DNC @ events

[Talint]

I can think of plenty, since i have tested it out in almost each one of those events, it iS usefull, so untill def, Magic evasion and evasion down on a mob are useless. it works just fine, unless by your logic, every single thing you fight is being zerg style killed. and even then 1 box step (10% def down) with dia is still a huge plus.

The first Box Step is not 10%. I don't know why people keep saying that.

A full level 5 Box Step is something like 12-13%. And in a merit party (or other mobs-that-die-fast situation) you should use a Quickstep anyway.

[urat]

For end game, I find Dancer to really not be that great now with experience. Mainly because most of our JA's don't affect people outside the party 9Has anyone tested whether steps carry over to others? I assume so)

I can generally deal some damage in dynamis, nyzul, etc, but for the most part my role is to backup heal when the mages run low on mp.

Sadly for large group events like dynamis dance becomes extremely gimp, unless you're in the party with the tanks. Many times I've had to sit and watch the tank die because they were in seperate party of alliance. SE needs to let us cure alliance members D:

Other than that, I dunno about limbus etc, I assume we'd be better since it's a lot lower member count, allowing us to contribute more.

/shrug all I got to say, aside from ,if you got another job aside from pup, bring that to dyna, cause being a dancer in dynamis is probably most boring thing in the game aside from campaigning on a fortification @_@

[Shin Volcano]

The first Box Step is not 10%. I don't know why people keep saying that.

A full level 5 Box Step is something like 12-13%. And in a merit party (or other mobs-that-die-fast situation) you should use a Quickstep anyway.

wait, what? a full level 5 is 30% total..lol..unless you can prove me wrong on that.

If it's a zerg style, youw ill have a brd taking care of accuracy, so box step is ussaly a smarter choice, you can use quick step if you want but i prefer box step since i dont normaly see acc issues.

[Talint]

wait, what? a full level 5 is 30% total..lol..unless you can prove me wrong on that.

If it's a zerg style, youw ill have a brd taking care of accuracy, so box step is ussaly a smarter choice, you can use quick step if you want but i prefer box step since i dont normaly see acc issues.

Allakhazam.com: Final Fantasy XI

And I didn't mean zerging. I meant "mobs-that-die-fast" situations; things like Dynamis or meriting.

[Shin Volcano]

hmm i guess they changed from 30% to 13% from the last time i read it, and only the normal mobs die fast, im talking bosses and other high hp mobs. and dynamis is a massive event with lots of people. merit pts you are mainly healing not bothering with steps, (except for finhsing moves of course) just about anything goes in dynamis.

and it still stands, if a brd or even 2 handers are invovled quick step won't help vs box step even for 5%

and wtf even wika changed it to 13% well that just shot any further hopes down, way to go SE.

[Zilong]

hmm i guess they changed from 30% to 13% from the last time i read it, and only the normal mobs die fast, im talking bosses and other high hp mobs. and dynamis is a massive event with lots of people. merit pts you are mainly healing not bothering with steps, (except for finhsing moves of course) just about anything goes in dynamis.

and it still stands, if a brd or even 2 handers are invovled quick step won't help vs box step even for 5%

and wtf even wika changed it to 13% well that just shot any further hopes down, way to go SE.

It's always 13%...with 5+2+2+2+2, where the fuck are you getting 30% from? It's never that.

[VZX]

Some idiot changed the entry in wiki. Not the first time, not the last time. If you feel the number is not right from wiki, check the history, who changed it.

[Kairos]

Actually, he goes to events as DNC maybe 90% of the time. Other 10% he's either NIN or RDM -- if we're really short on members.

I can confirm this. He goes to events roughly 90-95% of events as dnc. That guy is the best thing since sliced bread and I can't wait until he's done with his mythic. Plenty of people thing dnc is a waste in end game because just like several other jobs, the majority of the playerbase suck at playing it or have the wrong idea about what it's supposed to do. A lot of the dnc i've been in a party with at events are terrible for 1 reason: They think they are full on DD. Most dnc will put boosting their own damage over tossing out a heal or samba for the benefit of the party. They generally will horde their tp and not heal anyone but themselves.

