Learning a second language

[Norellicus]

So I've had this recent urge to learn another language, specifically Japanese...and don't really know a good way to go about it. I mean sure there's tons of different programs out there for it, Rosetta Stone and such, but lots of them are really expensive ($600 for the Rosetta Stone set!) and I'm concerned about pouring money into an ineffective process or something that won't really teach more than "tourists" communication...ideally I'd like to learn enough that I can eventually read and converse properly.

Any suggestions or testimonies to a method that you've found that works well? Your experience doesn't have to be with Japanese either, I'm just looking for general feedback on anyone who's gone through and learned another language on what worked for them.

Could also maybe use some insight on how much work I'd be getting myself into, I don't expect to learn overnight but don't really have the time to devote more than an hour maximum to it per day.

[ikariiiii]

I speak 4 languages apart from English, and really the only advice I can give you is practice as much as you can- find other people who are learning the same language and practice with them, there is no better way to get good at something other than manual practicing. You can stick your nose in a book or use a program for years but it wont amount to any good if it doesn't come naturally. It also helps to try and listen to news broadcasts (and in the case of Japanese, anime <_<) and shows and try to pick up on whats going on.

As for learning Japanese, I would recommend getting the standard in Japanese learning textbooks, a workbook/textbook set titled "An Integrated Course in Elementary Japanese". It'll run you about 80 bucks or so used for the two but they are great sources for starting off. And always invest in a dictionary if you're really serious.

Good luck!

[Daydreamer]

alljapaneseallthetime.com Seriously, it's good.

[Hyan]

Anki - friendly, intelligent flashcards

^I use this to learn hira/katakana and kanji, it works wonders for myself at least. I advise you to make your own deck, and add like maybe one letter a day, depending on how many meanings it has (for hira/kata adding 2~3 a day should be fine, they're not that hard). I'm up to around 200 kanji in ~4 months now, and I have had no problems remembering the letters yet. You have to practice every day and any chance you get though, or you'll start forgetting them kinda fast :/. As to where to get the letters and their meanings I can't help you (I take mine from finnish site, with around 1000 different letters). I'm sure there's at least some english sites that you can use though.

Playing games in japanese and watching TV/anime is also good idea (If you have a PSP, the remakes of the first 2 FF's that came out some time ago and can be played in english or japanese with or without kanji's. It's also simple enough that you may be able to understand it without too much trouble with just little knowledge of japanese).

[viperlasson]

Take namasensei's japanese lessons on youtube :O!

YouTube - Namasensei's Japanese Lessons - Lesson 1 Hiragana

He's a good teacher.

[miokomioko]

Rosetta Stone is worth it if you plan on making frequent use of it. I plan on moving to France. Thus, the French set was a good investment. (Works surprisingly well too.)

Also, on top of your normal classes/practice/lessons/etc that you end up doing, which teach proper and formal speech, I recommend watching foreign (subtitled in english) modern films and/or television as it is excellent for learning casual/slang as well as common and natural pronunciation. Your formal lessons will allow you to hear compare the subtitles to the spoken word to figure out the structure and appriopriateness to the situation.

Edit: Don't use anime and old samurai films' speech as reference. It is vastly different than how normal people talk. Watch some independent/contemporary films where people act normal.

[Senoska]

Take a class. Its very worth it and they will teach you at a decent pace. Rosetta stone gives you full sentences and doesn't explain any of the grammar. It's almost impossible to learn anything beyond maybe the first two lessons.

Also, you can torrent rosetta stone. Theres no reason to buy it, really.

[Ziphor]

Anki looks pretty sweet, I'm in beg. Japanese 3 and that programs looks useful to me.

The youtube link is funny, he is pretty decent too.


As for learning Japanese, i've been using Genki "An integrated Course in Elementary Japanese" in school for Beg. 1-3 along with its workbook. You can prolly pick that up and learn a lot on your own but, as stated before, immersion in the language is what will really teach you best. Find local groups and go talk/practice often!

[Correction]

600 bucks is more than enough to get you into a regular conversation class local to where you live (assuming you live somewhere reasonably metropolitan). Screw Rosetta Stone.

