All Worlds Maintenance (Apr. 8)

[Kerberoz]

Oh no no no, don't even try to compare RDM to BLM. BLM has been and always will be one of the strongest jobs in the game, why do you think SE added magic resistance? For lulz?

This is the one question BLMs never answer: What does BLM need that isn't a rehash of SCH's Dark Arts + Stratagems or remove magic resistance so they can become once again one of the most overpowered jobs in the game?

Wow, just wow. Get your head out of 2004 and join the rest of us, please.

What does it need that isn't a rehash of SCH? How about what does SCH have that isn't a rehash of BLM or WHM?

And yeah, that resistance buildup that makes the second person who lands their magic burst do slightly less damage and look gimp compared to the idiot in jet seraweels who cast first is really responsible for all balance in the game. Without that patch we'd be manaburning Cerberus and getting 25k/hr merits stealing all the colibri from the poor defenseless butthurt-from-five-years-ago melee.

[orson]

level 50 Blm Aspir II - Drains HP, HP drained is converted into MP
casting time: 6 seconds, recast time: 90 seconds
Something like that would make Blm far better for parties. Other than that you could give Blm a very situational ability to do something load magic on to melee strike like in FFIX, Pld gets to hit the mob with en-black magic to get the hate. Blm needs a party fix and we deserve a new toy even if it's crappy or situational like footwork or retaliation.

[Infini]

one nice way of fixing BLM in exp would to create mobs with alot of HP BUT gave alot more exp than normal (ie 3 times the normal max HP = 600+ exp per person per kill in a party). Would mean Mobs would actually last long enough for a BLM to manaburst off. But at the same time a BLM SHOULD have a quick reuse JA that let them insta-cast their next spell ppl hated doin MB's cos BLMs in part took too long to cast.

[Destinye]

one nice way of fixing BLM in exp would to create mobs with alot of HP BUT gave alot more exp than normal (ie 3 times the normal max HP = 600+ exp per person per kill in a party). Would mean Mobs would actually last long enough for a BLM to manaburst off. But at the same time a BLM SHOULD have a quick reuse JA that let them insta-cast their next spell ppl hated doin MB's cos BLMs in part took too long to cast.

I think it was only AM MBing that took long, not using normal tiered nukes. SCH even in its original forms was always a mix of a BLM and WHM and a bit stronger than a RDM on the magic end while RDM was stronger on the melee end. Even the DS version of FFIII displays that it's basically a BLM/WHM that can reliably heal or nuke. So you can't say SCH is a rehash of BLM or WHM..because then you should say RDM is a rehash of BLM and WHM especially before it got convert and refresh.

An "instant cast Nuke" Does sound like yet another version of either Fast Cast or Alacrity. So I'm not 'living in 2004', it's the fact if people are still using BLMs today for events..doesn't that mean they're still useful? BLMs just can no longer tear through every mob in the game, I mean people should have realized SOMETHING was going to be done about that. A 'party fix' would be nice, but what would it be? How would it be beneficial to have a BLM in your party when melee are too lazy to make SCs these days? So it has to do with the fact BLM is just very very strong and doesn't exactly need anything to make them even stronger.

Someone who "isn't as geared greatly getting a better nuke" does sound like butthurtness more so than "not being game balance", it's just like agas losing it's punch the more targets it hit from outside of the main blast zone, it's been like that for as long as I can remember FF wise, why would FFXI be any different? It's actually balance that mobs gain a resistance to nukes unlike "back in 2004" when they had little to no resistance and people's strategies were "just add more BLMs."

People like to throw this around when other jobs get butthurt over things, so "Things change, the game evolves."

[Shin Volcano]

All this talk about "Fixing blm" and "what blm needs" BLM does not need anything, because BLM is not broken...seriously, what is so unfair about blm that it absolutly NEEDs an update? at this point, even attempting to give blm anything over what it already has will just over power it, they already have A+ elemental magic skill which is what they are mainly used for, altho there enfeebling magic skill is terrible, but there is plenty of gear and /sch (for brave blm) that fixes that issue, you want Tier V nukes? doing 3k damage raw or somthing? do not QQ over blm not getting a update, i think they are just fine as they are, if they DO get anything, consider it a treat that wasn't needed just like RDM,

At the very most SE may spring an unsuspecting update on the last day like they did with SCH and DNC relic last update, but i have doubts it would be anything worthwhile.
As the old saying goes, if it's not broke, don't fix it.

[thatwasnifty]

At the very most SE may spring an unsuspecting update on the last day like they did with SCH and DNC relic last update, but i have doubts it would be anything worthwhile.

Point of order, SE announced they were releasing SCH and DNC relic gear in an update note, so we knew they were coming before patch day.

Back on topic (sort of), I'm inclined to agree with Infini. While there aren't any fixes needed for endgame, BLM needs some incentive to be invited to exp parties, and since they were kicked out because of squishy mobs that either don't need to be nuked or just throw the spell back at you (not to mention resting downtime for regenerating MP), introducing powerful mobs that give exp/hour comparable to any ToAU camp but that require SC+MB to defeat would make them wanted. But they'd also require some barrier to TP Burns otherwise it'll just be the same thing all over again. Maybe make the mobs squishy when they get hit with a magic burst, so a nuker is pretty much mandatory for such a camp?

