ANNM Information and Discussion

[ringthree]

Lol at bringing anything Genome into this.

Now I will concede that my damage estimation may be off on this. Here is how I calculate the hits/second (not including Kick attacks):

(120/(300+113))*(100/(100-Haste))*((100+DA)/100)*(Acc%/100)*1.5

This will give fist hits per second for Faith. At 0 Haste, 0 DA, and 95% Acc, Faiths will hit .4140 times per second, while Destroyers will hit .3276 times per second. So about 26% more hits. Actually dicking around a bit, no matter what value of Acc/Haste/DA I plug in, Faiths will always attack ~26% more than Destroyers.

Let's assume that you have pDIF 1 (1.02 for Destroyers using Black Tathlum under best circumstances), and capped fSTR for both (this will favor Destroyers as they are 1 weapon rank higher), we will also do this at 80% hitrate for Faith (82% for Destroyers using Black Tathlum)

Destroyers: 1000 Attack Rounds @ 82%Acc = 1640 punches, 123 kicks.
[1394*63*1.02] + [246*63*2.02] = 120,884.4
[112*43*1.02] + [11*43*2.02] = 5,867.78
TOTAL = 126,752.18 dmg

Faith Baghnakhs: 843 Attack Rounds @ 80%Acc = 2022 punches, 101 kicks.
[1840*53*1] + [182*53*2] = 116,812
[92*43*1] + [9*43*2] = 4,730
TOTAL = 121,542 dmg

Considering ~20 hits to WS and 600dmg Asuran on average, the total for Faith's becomes 133,002 dmg, or ~4.9% better than Destroyers. This is with everything being in Destroyers favor, too. As cute as +Crit is, dont be fooled by it. Crit increases damage by a lot for a relatively small amount of hits, while increasing STR and base damage increase the bigger portion of your damage by a smaller percent, but usually to larger effect.

Brb, working on comparative numbers for 336 delay Manoples (since we know it is at least this low).

Am I mistaken or did you use the same damage for Asuran for both Faith and Destroyers?

Also, did you operate under the assumption that you would always use a WS at 100TP (or 20 hits)?

[Deadgye]

Weapon comparisons only work on paper if example A does more DoT, gains tp faster, and does more damage on WS than example B.

If it's not a clean sweep, there's no way to be sure. Well.. there are some instances where the margin of difference is big enough in one or two cases to completely trump the difference in the other cases, but if you're comparing something you should be and not something like hornetneedle vs blau dolch then you're not really going to run into those instances.

[Ruuz]

You are right, I should have taken the Asuran WS dmg difference into account (~64 less per WS on average?) and yes, I assume WS at 100%TP. If you take into consideration the WS dmg difference:

Destroyers: 82*665 = 54,530 (181,282.18 total)
Faith: 101.1*600 = 60,660 (182,202 total)
Aug Manoples: 84.85*675 = 57,273.75 (185,708.07 total)

Now I may have picked bad numbers to represent the averages. If someone has anything better to model this please let me know. I am just trying to show with numbers that Faith's are at least better than Destroyers under favorble conditions for Destroyers (low pDIF, good ammo slot, capped pDIF). Most monks already feel that Faiths are far better than Destroyers, just trying to provide at least some math to back that up.

Also, I am not sure I understand the whole "Faith's for Zergs only" thing. Really, the best weapon to use during Hundred Fists is your best weapon, period. Prove me wrong here, but Hundred Fists is just capped Haste for 30 seconds. I guess most zergs also constitute good food and soul voiced minuets? So really what you are saying is when Acc, pDIF, and Haste are high, Faiths are better knuckles than Destroyers. Now please tell me why they are not as good as Destroyers when pDIF, Acc, and Haste are low?

If pDIF were really low, I can see the +Crit mattering, but Faith will always attack 26% more than Destroyers when Acc and Haste are the same (leading to the same approximate damage increase).

[Malacite]

It's because you're going to be getting in even more attacks than you would normally, thus more DoT & WS. That said, damage per fist does still matter to an extent.

[ringthree]

You are right, I should have taken the Asuran WS dmg difference into account (~64 less per WS on average?) and yes, I assume WS at 100%TP. If you take into consideration the WS dmg difference:

Destroyers: 82*665 = 54,530 (181,282.18 total)
Faith: 101.1*600 = 60,660 (182,202 total)
Aug Manoples: 84.85*675 = 57,273.75 (185,708.07 total)

Now I may have picked bad numbers to represent the averages. If someone has anything better to model this please let me know. I am just trying to show with numbers that Faith's are at least better than Destroyers under favorble conditions for Destroyers (low pDIF, good ammo slot, capped pDIF). Most monks already feel that Faiths are far better than Destroyers, just trying to provide at least some math to back that up.

