Teen punks murder American hero's dog

[Norelco]

Fixed for more accuracy.

He fought for guartz's right to do that.

[Penthesilea]

I missed your reply, who am I putting at risk?

The criminal?

He put his own life at risk when he decided to BREAK THE LAW, and enter my home, that's not my problem, that's on him.

I'm talking about things like shooting someone from behind. Another forum I visit, a guy caught someone stealing his motorcycle off of the back of his truck. He grabbed a baseball bat, hit him from behind knocking the guy down. Then proceeded to hit him in the face with the bat some more to make sure he was down.

If someone broke into my house, I'll surely have my gun in hand, but I'll let them know that I'm armed and they'd best leave.

When we're talking about something like physical property, shooting someone or killing someone over it is absurd. Taking a life should be only necessary when you're protecting life in the first place, not metal, wood, plastic.

[Furionstormrage]

I'm talking about things like shooting someone from behind. Another forum I visit, a guy caught someone stealing his motorcycle off of the back of his truck. He grabbed a baseball bat, hit him from behind knocking the guy down. Then proceeded to hit him in the face with the bat some more to make sure he was down.

If someone broke into my house, I'll surely have my gun in hand, but I'll let them know that I'm armed and they'd best leave.

When we're talking about something like physical property, shooting someone or killing someone over it is absurd. Taking a life should be only necessary when you're protecting life in the first place, not metal, wood, plastic.

In an ideal situation yes, I agree.

However we don't live in an ideal world, and I would much rather make absolutely sure that my family was safe (because how do I know if someone is breaking in to steal my coffee machine, or rape my wife?), it's my responsibility and I doubt that your common criminal is going to answer questions as to his intent.

Obviously, waving a gun at some people is enough to scare them away, but when it's not, I don't see why anyone should even THINK of putting themselves at risk if they can very easily end the situation.

Regarding protecting property, I can't say that in a situation like that, that I wouldn't also be scared for my life. Someone breaks in, steals my TV, I catch him, how am I supposed to know if:

A: He is armed
B: He is capable of killing me with or without any weapons
C: He is inclined to take a life, versus going to prison

I'm not going to take that chance, and I don't feel that I should be punished for it. I didn't break into someone's house. I was minding my business, watching reruns of "BJ & The Bear".

[Brill Weave]

Well as an impartial observer to both your sides, you both make damn good points. But I'm leaning towards Furion's side of the argument. If someone breaks into my house and I have the means to scare them off, I would use it without thinking twice. There's just no way to gauge someone's intent. At three in the morning if a burglar breaks into my house I'm not going to be worried about him taking my tv, I'm going to be worried about my wife and my family.

But there is definitely a point where it becomes excessive. Like the circumstance Pent threw up there. The guy is clearly down and out, there's no point in continuing the beatdown.

[tommygunnz]

Well as an impartial observer to both your sides, you both make damn good points. But I'm leaning towards Furion's side of the argument. If someone breaks into my house and I have the means to scare them off, I would use it without thinking twice. There's just no way to gauge someone's intent. At three in the morning if a burglar breaks into my house I'm not going to be worried about him taking my tv, I'm going to be worried about my wife and my family.

But there is definitely a point where it becomes excessive. Like the circumstance Pent threw up there. The guy is clearly down and out, there's no point in continuing the beatdown.

Yes but alot of people cannot always control their adrenaline. Never know the backstory to these things either. Maybe his house has been robbed 2-3 times that year, maybe punks go around breaking in to everyone's shit in his neighborhood and when he finally got one down his adrenaline took over into a form of vigilante justice and he couldn't control his rage.

It's not exactly right what the guy did, but I'm still in his corner and if he were my buddy I'd give him a high five.

[Correction]

If someone broke into my house, I'll surely have my gun in hand, but I'll let them know that I'm armed and they'd best leave.

When we're talking about something like physical property, shooting someone or killing someone over it is absurd. Taking a life should be only necessary when you're protecting life in the first place, not metal, wood, plastic.

Have you even been in a real fight? Getting in the first, decisive hit is basically the only chance most untrained people will have to get through a fight without serious personal injury. Saying shit like 'Hey guy I'm armed you better listen to me you won't get more than two or three warnings at most!' is a lovely way to throw away that chance.

[Penthesilea]

Have you even been in a real fight? Getting in the first, decisive hit is basically the only chance most untrained people will have to get through a fight without serious personal injury. Saying shit like 'Hey guy I'm armed you better listen to me you won't get more than two or three warnings at most!' is a lovely way to throw away that chance.

No, I don't put myself into positions where I'd have to fight someone else. I have a gun in my house, I lock my doors/windows, and I'm not going to go shooting the first shadow of a person I see at night that's rummaging in my house.

My first course of action would be to find my gun, family, and then call the police.