[Spungy]

This is the one question BLMs never answer: What does BLM need that isn't a rehash of SCH's Dark Arts + Stratagems or remove magic resistance so they can become once again one of the most overpowered jobs in the game?

A+ in Staff and Evasion. And put us on Kinkobo.

[Shinta]

All this talk about "Fixing blm" and "what blm needs" BLM does not need anything, because BLM is not broken...seriously, what is so unfair about blm that it absolutly NEEDs an update?

and /sch (for brave blm)

You just identified one of the problems right there.

[Day]

Melee jobs broke it completely, SCH was just the finishing touch. When a SAM can just throw out weapon skill after weapon skill that matches their most damaging spells with no downtime, something is wrong. Or BLU being able to throw out damaging spells for 60-80 MP while BLM spells cost two or three times that amount. Or if you don't want to change any of the spell costs, Aspir II is another common suggestion that could help.

Also, they don't need anything to mimic SCH, they need to be able to sub /SCH as SE always intended. They need an equivalent to gravity and stoneskin at the very least so they aren't 100% defenseless and can start to use their best potential subjob. Most people suggest Curse as a new BLM spell 38+ to mimic gravity, and Stoneskin added to SCH pre 37, but that is a little tricky as it gives them their most powerful AoE buff at level 40 and could be completely broken. With BLM's higher spell cost and longer casting times, /SCH would be far better than it is even for WHM.

Then, obviously, they need a new line of spells after SCH. How can SCH learn Thunder IV? BLM learns it at level 75. That is the exact equivalent of SCH learning Raise and Reraise III, the later of which WHM gets at level 75 (until this new update). Most people are thinking of Tier 5 nukes as the most likely solution.

Then of course, magic bursting and skillchains are effectively dead. BLM party invites are almost completely dead from 60-75 besides manaburns. That doesn't need a BLM update, but a battle system update. Also, SE already said they were going to do an overall battle system update for just this purpose.

I started to reply to Destinye but you said it all. Much truth in this post.

[orson]

All this talk about "Fixing blm" and "what blm needs" BLM does not need anything, because BLM is not broken...seriously, what is so unfair about blm that it absolutly NEEDs an update? at this point, even attempting to give blm anything over what it already has will just over power it, they already have A+ elemental magic skill which is what they are mainly used for, altho there enfeebling magic skill is terrible, but there is plenty of gear and /sch (for brave blm) that fixes that issue, you want Tier V nukes? doing 3k damage raw or somthing? do not QQ over blm not getting a update, i think they are just fine as they are, if they DO get anything, consider it a treat that wasn't needed just like RDM,

At the very most SE may spring an unsuspecting update on the last day like they did with SCH and DNC relic last update, but i have doubts it would be anything worthwhile.
As the old saying goes, if it's not broke, don't fix it.

That's where you're wrong Blm isn't broken but it needs a fix. In most situations it nukes less efficiently than a Sch. With Klimaform + weather buffs Sch actually is very close to Blm's resistant rates. A small amount more MAB and elemental gear and Sch will easily out nuke Blm on everything. Now It's true Blm can sub /Sch if they're as you put it "brave" for better nuking efficiency but I'd call it "stupid." Losing out on erase, stoneskin, gravity, and phalanx is not plausible in most scenarios Blm is in. Right now Sch is almost as good a nuker as Blm and has far more versatility. The only real edge Blm has over Sch is stun (which Rdm/Drk is better for,) higher level -ga nukes (extremely situational uses,) and Sleepga II.

Whm was in a similar boat but the biggest difference was they could actually use /Sch incredibly effectively and it also had popularity in exp parties (even meripo.) If Blm doesn't need an update than Whm didn't at all. Not only that Blm is useless in almost all parties. Also their are only a few NMs that melee or rngs aren't a lot better on (and very soon Cor will easily out parse Blms on great Wyrms.) Blm isn't a over powered job it's just a good DD on some NMs mostly because it can provide support and keep itself alive.

[Not Kuno]

That's where you're wrong Blm isn't broken but it needs a fix it on most thing is nukes less efficiently than a Sch. With Klimaform + weather buffs Sch actually is very close to Blm is resistant rates a small amount more MAB and elemental gear and Sch will easily out nuke Blm on everything. Now It's true Blm can sub /Sch if they're as you put it "brave" for better nuking efficiency but I'd call it "stupid." Losing out on erase, stoneskin, gravity, and phalanx is not plausible in most scenarios Blm is in. Right now Sch is almost as good a nuker as Blm and has far more versatility. The only real edge Blm has over Sch is stun (which Rdm/Drk is better for,) higher level -ga nukes (extremely situational uses,) and Sleepga II

Whm was in a similar boat but the biggest difference was they could actually use /Sch incredibly effectively. If Blm doesn't need an update than Whm didn't at all. Not only that Blm is useless in almost all parties. Also their are only a few NMs that melee or rngs aren't a lot better on (and very soon Cor will easily out parse Blms on great Wyrms.) Blm isn't a over powered job it's just a good DD on some NMs mostly because it can provide support and keep itself alive.

