SMN Update Testing

[Shin Volcano]

What on earth are SMNs soloing these days?

[Indalecia]

Alot of shit, but I dont need -2 perp to do it.

[Acturus]

I don't think it's the perp-2 is the right choice for everyone, but I don't understand how anyone can say perp-2 should not be taken under any circumstances.

[...]

(some comments were not entirely serious, don't quote me as such)

I'm a little put off by the thought that people like Dak and myself should preface everything we post with "YOUR RESULTS MAY VARY". I mean, I know shit is situational, that's FFXI rule #1.

Of course there are circumstances where -2 Perp on this body is useful for the person placing it there. It's just that most of those circumstances come down to either saving gil or not spending time, and that tends to corrolate to laziness or an unwillingness to put in the effort to make the most out of your job class. YOUR RESULTS MAY VARY.

But given everything that's out there, -2 perp cost shouldn't be treated as this omgwtfbbq augmentation, because it isn't.

I'm getting my coat to be a macro piece. That's where it does -me- the most good, and I'm slapping MAB/M.Acc and Phys. Accuracy on it. That way, it wil fill the niche that I need it to fill.

YOUR RESULTS MAY VARY.

sheesh

[Shin Volcano]

up until now your whole attitude is saying that we cant do what we want. Your are beating down anyone who thinks that perpetuation -2 is valuable on the new armor piece.

You are nothing even close to an open minded summoner, and you keep trolling people with your really annoying attitude saying that they are wrong, and your idea is right.


and in regards to Ashokan np!

You are wrong, Prep -2 is Valuable, but not on a peice when there is ALREADY one with it. try to use common logic, i could say you are downright stupid for choosing it. but im not turning into you, you are nothing even close to a logical SMN on how to get a better use out of it, If you think am i just "You don't agree with me so you are wrong" Statment try and read them again, I am NOT that type of person, dispite how ruthless my posts are, i try to find the best possible ways to use jobs that i like, and for SMN -prep 2 has very little outcome vs the other options, end of the story= IDFC what you pick, i explained (acturs did it better tho) WHY prep -2 on that body wasnt NEEDED when you have MAB/MACC ATT/ACC DBL Attack/critcal to choose from. you want to choose prep-2? GOOD for you, Good luck with that.

But don't sit here and try this "you're the bad guy" routine to make your self look cooler. you're whole attitude isn't a saint either.

[Ultimagi]

Your are beating down anyone who thinks that perpetuation -2 is valuable on the new armor piece.

This is why you're wrong. It's not valuable. It's useful, but not valuable. What's valuable is using this opportunity to gain stats you can't get any other way.

[nitsuj]

Ok no flaming intended.

I thought about this over lunch, and my original desire to get "Perp -2" and "macc/mab" is as follows:

1) Idle in RR to get less MP over time to allow my avatar to gain TP for tier 2 merit pacts.

2) macro it in on all magic-based Blood Pact Rages (mostly just for Tier II) to compliment MAB merits and future Nirvana.

Seems logical, yes?

What seems more logical (To me, your results may vary) is the reasons against the other augments (but I'm looking for your opinions).

If I get Phys Acc:

1) Wasting my valuable piece because my SMN magic is way above cap, as well as wearing it to get TP would make me lose Avatar Enmity +5 and 1 mp/tick refresh from YY Robe.

2) I'm not going to macro it in on BP Rage because I already macro in Relic Body for the crit hit chance.

So for the people who are anti perp -2 (which I understand it's not OMG because of P. Robe, but P. Robe is rarely crafted and super expensive where this is a free piece. It's not OMGLOLBBQamazing but for a free piece, it deserves one of those adjectives).

Can someone give me a flame/drama free rational of why you choose something different on your SMN piece?

[Shin Volcano]

I stopped reading after "You are wrong"

Good. you just proved you have no sense of resoning, and have no clue how to really improve your SMN. Thank you for proving my point.

[nitsuj]

Guys knock it off with the "OMG I'm so right shit. You could be the best Summoner in the world but if you treat people like shit and refuse to look at other people's perspective on things people won't want to be around you and ALL you'll have to do is solo on your Summoner.

Come on, let's keep it civil.

[Ultimagi]

1) Wasting my valuable piece because my SMN magic is way above cap, as well as wearing it to get TP would make me lose Avatar Enmity +5 and 1 mp/tick refresh from YY Robe.