This guy was excessive in his pursuit and intentions of wanting to shoot them. The dog was dead, he was just gunning for them at that point, not trying to protect the dog's life.

[Furionstormrage]

No, I don't put myself into positions where I'd have to fight someone else. I have a gun in my house, I lock my doors/windows, and I'm not going to go shooting the first shadow of a person I see at night that's rummaging in my house.

My first course of action would be to find my gun, family, and then call the police.

This guy was excessive in his pursuit and intentions of wanting to shoot them. The dog was dead, he was just gunning for them at that point, not trying to protect the dog's life.

Your first 2 paragraphs are the point I was trying to make. I'm not going to start blasting away at shadows, but I'm damn sure not going to sit there and try to reason with someone who invaded my home.

I'll give him a warning, which would be pointing a gun at him, but if he makes any move other than one of surrender, he's getting shot. The potential harm he could do to me and my wife is my one and only concern, and I'm not going to put it to chance that he's not going for his own gun or jumping at me to disarm me.

If the legal system decides to imprison me for acting like this, at least I can go to bed at night (next to bubba) knowing that I gave the guy no chance to kill me, kill my wife, rape my wife, etc.

As for your last paragraph, I applaud the guy for refusing to put up with shit. We need more people in this country that won't deal with people that break the law for their own enjoyment. If everyone acted like him, I'd think your average kid would think twice before killing someones dog or stealing someones stuff.

[Correction]

This guy was excessive in his pursuit and intentions of wanting to shoot them. The dog was dead, he was just gunning for them at that point, not trying to protect the dog's life.

So what? You underestimate how much people can love their dogs. It's a fucking family member dead at your feet.

[MrW]

If someone breaks into MY DOMAIN to steal my iron or with the intent to rape my daughter, and I have a gun, you are getting shot in the head. How am I supposed to know if he/she is unarmed? I'd rather be the guy that gets bashed for shooting an unarmed criminal than being the dumbass that didn't shoot and his entire family getting violated.

[Penthesilea]

If someone breaks into MY DOMAIN to steal my iron or with the intent to rape my daughter, and I have a gun, you are getting shot in the head. How am I supposed to know if he/she is unarmed? I'd rather be the guy that gets bashed for shooting an unarmed criminal than being the dumbass that didn't shoot and his entire family getting violated.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't defend your stuff when it's applicable, but in this circumstance he put other people at risk outside of those guys and himself by chasing them in his truck.

And if a dog was as much of a family member and loved like he says he shouldn't have kept it outside at night.

[Azkarin2]

And if a dog was as much of a family member and loved like he says he shouldn't have kept it outside at night.

What was he supposed to do? Spoon with it at night? Some animals want to be outside and its not a bad thing to let them.

[Penthesilea]

What was he supposed to do? Spoon with it at night? Some animals want to be outside and its not a bad thing to let them.

I dunno, but I know I want to shoot the neighbors dog who bays all night long because they don't keep him in the house. I bet they wouldn't chase me down and want to shoot me.

[Azkarin2]

Ok, that's kinda irrelevant to the point you were making. Leaving an animal outside has no reflection on the relationship between pet/owner when the animal is one that can survive/thrive outside. If a child likes to camp out in the summer, does the father not love the son if he lets him sleep in the back yard?

[Furionstormrage]

Just because someone views a dog to be not as important as a human, does not mean that everyone else shares that opinion.

To this guy, that dog was extremely important, it represented his friends that died serving the country that he also served, so to him I'm sure the dog meant a great deal.

It's easy to armchair quarterback the situation, or to say "it was just a dog", but that's not the case in his mind and we shouldn't be so arrogant as to say that we can deem what is important enough to defend, or even enact revenge or justice towards.

[guartz]

The fact that you continue to post everything in complete black and white is kind of frightening. You seem to have absolutely no shades of grey. But then I sit back and just wonder how much of your schtick is just an act to piss people off here.

If you look at say, a man who kills a store cleric while robbing him and then a man who dons a uniform who kills enemy soldiers while conquering them, what differences do you see?

It's a trick question of course, the differences are superficial.

[Correction]

If you look at say, a man who kills a store cleric while robbing him and then a man who dons a uniform who kills enemy soldiers while conquering them, what differences do you see?

It's a trick question of course, the differences are superficial.

They aren't superficial if the the force of law both international and domestic can draw a line between the two. Stop justifying your fucking stupid remark.

[guartz]

That answers nothing. Force of law? What line and between what, exactly?

[Correction]

That answers nothing. Force of law? What line and between what, exactly?

Between acting on orders from your commander to kill an enemy and killing a store clerk for cash? I really have to spell them out? It's almost as if you think the taking of any human life constitutes murder.

If you seriously think the differences are purely superficial then you are beyond all hope.

[guartz]

So you are suggesting so long as the person who is robbing the store is taking orders from a superior, he shouldn't be classified as a murderer? I don't understand.