Shhh. Logic isn't allowed in these parts. Let's just go back to chanting BLM bad and ingoring all the flaws that came up with the job in the last 4 years.

[Knightfell]

Shhh. Logic isn't allowed in these parts. Let's just go back to chanting BLM bad and ingoring all the flaws that came up with the job in the last 4 years.

Ya know, I wonder how much of it is trolling/holding a grudge since 04, verses actual belief.

[chiyio]

one nice way of fixing BLM in exp would to create mobs with alot of HP BUT gave alot more exp than normal (ie 3 times the normal max HP = 600+ exp per person per kill in a party). Would mean Mobs would actually last long enough for a BLM to manaburst off. But at the same time a BLM SHOULD have a quick reuse JA that let them insta-cast their next spell ppl hated doin MB's cos BLMs in part took too long to cast.

They have mobs that are kinda like that, they're called Qutrubs. They have higher HP, but take triple skillchain damage to try to encourage that kind of fighting method. Guess how well that worked.

Back on topic (sort of), I'm inclined to agree with Infini. While there aren't any fixes needed for endgame, BLM needs some incentive to be invited to exp parties, and since they were kicked out because of squishy mobs that either don't need to be nuked or just throw the spell back at you (not to mention resting downtime for regenerating MP), introducing powerful mobs that give exp/hour comparable to any ToAU camp but that require SC+MB to defeat would make them wanted.

Or they could just remove the cap on summoned mobs so BLM's can once again make 15k/hr (which is still less than most merit PT's get)

[Ultimagi]

Just have to point out a couple things.

The only real edge Blm has over Sch is stun (which Rdm/Drk is better for,) higher level -ga nukes (extremely situational uses,) and Sleepga II.

Scholar can sub Dark Knight for Stun as well, although you'd be giving up some of the more useful White Magic spells. Also, Scholar doesn't have any area spells, and can't use Manifestation on Elemental Magic. The only way it would have any is by subbing Black Mage. But it can use Manifestation on Sleep II, therefore it does sort of have Sleepga II.

[Xno Kappa]

Ya know, I wonder how much of it is trolling/holding a grudge since 04, verses actual belief.

I just chalk it up to retardation. Pretty much sums up that side of the argument.

[orson]

They have mobs that are kinda like that, they're called Qutrubs. They have higher HP, but take triple skillchain damage to try to encourage that kind of fighting method. Guess how well that worked.


Or they could just remove the cap on summoned mobs so BLM's can once again make 15k/hr (which is still less than most merit PT's get)

They don't give a lot of extra EXP though that's the issue.

The bolded part would be freaking awesome though.

[orson]

Just have to point out a couple things.

Scholar can sub Dark Knight for Stun as well, although you'd be giving up some of the more useful White Magic spells. Also, Scholar doesn't have any area spells, and can't use Manifestation on Elemental Magic. The only way it would have any is by subbing Black Mage. But it can use Manifestation on Sleep II, therefore it does sort of have Sleepga II.

I'm just more pointing the things Blm is expected to bring to the table in a lot of events. Stun is a no brainer, -ga nukes are good for rare fights like the Puk 75 cap ISNM, and ES + Sleepga II is great for big time crowd control in places like Xarc where mobs are a bit more resistant to sleep.

[Infini]

Still in the end BLM's major weakness comes down to 1) horrible MP inefficiency and 2) excessive downtime. Id still personally like an increase in BLM's spells to include Tier V singles and Tier IV aga as the biggest nukes with high MP cost with tier IV and Tier III aga with far less MP to cast but end of the day till somethings done to make BLM a viable addition to an exp pt its just gonna end up languishing in the corner.

[Ultimagi]

I already fixed Black Mage in the job adjustments thread:

The super secret Third Half of job adjustments for Black Mages!

Job Ability : Infusco Cupiditas
Duration 10 minutes
Recast 1 minute
Accumulates potency and accuracy of Black Magic, while also accumulating increased MP costs, casting times, and recast times.

Job Ability : Infusco Veneratio
Duration 10 minutes
Recast 1 minute
Stores an amount of magic damage dealt with Black Magic, up to an amount varying by the player's level, used to augment Spikes spells. Increases duration of Spikes spells to 5 minutes.
Blaze Spikes; added effect Stoneskin.
Ice Spikes; added effect Blink.
Shock Spikes; added effect Aquaveil.

I should totally work for Square-Enix.

Edit: To save you from looking it up, they're latin for Dark Ambition, and Dark Reverence.

[arus2001]

Not to mention Qutrubs are stupidly evasive and Mangle or their AoE Drain isn't exactly Pecking Flurry on the "kindness to your healer" factor.