Also, I am not sure I understand the whole "Faith's for Zergs only" thing. Really, the best weapon to use during Hundred Fists is your best weapon, period. Prove me wrong here, but Hundred Fists is just capped Haste for 30 seconds. I guess most zergs also constitute good food and soul voiced minuets? So really what you are saying is when Acc, pDIF, and Haste are high, Faiths are better knuckles than Destroyers. Now please tell me why they are not as good as Destroyers when pDIF, Acc, and Haste are low?

If pDIF were really low, I can see the +Crit mattering, but Faith will always attack 26% more than Destroyers when Acc and Haste are the same (leading to the same approximate damage increase).

How did you figure the difference between the damage on Faith and Destroyers on WS?

Did you calculate lost TP from the extra attacks that put you over 100TP which would naturally occur more often with Faith than Destroyers?

I might be missing this because your numbers are not labeled, but did you factor in the critical hit bonus on Destroyers?

I know you are saying that you think that you are providing Destroyers with a favorable situation, but so far your assumptions (equal WS damage [and I still think that the difference you list may be a bit generous], exact use of WS at 100TP, not including crits?) may in fact bias your calculations toward Faith.

By you math, after your adjustments, Faith is ahead by ~1% before some of the assumptions you have made are questioned.

Once the actual delay of the Manoples are determined we can get a better idea of where they land. There are still conflicting reports, and little evidence either way. But hope springs eternal!

[Ruuz]

How did you figure the difference between the damage on Faith and Destroyers on WS?

Did you calculate lost TP from the extra attacks that put you over 100TP which would naturally occur more often with Faith than Destroyers?

I might be missing this because your numbers are not labeled, but did you factor in the critical hit bonus on Destroyers?

I know you are saying that you think that you are providing Destroyers with a favorable situation, but so far your assumptions (equal WS damage [and I still think that the difference you list may be a bit generous], exact use of WS at 100TP, not including crits?) may in fact bias your calculations toward Faith.

By you math, after your adjustments, Faith is ahead by ~1% before some of the assumptions you have made are questioned.

Once the actual delay of the Manoples are determined we can get a better idea of where they land. There are still conflicting reports, and little evidence either way. But hope springs eternal!

On WS frequency: Faiths actually achieve 100TP in 18 individual hits. Destroyers and Manoples (4.8 or 4.9) take 21 hits. Of course, I should also have taken kick attacks into account as well as overlap from DA (and tried to do it statistically so as everything is correct at least on average), but I am lazy and dont really care enough, so I just took Faith up to 20 and Destroyers down to 20 (again just to favor Destroyers).

On WS damage: I did this really lazily just by taking 80% of the base damage increase over 8 hits. If you want to calculate average Asuran damage for each and post it, be my guest.

On favorability towards Destroyers: Seriously, the only way I could have made things more favorable is by halving pDIF or making it really low (I mentioned Destroyers would do well then), but at that point, why are you even going as MNK? I most definitely took the Crit rate improvement on Destroyers into account. I used 9% crit base for Faiths and Manos and 15% for Destroyers. The % increase from Destroyers would be better from 5% base, but whatever. I think Crit +4 is standard MNK merits.

[Zilong]

gonna start doing eldieme, is there any gimmick to that one?

[jimbobsonofgod]

yeah the gimmick is .

Don't bring taru >.<

[BerenTebogo]

Any of these confirmed to be duo / trioable yet?

[ringthree]

Any of these confirmed to be duo / trioable yet?

I can't think of one. It's more the crowd control issue than anything else. Even if you supertanked them you would still have a problem with the time limit.

Maybe a couple of BLM?

[Gwynplaine]

gonna start doing eldieme, is there any gimmick to that one?

The main NM wanders the corridors but won't aggro if no one is in it's initial path after spawning. Have everyone stand behind the torch stand between it and the wall while the enemies are spawned. The main NM will then just harmlessly wander around while you kill the ghosts.

[donifana]

Greetings!
Speak on sites of news well earn.
On reviews of the new goods, on games different. Easier speaking on interests of people.
Therefore tell to me please who in it understands, from what to begin in this area.
Where it is possible to read through any instruction. How many money to enclose in the industry?

[SaviorSelf]

Greetings!
Speak on sites of news well earn.
On reviews of the new goods, on games different. Easier speaking on interests of people.
Therefore tell to me please who in it understands, from what to begin in this area.
Where it is possible to read through any instruction. How many money to enclose in the industry?

wut

[Metta]

Greetings!
Speak on sites of news well earn.
On reviews of the new goods, on games different. Easier speaking on interests of people.
Therefore tell to me please who in it understands, from what to begin in this area.
Where it is possible to read through any instruction. How many money to enclose in the industry?

http://science.kukuchew.com/wp-conte...r_of_books.jpg

[Not Kuno]

Took out the sig cause it was probably a RMT/virus site or w/e.

[Spira]

and here i thought there was new info =\

[Zilong]

Why not just ban the motherfucker?