The dnc in our ls has the perfect balance of healing and doing damage, and that's why he is allowed to come as dnc to almost every event. I almost never see him on nin, and the only reason he's ever on rdm is because a lot of the linkshell's rdms are also our blms. Every dnc i see at endgame now i compare them to him, and so far none have measured up.

[Cream Soda]

How does he do on gods/hnms/ect? or events with heavy AoE dmg such as dyna/ejar/ect?

[Shin Volcano]

It's always 13%...with 5+2+2+2+2, where the fuck are you getting 30% from? It's never that.

The quote just below this explained where the fuck i got it from, could you be more rude about it? when i was leveling DNC i did alot of reserch on it and looked up the steps and at that time somone had put its was 10%-5-5-5-5 as the number line went, and of course i don't go back and check it every damn time, this is why random people shouldn't be allowed to edit wika without Proper Reserch and testing, because for the longest time since then i did thought it was 30% but 13% honestly dosnt make me feel better either, i don't even know what was so wrong with 30% at least give dancers an incentive..

Some idiot changed the entry in wiki. Not the first time, not the last time. If you feel the number is not right from wiki, check the history, who changed it.

[Talint]

I can confirm this. He goes to events roughly 90-95% of events as dnc. That guy is the best thing since sliced bread and I can't wait until he's done with his mythic. Plenty of people thing dnc is a waste in end game because just like several other jobs, the majority of the playerbase suck at playing it or have the wrong idea about what it's supposed to do. A lot of the dnc i've been in a party with at events are terrible for 1 reason: They think they are full on DD. Most dnc will put boosting their own damage over tossing out a heal or samba for the benefit of the party. They generally will horde their tp and not heal anyone but themselves.

The dnc in our ls has the perfect balance of healing and doing damage, and that's why he is allowed to come as dnc to almost every event. I almost never see him on nin, and the only reason he's ever on rdm is because a lot of the linkshell's rdms are also our blms. Every dnc i see at endgame now i compare them to him, and so far none have measured up.

Maybe I've been playing DNC wrong all this time, but the shortcomings from DNC aren't attributed to a playstyle. There's a lot of smart players on these boards (smarter than I, that's for sure), and a lot of them come to the same conclusions about the job.

I'm interested in hearing what we've all been doing wrong.

[orinthia]

Something I got used to doing on pld is cross-curing, and it drives me nuts not being able to cross-cure on dnc. It's especially evident at events where your ws dmg will not be worth it; where you'll want to ride high tp for waltzes. Your pt won't always need the cures while the quickness of waltzes can certainly get others out of red hp in a flash. Sucks I can't do that... terribly annoying watching others outside your pt getting KO'd while mages are casting cures.

There's a couple other things that grind my gears but that's the biggest one. It's great for taking care of a single pt and making the mob a little easier to hit, dmg, and debuff/nuke though. But when I want to bring it it's a little rough since my pld, war, and drk are fairly well geared and we usually need the dmg/tank more

[Falisa]

One thing I would try to do if I ever actually came DNC to anything, I would ask the mages to not waste their MP curing the people in the party I was in. You have to work with your healers that go with you so that you are more useful in whatever party you are placed in. If the mages that are curing your party focus on the people you can't touch, they can conserve their MP and not waste it on curing someone you're about to get a waltz off on.

This is just my opinion though. I found that DNC would work best as a DD party healer, and let the RDMs and WHMs worry about the tanks/other mages.

Also, I don't see how I was contradicting myself in my other post. I'm saying DNC has its strengths that alot of people overlook, but there are some glaring flaws in the job's mechanics. I would praise the heavens if SE suddenly allowed waltz to work on anyone outside of your party.

[Shin Volcano]

I think this is precisly why they are most helpful in low manned events, because not being able to ally cure also drives me nuts, and i'v watched alot of bad mages, it nearly pisses me off watching somone in the other alliance pt sit in red for 2 minutes and i can't do shit about it as dnc, so all i can do is watch in horror. or yell at the mage for them.

