Elegy nerf or HNM Buff?

[Amok]

They do?... I'm puzzled by having been slept for full duration with resist-sleep job trait on PLD. I was suggesting that the resist job traits were changed to affect max/base duration of debuffs, if they already do that then I just learned something new...

[ringthree]

Sure you don't mix stuff up here, since Resist Silence for example (on BRD) does most certainly block out being silenced alltogather when it actually triggers (like once in a green full moon when cockroaches mate with possums after a nuclear war).

(actually nevermind me, I misunderstood you I think)

There are two aspects to resists, and I find it surprising the number of people that do not understand this for themselves but understand it for mobs.

You are talking about a full resist, when the spell doesn't take effect at all. Mob can also get half resists on enfeebling magic also and resist traits effect that.

Take for example the PLD Antican in that Zilart mission. You can sleep it but it will almost always wake up before the others do.

Partial resists have always existed for mobs, as well as players. This is why I never understood why people complain that resist traits (like BRD resist silence) never worked. They do work, a BRD is more likely to have silence wear than another job that doesn't have the resist silence trait.

[cdgreg]

Not sure if Ouryu BC counts as a HNM, but we used to do 1 ES sleep II per landing, last night he resisted 50% duration so we needed 2 each time he was down. Caught us off guard at first. Not really that big of a deal considering the number of BLMs you bring to that fight but a "buff" either way.

[Serpent]

maint again today.. here's to hoping

[dejet]

Kind of gay if they nerfed it for BLM main, considering it's a native job ability. For subjob, well, can't really complain about that.

note: our only one JA lol hell ya screw with us even more SE... *buff whm*
*buff sam*
*buuf smn (man i like the smn update lol)
*buff pld* *buff SCH* *buff everything else in the game but blm,nin and forget soem other job i prob missed*
*nerf blms one JA*

how the hell could that be what SE wanted >.>? lol

though i did dyna last night only used One ES sleepga II seemed to last the normal time. i can go look in the logs to find out if it means anything.

based off logs it lasted 86sec(so ya 90 with log lag and shit)

[Liquidedust]

There are two aspects to resists, and I find it surprising the number of people that do not understand this for themselves but understand it for mobs.

You are talking about a full resist, when the spell doesn't take effect at all. Mob can also get half resists on enfeebling magic also and resist traits effect that.

Take for example the PLD Antican in that Zilart mission. You can sleep it but it will almost always wake up before the others do.

Partial resists have always existed for mobs, as well as players. This is why I never understood why people complain that resist traits (like BRD resist silence) never worked. They do work, a BRD is more likely to have silence wear than another job that doesn't have the resist silence trait.

I do understand the principle about what you said there is nothing confusing there, I however misread your initial post and thought you said you cannot outright resist it. However we are on same page.

We somehow managed to talk around eachother with me thinking we discussed details instead of rules (and on top of that me misunderstanding you alltogather which I guess add shame on top of failure).

Though for resist traits, getting a partial resist usually just is a minor glee since its quite annoying to get the debuff on you to start with (which is more my complaint towards resist traits, make them stronger since partial resist seldom matter to start with).

[ringthree]

They do?... I'm puzzled by having been slept for full duration with resist-sleep job trait on PLD. I was suggesting that the resist job traits were changed to affect max/base duration of debuffs, if they already do that then I just learned something new...

Well, there are two different issues. One about normal resists, and one about the currently borked maximum sleep timer.

PLD has a higher than normal chance to partially or completely resist sleep, this does not mean that it will always happen.

Maximum sleep duration is currently borked and hopefully that is what is being fixed today.

I think some people are mixing up the issue because of a lack of understanding of how resist traits work.

[ringthree]

I do understand the principle about what you said there is nothing confusing there, I however misread your initial post and thought you said you cannot outright resist it. However we are on same page.

We somehow managed to talk around eachother with me thinking we discussed details instead of rules (and on top of that me misunderstanding you alltogather which I guess add shame on top of failure).

Though for resist traits, getting a partial resist usually just is a minor glee since its quite annoying to get the debuff on you to start with (which is more my complaint towards resist traits, make them stronger since partial resist seldom matter to start with).

