RDM Tanking V2

[Greenjade]

All righty folks another RDM tanking type question. I've kinda been tempted to see how I'd hold up against Ultima. With the upcoming update and the increased inventory space and me getting the token just to have the +80 spaces...The possibilities are endless with gear that I can carry. I'm wondering what should I expect from Ultima? Is it like fighting JoL and just standing there casting the same hate building spells over and over again? Would I need anything special?

http://i41.tinypic.com/29qiao2.jpg

That's my current tanking gear right now. I'm going to work on getting a physical reduction set going once I max out my inventory over the weekend. I'm planning on borrowing a friend's Cerb Mantle and maybe grab a Eris earring to maximize Enmity. And yes I do have a good co-tank so any ideas would be good. o.o;

[dejet]

i think with the token its like having a ON the go mog house. dont think you can equip from there till you move it to your bag? but that still opens up a lot for say meds holding and stuff. gear swap might be limited to what you can in the bag still. not to say windower cant fix this i guess though... lol

if im wrong point me out but thats how i was reading it.

edit: i have W legs legs on most the time myself for the hp/mp and if it could turn into a kitied fight.
also what is your HP at in that set? do you hit 1500 hp with food? with the set up i have(although limited by the gear i have) i have 1500-1600hp at all times with food on. its nice for when a random full blown attack gets by as your casting shadows or something

[BerenTebogo]

You either left out what you cast spells in or you cast spells in your idle gear.

If the second is correct then, BAD! BAD BAD NO!

Full enmity+ for blind / dispel / hate spells, full haste for shadows, idle in damage-% > HP > evasion > parrying > anything but idling in enmity gear. It sounds silly to advocate idling in parrying+ if you don't have any of the above before it, but really think about it. Maybe your parry % chance increases by 0.5% that's 0.5% more of something than the nothing that idling in enmity+ is doing for you.

[Raen Ryong]

Enmity does nothing while you're idle (only when taking actions), so if you can replace enmity items there it would be helpful (Orochi Nodowa instead of what looks to be Harmonia's Torque for instance)?

Physical damage set as you mentioned obviously with Terra's Staff.

I don't tank on RDM but wouldn't it be a good idea to use Phalanx too? Pretty nice for a constant damage reduction, you have the +enhancing gear there anyway.

In terms of building hate you simply spam your best hate building tools (Dispel Blind Sleep 2 etc) while maintaining shadows pretty much.

I've never tanked on my RDM before so I can't give you much more than a PLD's perspective on it sadly, I'm sure other posters will give more useful advice and correct anything wrong I may have said

[dejet]

You either left out what you cast spells in or you cast spells in your idle gear.

If the second is correct then, BAD! BAD BAD NO!

Full enmity+ for blind / dispel / hate spells, full haste for shadows, idle in damage-% > HP > evasion > parrying > anything but idling in enmity gear. It sounds silly to advocate idling in parrying+ if you don't have any of the above before it, but really think about it. Maybe your parry % chance increases by 0.5% that's 0.5% more of something than the nothing that idling in enmity+ is doing for you.

dont just say full enmity. you need to have a middle line you can't just throw on +30 enmity and drop your hp to 1200. or have so much more enmity then your co tank.

edit for the neck: if your LS can get you one (depends if you do eija im working on it myself now) get a Ritter Gorget best item ever. 25 hp enmity+3 and eva +5(this wont do anything your eva is slow low vs anything you wont see any change at all but the HP is what is nice)

[BerenTebogo]

dont just say full enmity. you need to have a middle line you can just throw on +30 enmity and drop your hp to 1200. or have so much more enmity then your co tank.

edit for the neck: if your LS can get you one (depends if you do eija im working on it myself now) get a Ritter Gorget best item ever. 25 hp enmity+3 and eva +5(this wont do anything your eva is slow low vs anything you wont see any change at all but the HP is what is nice)

You're right. I suppose given the confusion right off the bat with the gear I should explain myself a bit more, lol.

But yeah, even if you do drop your hp during spell and then put it back on after, provided you're not solo tanking something you've never tanked before, just toss a C3 on yourself for even more hate!!!111

Anyways - just don't idle in enmity+, it's stupid.

Edit: with a full stoneskin + phalanx up I am drawing a complete and total blank at why you would need 1600 HP on RDM as tank? What, may I ask, are you tanking that is going to hit you for 2000 damage 'while you're casting'? Artificially boosting your HP above 1400 at the expense of DEF food, enmity food, or better gear choices to idle in is just downright silly imo.

