DNC @ events

[Shin Volcano]

Pretty much the same thing i did, also whm, rdm, and sch, but i have to force dnc to get any use other then campaign. but i will admit, it does pretty well in Merit Parties, last 2 i went we had 0 downtime because of constant healing, and i was the only possible heal in the pt, but again..GL convincing people to let you go DNC.

[Toth]

A player coming DNC over WHM for Einherjar....sounds like you have someone who's priorities are not shell centered. I feel for you. Personally, I'd only come DNC if we had a surplus of healing jobs and brds and there was no immediate need for my COR.

Still, we've won a dragon/scorpion/demons tier 3 with MNK/DNC, DRG/WHM, and me as PUP/DRG...so anything is possible :D

[Talint]

What use would a DNC be in a Tier 3 Einherjar?

Forgot about Einherjar. Yeah, I wouldn't bring DNC to Einherjar either.

And any DNC who is trying to DD is wasting people's time. It's competent enough to justify a spot in party, and Kleos can throw down a decent number on top of the evasion down, but it's certainly not going to win any parses. The better the DNC does DD wise, the gimpier your other DDs are.

[Jakson]

I must not bring DNC to events.
DNC is the mind-killer.
DNC is the little-melee that uses TP for debuffs and heals.
I will bring my DNC.
I will permit it to cure tanks and inflict Magic Evasion down.
And when the mob has died past I will check my parser to see the dmg %.
Where the DNC has fought there will be nothing.
Only PUP will remain.

Araelus is my favorite poster. Eh posts maths and references to good books and doesn't afraid of anything.

[Toth]

Forgot about Einherjar. Yeah, I wouldn't bring DNC to Einherjar either.

And any DNC who is trying to DD is wasting people's time. It's competent enough to justify a spot in party, and Kleos can throw down a decent number on top of the evasion down, but it's certainly not going to win any parses. The better the DNC does DD wise, the gimpier your other DDs are.

I disagree somewhat. I don't think anyone can say a DD DNC can win a parser for the exact reason you posted, but with Saber Dance, low delay, and 400 attack at least just with food and decent gear, you'd be surprised what kind of damage we can do. Still, the supporting abilities and sambas are supposed to make up for the lower DNC output and well....

[Cream Soda]

Aside from haste samba, if you're not going to cure, you can get everything out of a DD/dnc as you could a dnc. A sam/dnc for example debuffing is still going to blow a dnc out of the water in every situation in DD. If the extra healing isn't needed, you're better off on another job. Dnc is not a DD.

[Falisa]

In the argument of how much damage a DNC can put out, you can't put on a parser how much more damage a DNC makes other DD in the group do. Same way with a BRD or COR, just because they themselves aren't doing any damage doesn't mean that they aren't putting out good numbers due to what they do to the other people in that party. So even though a DNC may come out lower on the parser than other DD, think about how much more accurate, faster and stronger your DD are hitting due to what the DNC does to them. And you've got some heals to boot.

Of course DNC is a situational job, and it's not good for alot of events. There are some serious flaws in my opinion with the job itself which I really agree with what Talint has said in his own post. But I've never had a situation where I've gone DNC to a party and regretted it, and neither had anyone else in the event.

I personally think this argument is useless, because any job can have its uses in any event and its up to the person running it to decide whether or not its worth having them come as that job. Alot of people are stuck in a certain mindset about Dancer and assume that its a useless job.

[Cream Soda]

[QUOTE=Falisa;2619907] And you've got some heals to boot.

QUOTE]

That's my point. If you're getting extra heals that are needed, it's all good. I'm talking about those that think "ok I'm gonna come dnc and straight up DD".

[Kaludneisucks]

I'll use our example as a segue:

Our setup was NIN MNK SAM DNC WHM RDM BRD BLM on Apollyon NE (the dhamels).

creamsoda
you died 2x with with this setup and you blame the DNC?

[Isiolia]

Does it really matter if the acc is only 95%? I thought if you miss a swing, the next swing will land before the samba wears off (typically). Although I am no dancer I could very well be wrong on this.