Yes we do agree. For player resist traits it only really matters if you get a full resist, but for mobs even a partial resist on an enfeeble can have an impact. I think this is were the issue comes from.

I think people would notice it if they knew the duration or the strength of the enfeebles but SE does not provide us with that information.

[ringthree]

note: our only one JA lol hell ya screw with us even more SE... *buff whm*
*buff sam*
*buuf smn (man i like the smn update lol)
*buff pld* *buff SCH* *buff everything else in the game but blm,nin and forget soem other job i prob missed*
*nerf blms one JA*

how the hell could that be what SE wanted >.>? lol

though i did dyna last night only used One ES sleepga II seemed to last the normal time. i can go look in the logs to find out if it means anything.

based off logs it lasted 86sec(so ya 90 with log lag and shit)

Don't pull an Aurik and have an aneurysm just because the is an update error. These things are usually sorted pretty quickly.

[Thorny]

It's not listed in known issues though(and they did list the problems with ranged etc), part of me wants to think SE did this to make RDM soloing require more strategy now that we have composure. As far as I can tell, faust seiryu and fenrir are impossible for the time being and likely zipacna as well(though maybe with a great dmg- set and straight tanking long sections of the fight). SCNMs mostly unaffected since you straight tank anyway >.>

[Aksannyi]

That's gay. Even kiting KV will be a pain in the ass now.

[Wulfgang]

Good example of what Thorny is talking about are Grahs. I've soloed a few hundred thousand XP on them as RNG with Sleep Bolts. If they are casting Flare, you shoot a sleep bolt, then shoot a holy bolt before ~80% casting, it will finish casting most of the time. I think Head Butt's ability to physically displace the mob may differentiate it? No idea

[Teorem]

I've never seen a stun wearing preemptively stop a tp move or fail to stop a not-manafonted spell. If anything, there's a very low chance of spells getting off through stun.. or head butt is just wonky and works in a way similar to prepatch weapon bash in that it might not interrupt casting despite stun landing. It's certainly not nearly as obvious as if you stun too fast on long tp moves.

I don't believe there are different magnitudes to the effect of Stun. I believe it's strictly a timing issue, otherwise Stun is Stun is Stun regardless of the source. I have never had a target stunned by Head Butt successfully get its spell/special off when it was stunned beyond this early window.

Weapon/Shield Bash wasn't patched to fix things getting off when Stun landed, it was to increase Stun occurring in the first place.

I think Head Butt's ability to physically displace the mob may differentiate it? No idea

Head Butt does not cause knockback. The movement is only part of the animation and not an actual physical displacement.

[Thorny]

Weapon/Shield Bash wasn't patched to fix things getting off when Stun landed, it was to increase Stun occurring in the first place.

I didn't say it was, but before it was patched you could land stun and not interrupt with it. I saw it happen on hakutaku, guy sent me SS and everything.. it was a huge deal to us because hakutaku was serious business back then.

[Gergall]

I'm at work, anyone able to re-test now that April 10 maint has just ended?

Patch notes don't mention it but it's worth a check.

[Aksannyi]

I'm on WHM in Aery. Isn't much I can do without bringing a world of Darter hate on my alliance. :/

[Thorny]

It's still broken, exact data incoming in a bit.

Bind - Today
15 6 16 4 R 21 R 9 11

Grav - Today
46 50 44 28 R

Bind - 3/10/09, Using Windower Logs
29 43 11 25 29 27

Grav - 3/10/09, Using Windower Logs
111 88 68 40 25

Durations are in seconds, R means resist, the kill on 3/10/09 was not solo so it didn't last very long. Today, I just plain died.. regardless, the same gear was used for both fights and the data should be glaringly obvious.. I can look further in logs for a true solo to provide a larger sample size if needed. I'm not sure what SE did, but it's certainly not limited to elemental seal. Both were done on days neutral to ice and wind.

[Shinsei]

So what, can you still do Ouryu with PLD/RDM or PLD/DRK, or do you need to /nin that up now?

[Renzy]

You can still use PLD/RDM, you just need to sleep it twice on the ground now :/

[Lilswitche]

Anyone test Dynamis mobs yet? I'm about to go solo the Eye that pops the Attest NMs... and I really don't want to get screwed over on poison II / Bio durations.