Edit #2 - Genbu's shield for all things not JoL. -10% phys > 4 enmity

[dejet]

You're right. I suppose given the confusion right off the bat with the gear I should explain myself a bit more, lol.

But yeah, even if you do drop your hp during spell and then put it back on after, provided you're not solo tanking something you've never tanked before, just toss a C3 on yourself for even more hate!!!111

Anyways - just don't idle in enmity+, it's stupid.

Edit: with a full stoneskin + phalanx up I am drawing a complete and total blank at why you would need 1600 HP on RDM as tank? What, may I ask, are you tanking that is going to hit you for 2000 damage 'while you're casting'? Artificially boosting your HP above 1400 at the expense of DEF food, enmity food, or better gear choices to idle in is just downright silly imo.

its mainly from sky gods >.> byakko trip with shadows down...
suzy trip attack move for 1200 dmg one shot me once when a bad combo of a aga that got buy(blm screwed up stun order..) maybe its just me but i like the extra hp because idk if i can always trust everyone to do their job. should i need it? no. i just use it to be safe.

edit: 1400 hp is all you need really but i guess the hp i use that is extra in my set could be equal to say your added +parry skill move. to each his own i guess right?

edit2: idk how i missed that point. I find that +15 enmity is all i need. i find the extra hp is worth the lose in say 2 enmity because you dont need that much unless your co tank is a pld and even then have the pld drop off the enmity you dont need+50 enmity

[Greenjade]

It's a miss title on the idle set. xP My actual idle set is vermy and w.legs. Since I don't have Relic hat yet.

HP wise, I'm not sure I haven't checked and not in game atm. But I plan on popping a Carbonara so that should boost my HP up.

[dejet]

It's a miss title on the idle set. xP My actual idle set is vermy and w.legs. Since I don't have Relic hat yet.

HP wise, I'm not sure I haven't checked and not in game atm. But I plan on popping a Carbonara so that should boost my HP up.

ya that will bring you in almsot any set(out side -hp lol) to around 1400-1500 without any +hp gear really

edit: ya i have to side with the genbus move. the 4 enmity really wont do anything 15-20 enmity is all you need.

[BerenTebogo]

I think your goal is counterproductive to your tanking overall though.

Assuming you eat max HP+ food the only DEF you have is your P4 or 5, your gear DEF, SS, phalanx, and whatever -% damage you have on you. Assume then that you get hit for about 210 from most things after phalanx and without stoneskin.

Double attack with HP food = SS gone + spell interrupted + ow shit fuck

Double attack with taco = high probability that SS will remain intact (depending on your swap) + spell gets off + recast SS with fresh shadows

I get the not relying on others 100% but in terms of effectively maintaining your enmity level, mitigating damage taken, and increasing your overall survivability on all things not magic oriented (suzaku eat HP, w/e) you're going to be better off eating a taco.

Edit: Vermy + wlegs + random enmity thrown in still fails btw - get some darksteel gear, nq or hq, cheviot cape, and some goliard pants. Absolutely no reason you should need vermy while tanking on RDM outside of solo or duo. Blind is like 8mp? Dispel is 30 max? Barspell is low as hell. Focus more on your defensive angle and less on the "well this is what I'd normally use for xxx" angle.

[dejet]

I think your goal is counterproductive to your tanking overall though.

Assuming you eat max HP+ food the only DEF you have is your P4 or 5, your gear DEF, SS, phalanx, and whatever -% damage you have on you. Assume then that you get hit for about 210 from most things after phalanx and without stoneskin.

Double attack with HP food = SS gone + spell interrupted + ow shit fuck

Double attack with taco = high probability that SS will remain intact (depending on your swap) + spell gets off + recast SS with fresh shadows

I get the not relying on others 100% but in terms of effectively maintaining your enmity level, mitigating damage taken, and increasing your overall survivability on all things not magic oriented (suzaku eat HP, w/e) you're going to be better off eating a taco.

Edit: Vermy + wlegs + random enmity thrown in still fails btw - get some darksteel gear, nq or hq, cheviot cape, and some goliard pants. Absolutely no reason you should need vermy while tanking on RDM outside of solo or duo. Blind is like 8mp? Dispel is 30 max? Barspell is low as hell. Focus more on your defensive angle and less on the "well this is what I'd normally use for xxx" angle.

i see what your saying here. maybe ill give it a try ill prob tank my sky gods later this week and ill see if i feel ok with the 1450hp build i will have.

you cant take that back off or you lose 38hp and 5 enmity. now your telling her to drop off 9 enmity... thats starting to be a big drop lol id stick with that back tbh. maybe macro it out on a "oh shit" macro.

if i counted right she has +25 enmity i think
4+4+3+2+4+5+2

she could lose up to a max of 10 id say >.< but then do you just cast in that -% back? or macro in the 80hp back.
rdm is such an odd tank lol. can mix and match so much shit.