Personally I never had any language stick to me (French, Latin, etc.) unless I was in a classroom using it and made time to actually use it outside of the classroom. It's stupid and embarrassing and it takes up a lot of time but you WILL absolutely learn things more permanently if you force yourself to go out once a week and use it in a conversational setting. Kind of like going to the gym.

I never used software outside of listening CD/workbook combos. Those ARE worth the money. The best ones offer little tests with listening sections.

Don't jump in waist deep in Kanji studies from the get go. Take little bits and ends of what you need (The Hadamitzky/Spahn 'Learner's' books are EXCELLENT for this) and grab more and more as you grow comfortable with what you've mastered. There are much more comprehensive books for hardcore Kanji study (here's one) but really only 2nd year and up students of Japanese need apply there.

[Kiro]

I should really just learn to shut the fuck up and keep my trolling in spam.


Edit: NO YOU STFU CAT

[Darus Grey]

Rosetta Stone is garbage for the money it cost.

Learning a second language well isn't something you do part time, it took me almost 15 years to be considered fluent in French, I spoke it every-day, made friends with French speakers, when I played MMOs I joined French/Qubec guilds if I could, and for FPS and the like I joined French Clans. Just so I could spend as much time as possible being immersed.

The enviroment you use it in doesn't matter...but you have to use it. Immersion is the only tried and true method for language accuisition.

[Tyche]

Rosetta stone is free >.> JUST LIKE PHOTOSHOP!

[Devek]

The conspiracy theory is that adobe is the one who releases the cracks for photoshop in order to make its use ubiquitous.

[Mizango]

lol Kiro is a monster.

I took 7 years of Latin if that counts =/ I know, I know, dead language and all.

[Atreides]

I took 3 years of japanese in college while studying 4 years of chinese, and came out knowing near-fluent chinese and relatively proficient japanese. There's something to be said for college-level, formal language classes, it'd be worth checking your local colleges/universities to see how much it would cost to audit a class.

As for texts I used Nakama 1 for my first year of Japanese, was really straightforward and helpful.

[Komm Suesser Tod]

Another thing you can do to really let the language sink in is to go around your house and label things. Everything you can label with a sticky note, do so. Really helps you think in the language.

[Mizango]

Another thing you can do to really let the language sink in is to go around your house and label things. Everything you can label with a sticky note, do so. Really helps you think in the language.

We had to do an exercise like that in college, I thought it was stupid as hell but Ill be damned it does indeed work.

Seno is our resident weaboo, I'd take his advice. Just don't follow his advice in regards to financial aid and transcripts.

[Senoska]

Atreides is the one you should listen too. Dude knows his shit. And he is right, college level classes or bust. Also, I also used the Genki books, but they are absolutely not self-help books. You really need to be in a class room setting for genki to really work. That being said I'm not the biggest fan because of how they did Kanji. They will show you a kanji charater once in like a cliffnote and expect you to know it. It's a real pain in the ass. Luckly there is hiragana charaters above each kanji and they really help.

I can list you a million reasons why learning Japanese outside of a classroom is a REALLY bad idea. Japanese isn't that hard and it's not something to be scared about, but you really need proper introduction into it. If nothing else, the classroom really gets you use to speaking with other people.

[Zhais]

I really liked the nakama books for learning, but maybe that was also because it was in a classroom setting.

Pretty much, go for the college level courses. You will learn so much more than trying to read out of a book.

[Meian]

Take a class. Its very worth it and they will teach you at a decent pace. Rosetta stone gives you full sentences and doesn't explain any of the grammar. It's almost impossible to learn anything beyond maybe the first two lessons.

Also, you can torrent rosetta stone. Theres no reason to buy it, really.

This 100x. Everything else is more of a way to help you on your way (depending on how advance you want to learn the language)

irasshai
Good site try out the video section which is somewhat humerous but helps (there was a great site that had funny videos to remember hiragana/katakana but I can't find it; I thought it was on irasshai site but can't locate it...)

Another thing you can do to really let the language sink in is to go around your house and label things. Everything you can label with a sticky note, do so. Really helps you think in the language.

This too especially if you have a Japanese/English dictionary to label stuff even outside like traffic light, trees, restaurant, etc.


The book they made us use was called "Japanese: The Spoken Language" but it is pretty damn old although still good (speaking purposes only). They have one called "Japanese: The Written Language" also but I think the other's suggestions may be better in terms of books.