The mob's Samba effect won't wear off in that time, no. What he's talking about is that Haste Samba reduces the delay to your next melee swing on (presumably) a per hit basis. So the player's next attack round, after they miss, will be slower.

[Toth]

The thing is, Vegetto, if I went in with the complete mindset of a DD, I wouldn't have bothered using haste samba or steps or anything. Dancer can't just click the attack button and go afk until the mob is dead. A Dancer in my experience can do two things well: be a DD/support or Heal/support. A DNC's primary role should be keeping up a cycle of sambas and steps to weaken the mob and strengthen your party. Then you look at your party and see what is needed.

Few DDs and adequate healing? Focus on your damage abilities (i.e Saber Dance) and use BF for strong WSes in between samba recasts and steps.

Several DDs and little healing? Use Reverse Flourish from steps and maintain a healthy waltz cycle.

[TacoTaru]

you died 2x with with this setup and you blame the DNC?

This was my thought.

[Cream Soda]

The thing is, Vegetto, if I went in with the complete mindset of a DD, I wouldn't have bothered using haste samba or steps or anything.

Considering that haste samba and steps also increase your damage by making you attack faster and lowering their evasion/defense, I don't see how your statement makes any sense at all.

[Charismatic]

That's because it doesn't.

[Toth]

Using sambas and steps/flourishes = loss of TP and time meleeing = less damage than 'auto attack then WS@100, then repeat' DD mentality . That's what I mean by the DD/support hybrid model of DNC.

[Cream Soda]

Less time melee'ing, but faster attack rounds with samba, haste (if u were being hasted) and march we had. As well as the time/tp used to step, -8 acc on first tier of quickstep which should help you land more hits in your TP phase and during your ws. If you're trying to say you lose damage, >.>

[FailureMidgard]

who what when why where?

[Shin Volcano]

Umm, your post seems to contradict itself somewhat...anyway, the huge flaw with dancer, as opposed to bard/corsair, is the fact that your accuracy/attack bonuses are mob debuffs. In any event where you are trying to clear through many mobs as quickly as possible (merit, limbus, salvage, dynamis, einherjar), a dancer cannot contribute anywhere near what other support can due to this fact. It takes a dancer a full minute to stack 1 step up to full potency...nothing should be living that long.

Last i checked not everything can be killed in less then a minute, no matter how good your DD are. each one of those events has mobs that have a large amount of HP, Merit is the only thing that everything dies in a very short amount of time, and DNC does well in even those unless you're a "haste only job plz" player. and i don't recall any other support job being able to give Defense, Magic evasion and evasion down all in 1 job, they can contribute alot imo. it just takes people with a comeplte none-elitst mindset to accept the job, of course it's not useful for most events, but it sure as hell does help other dd kill it alot faster.

There's nothing wrong with someone leveling and enjoying their dancer...it may even be the proper job for someone to bring to an event based on other jobs they have leveled being less useful, but I don't think a dancer is part of an optimal setup for anything at all in this game. /dnc on the other hand can be somewhat useful.

I can think of plenty, since i have tested it out in almost each one of those events, it iS usefull, so untill def, Magic evasion and evasion down on a mob are useless. it works just fine, unless by your logic, every single thing you fight is being zerg style killed. and even then 1 box step (10% def down) with dia is still a huge plus.

[Shinryuu]

DNC WAR/SAM DRK/SAM BRD COR RDM, 20% gear haste (bit less for DRK if he's equally geared to WAR and no speed belt), 10% hasso, 10% samba, 15% spell, 21ish% marches, Fighter's, Chaos.

76% haste and a job that allows you to fulltime the hasso. Yum.

Shame Remora sucks and there's no good DNCs.

[Cream Soda]

Not related to endgame, but just took out a pld/rdm with my dnc in ballista, lol. Just No Foot Rised at the start for initial tp then used steps/reverse flourish to keep myself alive. Cast shadows to waste his mp on diaga then he kept using stoneskin phal ect. After 20 mins or so, ran his shit dry and kept up aspir samba II any time i took down his stoneskin and would voke/stun to drain as much mp as i could before he could get it back up. Took about 25-30 mins total to finish the job.