masamune(amanomurakumo) can also do a three-step and can also self-skillchain with ease if timed right ws delay and swing-wise, which in the case of being able to skillchain interrupted (where samurai excels currently really i suppose you can say), it can result in a bonus 2-4k damage from the second light; in essence, basically another weapon skill every three

and then of course, there's the headache of not being able to overwrite am3 for kogarasumaru (saw your post on the of via ah.com, literally grated my dick into a cheese grater with their reply to your request to fix overwriting am3 since i was really hoping they'd go through with it), and just like empyrean aftermath, while you're out of combat, that timer's ticking, and you can't utilize it efficiently enough outside of vwnm/legion for it to even be worth it imo, and even in legion, i found it stupidly inconvenient in muru for example due to dustvoid and/or amnesia, not accounting the other chambers

for example, the last two weeks straight on our non-adl run days, i've been doing my usual thf/dnc and sam/dnc duo for currency in dynamis, and for four of those runs i used kogarasumaru like i normally would, and then the week following i used amanomurakumo just to experiment with the outcome accordingly, and as it turned out, literally, there was no difference currency-wise in the end for all of the runs (440-480) with both weapons, all the while amanomurakumo enabled me to not give a flying fuck about aftermath every three minutes (which in-itself made the runs more enjoyable tbh)

edit: oh, and to the post below there

Just curious, why not just do chaos+ fighter's roll on other DD and do chaos+ SAM roll(or whatever roll you'd want) on Mythic SAM?

as much as i'm sure you already get the jist of why that's a silly suggestion (teehee), until corsair get their own version of pianissimo (unlikely), OR, until everyone's rolling mythics like empyreans/relics (unlikely yet again, unless you're in a yoloswag420dubsronpaul2012-tier shell), gimping everyone non-mythic with samurai roll instead of fighter's roll = ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww