SMN Update Testing

[AoshiZ]

Since when, i didn't think SMNs would be so blind as to skip over every other better option avalible to them for a stat that is already on another peice, and even so, on another body that has -1 more then it on the correct day, try again.

I believe you are incorrect here.
Penance robe is -2 Perpetuation cost and -4 Bloodpact Delay.

However, through the course of gameplay for summoner there are 2 major distinctions with Penance Robe versus YinYang. (There is a point to this comparison)

From enmity testing by kaeko it is proven that the +/-emnity must be on during the time of action. The blood pact delay reduction must be on during the time of BP usage. Therefore, there are the two following states in question:
1. What you wear while Avatar is out during idle melee.
2. What you wear upon Blood Pact Usage.

Nitsuj is correct. Penance robe cannot offer avatar accuracy during idle avatar melee.
Furthermore, because you can swap gear at the time of BP the -4 bloodpact delay on the penance robe is almost useless if you have a YingYang Robe which can be swapped in temporarily for enmity and greater bloodpact reduction. If you selected other things for the ACP body, then you will be unable to utilize the item during Idle avatar melee and must be forced to stick with Penance Robe. Unless of course, you don't mind taking the -2 perpetuation cost hit while idle.

Penance robe cannot compete with -2 Perpetuation with 15 ACC as a TP body for avatars. (Which is definitely viable for some summoners trying to gain TP for the newly buffed avatar merit abilities)

[umisame]

your level dosn't matter, since it's a wide area to run around, that dosn't give you any points, you just counterd your self saying you used carby with a "fenrir > all" statment, and i can already tell you how it will go, you will run out of mp.

Just soloed Aquarius with Diabolos only, ill upload pics now. Fast fight.
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/505...0415225106.jpg

More pics:
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/777...0415224052.jpg
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/517...0415224426.jpg
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/724...0415224842.jpg
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/286...0415225010.jpg

[nitsuj]

-2 Perpetuation with 15 ACC as a TP body for avatars. (Which is definitely viable for some summoners trying to gain TP for the newly buffed avatar merit abilities)

But then you miss out on the MAB for those same pacts :/

Decisions Decisions...

[Shin Volcano]

Just soloed Aquarius with Diabolos only, ill upload pics now. Fast fight.

Yes, with elemental Siphon now you proably can, the hell i went thru was before that was added.

[Shin Volcano]

But then you miss out on the MAB for those same pacts :/

Decisions Decisions...

See lol, starting to see why i don't recommend -2 prep on that :/ to many other options..



Quote:
Originally Posted by AoshiZ
I believe you are incorrect here.
Penance robe is -2 Perpetuation cost and -4 Bloodpact Delay.

However, through the course of gameplay for summoner there are 2 major distinctions with Penance Robe versus YinYang. (There is a point to this comparison)

From enmity testing by kaeko it is proven that the +/-emnity must be on during the time of action. The blood pact delay reduction must be on during the time of BP usage. Therefore, there are the two following states in question:
1. What you wear while Avatar is out during idle melee.
2. What you wear upon Blood Pact Usage.

Nitsuj is correct. Penance robe cannot offer avatar accuracy during idle avatar melee.
Furthermore, because you can swap gear at the time of BP the -4 bloodpact delay on the penance robe is almost useless if you have a YingYang Robe which can be swapped in temporarily for enmity and greater bloodpact reduction. If you selected other things for the ACP body, then you will be unable to utilize the item during Idle avatar melee and must be forced to stick with Penance Robe. Unless of course, you don't mind taking the -2 perpetuation cost hit while idle.

Penance robe cannot compete with -2 Perpetuation with 15 ACC as a TP body for avatars. (Which is definitely viable for some summoners trying to gain TP for the newly buffed avatar merit abilities)


Well, this is why i would idle in YYR, the +enimity will add up, and you want the hate to be kept on you, during BPS i did switch to AF2, i have no room for a Penace, which is why i will never get it or even thought about it.

[Shin Volcano]

3rd in a row! i'll just add it to the previous one..

[umisame]

8 min fight = 20x8 = 160 mp


-2 perp if you like to solo its the best option. If you get someday a penance robe you can drop royal and change stats.

[Shin Volcano]

8 min fight = 20x8 = 160 mp


-2 perp if you like to solo its the best option. If you get someday a penance robe you can drop royal and change stats.

I'v had no problems soloing with a YYR, why would i need a penance o_O if i really need that - prep i'll wait for the correct day, in that situation, darksday and have -3 where it will really matter. won't ever, nor will ever need to put -2 prep on RR.

[AoshiZ]

Well, this is why i would idle in YYR, the +enimity will add up, and you want the hate to be kept on you, during BPS i did switch to AF2, i have no room for a Penace, which is why i will never get it or even thought about it.

This is up for opinion but, +enmity makes a bigger difference with hate being on during the bloodpact than during the regular melee TP. (5% hate increase on Predator Claws versus the few hits in between blood pacts)

The enmity+ can be compared to accuracy in which the accuracy will generate more hate and more TP for the avatar. The +enmity will only generate hate and most likely less hate.

Being used for Idle Tping the -5 Bloodpact delay reduction is negligible on YinYang.

The above along with the -1 loss of perpetuation would make yinyang robe inferior as a TP body for summoner.

Bottom line is whether you want to replace your Idle Avatar TP body or your Blood Pact body. The choice is really up to the individuals. However, -2 Perpetuation combined with ACC or double attack can offer a unique potential that nothing else can offer.

[Shin Volcano]

This is up for opinion but, +enmity makes a bigger difference with hate being on during the bloodpact than during the regular melee TP. (5% hate increase on Predator Claws versus the few hits in between blood pacts)

Last i checked PC ussualy does more then enough damage to keep hate the entire time she is alive, i'm not sure why doing it in YYR would even be an option.

The enmity+ can be compared to accuracy in which the accuracy will generate more hate and more TP for the avatar. The +enmity will only generate hate and most likely less hate.

Being used for Idle Tping the -5 Bloodpact delay reduction is negligible on YinYang.

no, but the +5 enimity on it is, if you can't BP there meeling with +5 enimity will save your life. that -5 BP is mainly for the buffing BPS since by then the -5 delay will come in handy,

The above along with the -1 loss of perpetuation would make yinyang robe inferior as a TP body for summoner.

Again...keeping hate on your pet is pretty vital to a SMN, "inferior" is not the word you are looking for here. i'll take 5 enimity to keep the mob from running to me far more then a loss of -1 prep

Bottom line is whether you want to replace your Idle Avatar TP body or your Blood Pact body. The choice is really up to the individuals. However, -2 Perpetuation combined with ACC or double attack can offer a unique potential that nothing else can offer.

Like what....-3 prep cost on Af2 body during day, and -1 with YYR + enimity +5 which helps alot solo. i'd rather put +15 attack in that slot so my pets hit harder..

[DAKPluto]

So for the people who are anti perp -2 (which I understand it's not OMG because of P. Robe, but P. Robe is rarely crafted and super expensive where this is a free piece. It's not OMGLOLBBQamazing but for a free piece, it deserves one of those adjectives).

Can someone give me a flame/drama free rational of why you choose something different on your SMN piece?

Simple:

The magic attack/accuracy I think has been explained by all why it's OMG Amazing. We all know that as a choice, it's pretty much the closest one to being a "OMG YOU ARE STUPID IF YOU DON'T GET"


As for the accuracy +15 as the 2nd spot for me, simple. What the 2nd stat gave for me was the chance to completely redo my merits. I dropped all my accuracy merits and was able to keep all my attack merits. It allows me to keep my Sac torque on instead of summoning torque. Sure, could have gone attack +15 and most of the time still have great acc. (and I may go back some day and try it.) but I'm a big fan of making sure I keep my accuracy as high as possible. Sure +30 attack (body and merits) may produce big epeen P.claws, but I'd much rather produce a higher AVERAGE than e.peen number.

The -2 perp cost: Before siphon, would have been an easy pick hands down. Post siphon, can't say I've ever had a single time where I've told myself "Damn, I could have done this with one more perp cost." And I still use my SMN as my "#1" job. And again, this is on a galka. I'm only working with a 1100 MP pool to start with. But, as a galka mage, I see piss poor MP management all the time from people with larger pools.


You wanted a flat simply why, there you go.

[nitsuj]

Simple:

The magic attack/accuracy I think has been explained by all why it's OMG Amazing. We all know that as a choice, it's pretty much the closest one to being a "OMG YOU ARE STUPID IF YOU DON'T GET"


As for the accuracy +15 as the 2nd spot for me, simple. What the 2nd stat gave for me was the chance to completely redo my merits. I dropped all my accuracy merits and was able to keep all my attack merits. It allows me to keep my Sac torque on instead of summoning torque. Sure, could have gone attack +15 and most of the time still have great acc. (and I may go back some day and try it.) but I'm a big fan of making sure I keep my accuracy as high as possible. Sure +30 attack (body and merits) may produce big epeen P.claws, but I'd much rather produce a higher AVERAGE than e.peen number.

The -2 perp cost: Before siphon, would have been an easy pick hands down. Post siphon, can't say I've ever had a single time where I've told myself "Damn, I could have done this with one more perp cost." And I still use my SMN as my "#1" job. And again, this is on a galka. I'm only working with a 1100 MP pool to start with. But, as a galka mage, I see piss poor MP management all the time from people with larger pools.


You wanted a flat simply why, there you go.

Makes sense.

[Tarage]

I just want free Fenrir some day.

[umisame]

I'v had no problems soloing with a YYR, why would i need a penance o_O if i really need that - prep i'll wait for the correct day, in that situation, darksday and have -3 where it will really matter. won't ever, nor will ever need to put -2 prep on RR.

You dont spend too much mp because you just fight easy mobs.