You're comparing Royal Redingote with Avatar Accuracy +15 to Avatar Perpetuation Cost -2, not Yinyang Robe. This seems like a counterargument.

[Shin Volcano]

Ok no flaming intended.

I thought about this over lunch, and my original desire to get "Perp -2" and "macc/mab" is as follows:

1) Idle in RR to get less MP over time to allow my avatar to gain TP for tier 2 merit pacts.

2) macro it in on all magic-based Blood Pact Rages (mostly just for Tier II) to compliment MAB merits and future Nirvana.

Seems logical, yes?

What seems more logical (To me, your results may vary) is the reasons against the other augments (but I'm looking for your opinions).

If I get Phys Acc:

1) Wasting my valuable piece because my SMN magic is way above cap, as well as wearing it to get TP would make me lose Avatar Enmity +5 and 1 mp/tick refresh from YY Robe.

2) I'm not going to macro it in on BP Rage because I already macro in Relic Body for the crit hit chance.

So for the people who are anti perp -2 (which I understand it's not OMG because of P. Robe, but P. Robe is rarely crafted and super expensive where this is a free piece. It's not OMGLOLBBQamazing but for a free piece, it deserves one of those adjectives).

Can someone give me a flame/drama free rational of why you choose something different on your SMN piece?

Well.....It's been beat into the bush at this point...but i'll try it again...

All in all all that will get you is -1 prep cost it is a matter of choosing somthing you CANNOT get on anything else. there is NOTHING "beside mythic" that will give you Avatar MAB, unless SMNS are "Predator claws onry!" type SMN it can and will help, you seem like an Exprianced SMN, so you should know this. simple fact is, you only get one of these body options, a MAB/MAC body +attack for example would be the ultimate BP peice.

Even DBL attack or critcal hit 2% will have better increasing returns then -2 prep. because in the end you will kill whatever you are fighting FASTER to not need -1 prep cost, and even then....if it is the correct day AF2 body has -3 Prep cost. it's just the diffrence between those 3 bodies is very minimal at best, not to choose other options you can't get anywhere else.

[nitsuj]

Well.....It's been beat into the bush at this point...but i'll try it again...

All in all all that will get you is -1 prep cost it is a matter of choosing somthing you CANNOT get on anything else. there is NOTHING "beside mythic" that will give you Avatar MAB, unless SMNS are "Predator claws onry!" type SMN it can and will help, you seem like an Exprianced SMN, so you should know this. simple fact is, you only get one of these body options, a MAB/MAC body +attack for example would be the ultimate BP peice.

Even DBL attack or critcal hit 2% will have better increasing returns then -2 prep. because in the end you will kill whatever you are fighting FASTER to not need -1 prep cost, and even then....if it is the correct day AF2 body has -3 Prep cost. it's just the diffrence between those 3 bodies is very minimal at best, not to choose other options you can't get anywhere else.

Lede I didn't ask why you didn't like perp -2. I asked why you made the choices you did. I can't see the 2nd augment going in any of my macros personally, and I wanted to see how you guys saw it.

You're only "beating it into the bush" (which I don't think is the proper expression anyways) because you refuse to turn off your "rage meter" or something. I wasn't even talking directly about your perp -2 argument. I could care less about your bickering.

Reread my post if you want to give me the actual answer, please, otherwise can someone else fill me in?

[Ultimagi]

Let's stop saying -2 perpetuation cost. If you're not getting the -2 perpetuation cost, and aren't using Summoner's Doublet, you're wearing Yinyang Robe anyway. It's really only -1 perpetuation cost.

[Shin Volcano]

You dont promote discussion because you blatently just tell people they are wrong. Thanks for proving my point.

Since when, i didn't think SMNs would be so blind as to skip over every other better option avalible to them for a stat that is already on another peice, and even so, on another body that has -1 more then it on the correct day, try again.

we can do this all day if you want.

we sure can, and you still won't have a valid point.


in regards to nitsuj...

-2perpet and the +7macc/mab makes the most sense to me. The acc boost would only really help your auto attack dmg, because of how far over the cap you are in smn skill.

But Crtical hit rate, or DBL attack, or even +15 attack sure as hell will help him alot more. unless he never uses BPS.