[BerenTebogo]

Enmity matters SO little beyond the first 5 minutes of any fight, and that's if your slow. Once you start to approach the hate cap it is incredibly easy to maintain it as long as you are continually casting spells.

With the horribly low recast timers of blind, dispel, and barspells there is literally no reason you should ever not be casting hate generating spells aside from buffing yourself, curing yourself, or casting shadows.

Seriously, with haste spell and ballad you could probably maintain hate at the cap naked, if not with only some fast cast pieces on. Cerb mantle is fine for spells - lost the HB mantle. Even NQ cheviot is doing more for you overall. And again, genbu shield every time all the time (except for JoL)

Edit: The enmity argument is from the perspective of PLD, NIN, and RDM tanking. You really don't need to stack as much as you think you do. Cerb mantle / eris earrings / mermaid ring / ritter gorget / warwolf belt is really all the enmity you should need for any spell. And contrary to my mantra on PLD (where I have my shield to save my ass) that set allows you to not blink while getting the most enmity for your buck + maintaining a good defensive set.

Time for class - can talk all we want, until you test shit for yourself probably won't change anything. You'll love the difference though.

[dejet]

Enmity matters SO little beyond the first 5 minutes of any fight, and that's if your slow. Once you start to approach the hate cap it is incredibly easy to maintain it as long as you are continually casting spells.

With the horribly low recast timers of blind, dispel, and barspells there is literally no reason you should ever not be casting hate generating spells aside from buffing yourself, curing yourself, or casting shadows.

Seriously, with haste spell and ballad you could probably maintain hate at the cap naked, if not with only some fast cast pieces on. Cerb mantle is fine for spells - lost the HB mantle. Even NQ cheviot is doing more for you overall. And again, genbu shield every time all the time (except for JoL)

would you mind posting your gear set? just want look it over maybe make some changes to mine. or at the least test it out. see how i like it and if i might keep the changes

edit for OP: do you have any enmity merits? if ya do prob could drop off a hell of a lot more enmity gear and do what he is saying.

[Greenjade]

Yea I have chev cape. I still need to get dark steel harness but its rarely in stock. I'm waiting for the inventory space though mostly. With just my tanking set and a few random pieces of gear I have to carry because my safe and locker is packed I have next to no room. ><

[dejet]

Yea I have chev cape. I still need to get dark steel harness but its rarely in stock. I'm waiting for the inventory space though mostly. With just my tanking set and a few random pieces of gear I have to carry because my safe and locker is packed I have next to no room. ><

ya i know what you mean about tht darksteel stuff.. its hard to find. on my server its dead ass slow >.> forget the HQ stuff lol

[Greenjade]

Tanking wise, I'm not fully interested in tanking Sky gods. Those guys are brutal except Genbu. Right now I've only tanked JoL and will be tanking him again soon. Ultima is next on my tanking list so just focusing on things for those two. Once I've gotten better at it, I'd like to tank more things.

[rog]

enmity doens't matter at all, after the first 2 minutes or so (which is all it takes to cap enmity for rdm, even without any +enmity). you should be idling (or even casting, since it doesn't really make any difference in the end) in things like terra's, umbra cape, etc. i've seriously tanked before in a total of -1 enmity, and never lost hate once (over an ~1 hour fight), enmity matters that little.

as far as hp goes, i can't imagine why you'd ever need more than 1200~1300 or so, since stoneskin adds another 350~410 to that anyway. how many plds/nins try to use 1700+ hp? i don't think i've ever seen one that does...

[Shinryuu]

Between (near) capped -PDT and 1300 HP you're not going to get oneshotted by anything in this game. And that's with Stoneskin and shadows down for some reason.

[Ahlah]

High breath mantle has very little use in RDM tanking. Ideally you should idle in Cheviot cape, switch in Cerb mantle for enmity/fire resist and Resentment cape for magic damage reduction in zones where latent effect is active (including limbus).

Do you have capped stoneskin with your current setup? Morrigan's slops and pigaches provide big chunk of MND. Prism cape also adds MND, another reason not to use high breath mantle. Can drop switf belt/speed belt too if you need extra MND, shouldn't have to worry too much about recast as long as you are casting stoneskin in af1 hat and af2 body.

[Greenjade]

Yea I hit Stoneskin cap with no problem with my current set up. I don't do Salvage or Nyzul that much so I don't have access to those things yet.