[Faithe]

A friend of mine goes on DNC/WHM for Einherjar with us. He always get thrown into a party of WHM DNC BRD Melee x 3 or RDM DNC BRD Melee x 3. He doesn't melee boss and on tier III the melee sure are glad that he's there. Trance seems to be very welcomed, better than benediction and the boss usually dies before Trance is over.

[deiopea]

In the argument of how much damage a DNC can put out, you can't put on a parser how much more damage a DNC makes other DD in the group do. Same way with a BRD or COR, just because they themselves aren't doing any damage doesn't mean that they aren't putting out good numbers due to what they do to the other people in that party. So even though a DNC may come out lower on the parser than other DD, think about how much more accurate, faster and stronger your DD are hitting due to what the DNC does to them. And you've got some heals to boot.

Of course DNC is a situational job, and it's not good for alot of events. There are some serious flaws in my opinion with the job itself which I really agree with what Talint has said in his own post. But I've never had a situation where I've gone DNC to a party and regretted it, and neither had anyone else in the event.

I personally think this argument is useless, because any job can have its uses in any event and its up to the person running it to decide whether or not its worth having them come as that job. Alot of people are stuck in a certain mindset about Dancer and assume that its a useless job.

This exactly!

Sometimes we stick him in a PT with DDs to for the extra haste, extra enfeebles, extra cures, help with status effect removals, etc. On events where there is a shortage of mages, he's usually in a PT with WHM as the only healer.

Keep in mind, we have the luxury of exceptional DDs and mages which allows us to fool around with the possibilities of nonconventional jobs. We also have a full time BLU.

[Toth]

The problem I see with makeups sometimes is that as a DNC I get put into parties with WHMs and or/RDMs. Then the WHM/RDM or DNC assumes the other will main heal, leading to unwanted circumstances. If MP isn't an issue, I don't see why a DNC can't focus his TP on maintaining a samba/step/animated flourish cycle instead of using almost all their TP on a cure V a WHM could easily put out. I guess roles just need to be defined by the party members.

[VZX]

I found DNC is lacking control on their TP.
- You either conserve your TP till 200+ for ohshit moment or you DD. You can't do both or changing from 1 mode to another as fast as other job like, say, SAM (or SCH). If you do WS, there's no guarantee NFR, steps, or reverse flourish will be up in next 2-3 secs after you WS.
- We are lacking control on Building Flourish. Why it always consume 3 FM whenever you have it while only 2 FM is guaranteed to be useful. It's really a waste using 3FM BF for Dancing Edge.
- Saber Dance is nice if you only know the next 5 minutes your party doesn't need healing at all. Most of the time, I activate it and switch it off in next 30s-40s because someone need curing waltz/healing waltz.

[Toth]

I found DNC is lacking control on their TP.
- You either conserve your TP till 200+ for ohshit moment or you DD. You can't do both or changing from 1 mode to another as fast as other job like, say, SAM (or SCH). If you do WS, there's no guarantee NFR, steps, or reverse flourish will be up in next 2-3 secs after you WS.
- We are lacking control on Building Flourish. Why it always consume 3 FM whenever you have it while only 2 FM is guaranteed to be useful. It's really a waste using 3FM BF for Dancing Edge.
- Saber Dance is nice if you only know the next 5 minutes your party doesn't need healing at all. Most of the time, I activate it and switch it off in next 30s-40s because someone need curing waltz/healing waltz.

Three points I fully agree with. I DD and use my TP precisely for that reason. Hording all the TP in most cases is counter-productive.

[Kairos]

Keep in mind, we have the luxury of exceptional DDs and mages which allows us to fool around with the possibilities of nonconventional jobs. We also have a full time BLU.

oh... yeah..... right. That's the part I forget and take for granted. There is also the issue of redundancy too. I think when you have really good DD and mages, then there is no point in just adding more mages to sit around bored off their ass (Sarameya, ugh boring) throwing maybe a cure every other minute. When you have strong players and strong framework already, the diversifying your alliance with different uncommon jobs can make the group as a whole run much better than just adding say another rdm or whm who would be doing much of nothing.