I think you wont be dissapointed with what your gut is telling you. And once you get Nirvana the +7macc/mab will really help out.

Let's wait till he gets that and tries it out, then he could even go Att+15 and ACC +15 or dbl attack.

[nitsuj]

From what you have stated earlier I think your gut instinct is..

+7 MAB / +7 MACC and the -2 to perpetuation.


I think you should stick to this, especially if your getting Nirvana. If the question is about should I get the -2, then you need to look at your play style and figure that out for yourself. You could make Redingote be a BP macro piece for phsycial and magical pacts, but your giving up the etra -1 mp a tick.

You are also getting Nirvana, getting the -2 along with -4 from Nirvana would seriously rock. your looking at a -1 mp tic garuda/fenrir. I think anyone will /drool at that. Once sigil or sanction kicks in your free. Or conjurers ring? meh yellow hp hurts.

Yeah I think we're on the same page with my thought process. If there were a better option for the 2nd augment than Perp -2, I'd go for it. But I can't figure out what.

- I don't think it'll replace Doublet for phys pacts
- I don't think it'll replace YYR for idle (refresh + enmity on avatar)

But if someone who has been arguing against perp -2 could prove me wrong, I'm very interested in knowing. I'm always looking for ways to improve my Summoner.

Edit: Lede posted above me that Double Attack or Crit would be good. But how does that replace relic body?

[Shin Volcano]

Lede I didn't ask why you didn't like perp -2. I asked why you made the choices you did. I can't see the 2nd augment going in any of my macros personally, and I wanted to see how you guys saw it.

Because i have maxed prep down gear atm, Most of my pets range from costing 1-3 MP<and whatever i am fighting has died long before MP has became an issue,

If in any event MP does become an issue, i have elemental siphon and even my 2 hour if shit hits the fan.

You're only "beating it into the bush" (which I don't think is the proper expression anyways) because you refuse to turn off your "rage meter" or something. I wasn't even talking directly about your perp -2 argument. I could care less about your bickering.

Really? i didn't think i was that angry. and what are you talking about, i was not even attacking you.

[Shin Volcano]

Yeah I think we're on the same page with my thought process. If there were a better option for the 2nd augment than Perp -2, I'd go for it. But I can't figure out what.

- I don't think it'll replace Doublet for phys pacts
- I don't think it'll replace YYR for idle (refresh + enmity on avatar)

But if someone who has been arguing against perp -2 could prove me wrong, I'm very interested in knowing. I'm always looking for ways to improve my Summoner.

Edit: Lede posted above me that Double Attack or Crit would be good. But how does that replace relic body?

Well Depending on how potent DBL attack is, it could go a long way, IF dbl attack works for BPS for example. that may be a world of hurt opening up. i do agree the critical hit rate may not be needed since it's on AF2, it''s the same issue with the - 2 prep option, there are just better options since they already exsist on another peice.

[nitsuj]

Really? i didn't think i was that angry. and what are you talking about, i was not even attacking you.

I know. I meant your bickering with Darkrift. It's annoying to come here thinking someone has some valid SMN body piece info and it's just you guys arguing over who knows more about the SMN job :/

But please, I didn't see what you got on the body piece to go with MAB and why (I probably just missed it in the spam).

Granted you can get Perp -2 on other pieces, but it seems like you can get most of the other stuff on other pieces as well unless you go Acc or Attack on the body and just give up on the enmity +5 and refresh trait.

[Shin Volcano]

How about we just let bygones be bygones, and move on. We clearly both have different points of views, and clearly both think each other are wrong. I am ok with that, and very willing to just let it die.

Deal, i'm not an ass hole, so i won't try to be one.

[nitsuj]

Unless of course DA procs on BP's????? but what little testing that has been done im not sure if it works. I hope it does though ;_;.

I believe it does. I think someone tested it earlier? But I could be wrong..

For some reason I remember them saying the the return is tiny compared to the return on Crit Hit or even Attack + X.

That's why I'm using the 2nd slot for perp -2 (until I get P. Robe then I'll go redo the fight to get something different. What that will be... I don't know yet)

[Shin Volcano]

It's so damn hard to resist DBL attack...they could have at least gave 5% i always wanted Dbl attack on avatars but this may not be enough to matter.i wonder if anyone has a SS of Dbl attack procing on PC for example.