I challenge you to solo Lord of Onzozo with your YYR(avatar +5 enmty) and carbuncle. You can try to solo Narasimha too, it's easier.

[Shin Volcano]

You dont spend too much mp because you just fight easy mobs.

I challenge you to solo Lord of Onzozo with your YYR(avatar +5 enmty) and carbuncle. You can try to solo Narasimha too, it's easier.

I dont fight "easy" mobs nor do i fight rediciously hard mobs like LOO for no apprent or smart reason, why the hell would i fight him as solo smn? im not trying to earn bragging rights, my main fights are ussualy AF NMs, such as WHM Body AF and RNG Head AF, and evisiration WS NM those aren't "Easy" fights. Loo is a very stupid ass example to fight, because it's pointless.

Go solo Seiryu for example, since we just throwing needless "go solo this" options out there.

I don't spend alot of MP because i KNOW what i'm doing with the gear i have, as to why i dont need to waste a RR slot with a - 2 Prep i don't need. your logic failed.

So untill i find one situation that i need -2 prep to make sure i live, my decision won't change.

[umisame]

I dont fight "easy" mobs nor do i fight rediciously hard mobs like LOO for no apprent or smart reason, why the hell would i fight him as solo smn? im not trying to earn bragging rights, my main fights are ussualy AF NMs, such as WHM Body AF and RNG Head AF, and evisiration WS NM those aren't "Easy" fights. Loo is a very stupid ass example to fight, because it's pointless.

Go solo Seiryu for example, since we just throwing needless "go solo this" options out there.

I don't spend alot of MP because i KNOW what i'm doing with the gear i have, as to why i dont need to waste a RR slot with a - 2 Prep i don't need. your logic failed.

So untill i find one situation that i need -2 prep to make sure i live, my decision won't change.

Im not trying to change your mind, you just showed me how easy are your fights. Kill LoO isnt pointless, its fun and challenging.

[DAKPluto]

I bet a smn with movement speed could kill genbu. If someone lends me some heralds ill go try it.

I have really been wanting to try this. I did a duo once of NIN kite and me on SMN that went very well.

And yeah, I agree completely it could be done. Only concern for me is sometimes its possible for a mage mob like genbu to start a cast completely outside of your log range, you run in to BP, and bam, Flood to the face. So you have to be careful of those aspects.


It's the pop item solos that are less than possible, lol. Olla, could probally do if people kept the pots in the area clear for you.

Zip.....ouch.

[Shin Volcano]

Im not trying to change your mind, you just showed me how easy are your fights. Kill LoO isnt pointless, its fun and challenging.

It is pointless, he offers me nothing, i only fight "What is nessasary" not what gives me an e-peen,
he may be "fun" and "challanging" for you, but sure as hell not for me, i probably could, but i have no reason to try. didn't mention any easy fights, Aqurius is easier now that RR for MAB and Siphon are out, before any of the SMN updates i doubt you could kill him.

[Indalecia]

As for the accuracy +15 as the 2nd spot for me, simple. What the 2nd stat gave for me was the chance to completely redo my merits. I dropped all my accuracy merits and was able to keep all my attack merits. It allows me to keep my Sac torque on instead of summoning torque. Sure, could have gone attack +15 and most of the time still have great acc. (and I may go back some day and try it.) but I'm a big fan of making sure I keep my accuracy as high as possible. Sure +30 attack (body and merits) may produce big epeen P.claws, but I'd much rather produce a higher AVERAGE than e.peen number.

The -2 perp cost: Before siphon, would have been an easy pick hands down. Post siphon, can't say I've ever had a single time where I've told myself "Damn, I could have done this with one more perp cost." And I still use my SMN as my "#1" job. And again, this is on a galka. I'm only working with a 1100 MP pool to start with. But, as a galka mage, I see piss poor MP management all the time from people with larger pools.

I was about to rage and start knocking heads because of the bickering in the previous 2 pages, but this says it nicely.

Promise I'll be good.

And you could kill Aquarius/Cancer before siphon update. It just took 50min.

[Meian]

Several pages back there were screenies regarding the damage of Tier 2 BP.

Curious if there is data of the damage increase with the 7 MagAttk/7 MagAcc and how the accuracy of the Tier 2 BP is on endgame mobs (protos {limbus}/sky gods/wyrms/etc).

Main issue for me in choosing is seeing how major the difference was with tier 2 now with update + the body and merits vs. Automaton BLM Frame (which I need to see how their resists are now with that body...)


If I am still undecided, I may just wait until the "new avatars" come out and see how they work.

You dont spend too much mp because you just fight easy mobs.

I challenge you to solo Lord of Onzozo with your YYR(avatar +5 enmty) and carbuncle. You can try to solo Narasimha too, it's easier.

Did LoO solo with Carby and Fenrir mixed depending on how hate was and my MP (pre-siphon). Didn't finish it off before had a friend come (but was nearly down so I doubt there would be an issue unless bad luck happened).