WAR and polearm

[Shinryuu]

This was brought up in the Cuchulain's topic (I think). I made this topic to motivate more WARs to use polearms, plain and simple. I don't ever see one in my merit parties, and the fact that I see more axe/axe WARs than polearm WARs is kind of depressing, IMO. Of course, polearm WAR has limited usage (merits on birds, perhaps Nyzul, Limbus, Einherjar, Salvage) but on the other hand it's only inventory -1 and it gives you more versatility.

- Does it beat GAX?

From my own experience? Yes, except Rune chopper (if you can get a Refresh) and Fortitude axe (if you want to spam stones, that is). That said, it's very hard to parse against yourself since there's way too many skewing factors. If you use one weapon for the first half hour and another for the second, it could still be the case that party members get more sloppy after a bit, etc. A good Perdu and a good Gondo won't be too far apart but I'm guessing Gondo slightly edges out on at least merit birds.

- What do I need?

A polearm. Engetsuto is the AHable weapon of choice until you can get your hands on a Gondo-shizunori. Fortunately, this shouldn't be hard at the moment. It drops from Royale Ramble, which people now do for the 100% ingot drop. If you're using blitz ring in your GAX setup, you're likely a bit better off with an ACC ring using polearm but it shouldn't matter very much. The same goes for lightning bow +1, if you're using it for the crit w/ GAX (if your hitrate is capped, why not) then you might have to switch back to bomblet. The rest of your TP and WS sets should be pretty much the same.

- But WAR... polearm... man my head hurts.

Look at the facts: WAR has the same skill as SAM in the weapon. SAMs abuse the piercing bonus in merits, and have been for a while. WAR has retaliate, aggressor, faster berserk, and more double attack. SAM has more store TP (potential 5-hit), Overwhelm, ungimped meditate and the option of Love halberd. Should be fairly close, ya? Now, no one uses Jailer weapons due to laziness, but you've seen those tomoe SAMs destroy birds left and right, right? Yeah we do that too.

An interesting parse to look at since it has no hitrate-skewing stuff. No thalasso or feint, no madrigal, no one ate sushi.

Spoiler: show

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/...tomoevbelt.gif

Blacked out name is a DRK/SAM, redded out is a tomoe SAM. Nhahagolah is me. Minuet BRD was... sloppy, hence the low WS averages. Both have decent to good equipment (5-hit build on tomoe, DRK has homams and v.belt). Keep in mind that your mileage may vary. My equipment when using polearm in merits (polearm is gondo-shizunori):

Spoiler: show

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/...et/polearm.png

I have 5/5 berserk, 5/5 double attack, 5 DEX, and 4 polearm merits.

Hopefully I've motivated more WARs to at least try using polearm. It's pretty fun, IMO.

[Valyana]

I had fun with an Engetsuto in merits in a party where we were getting Madrigal. But I don't have any pole merits, so I fear my acc when Agg is down if I'm not getting Madrigal or Hunter's Roll. Even with Ares hands instead of Dusk I'm looking at 77.5% acc.

It's definitely useful to have polearm as an option, though. Besides the piercing bonus, it's a 2h weapon with a stun WS, useful for doing decent damage while holding TP for stun.

[Colenzo]

ive seen it against my polearm sam on birds, its sexy, its no samurai with a polearm but its sexy

[Asura_Zilla]

I'm a gimp so when I run out of meat I bust out crab sushi and go to town with polearm :<.. Last time I did that I was averaging (with BRD & COR) around 1.3-1.4k penta, which I guess is not too bad considering my GAxe averages were just about that (spiking higher~ 1.9-2k). No polearm merits, and 3Bergressor 4DA merits. Too bad I rarely if ever play WAR in my merit parties >.>...

[Knyghtmayre]

I have no idea how a WAR/SAM with a polearm outpentas a SAM/WAR with a polearm when SAM/WAR gets +19% WS Damage... SAM's gear plz.

[FailureMidgard]

I have no idea how a WAR/SAM with a polearm outpentas a SAM/WAR with a polearm when SAM/WAR gets +19% WS Damage... SAM's gear plz.

Who says he has Overwhelm at all? The SAM had a lower WS average than the WAR (by 150+...).

There's no way the sam had capped accuracy on Pentas, or overwhelm, from the looks of it.

[richardd]

That tomoe's sam WS averages were HORRENDOUS. me and veyronn used to average 1300-1400s depending on our buffers, etc. 1200's if we had 1 brd. War with polearm is nothing new, it is neat but overwhelm x5 can give relic drgs a run for their money, as i done it a few times lol. i remember byrthnoth used number crunch it a lot. Sams do have it easier though. They have tomoe and the levi couse. is the Engetsuto the best pole wars can equip?

oh ps. love halberd on polearm sam is terrible

[Valyana]

Sams do have it easier though. They have tomoe and the levi couse. is the Engetsuto the best pole wars can equip?

No, WAR can use levi couse. If you can get one.

[Knyghtmayre]

This was right after I capped polearm, haven't even capped merits, Penta build is in its' alpha stage, and I'm a fucking taru.

http://i40.tinypic.com/9iqovl.png

Sukasaroth well-geared DRG, Mertron DW R/J WAR

[Marcicus]

People really need to quit acting like races play a huge role in damage.

[Knyghtmayre]

Yeah, my 64 base STR is equivalent to an elf's 80 base STR. Shut up.

[Cream Soda]

lol did you just compare unmerited str to merited str?

[Marcicus]

Yeah, my 64 base STR is equivalent to an elf's 80 base STR. Shut up.

More proof you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

[Knyghtmayre]

Even meritted the difference is 11 STR >o I regret restarting as a taru everyday, BUT GODDAMN I'M CUTE

Edit: lol@^reply Let's count all the elvaan BLMs that can outdamage taru BLMs with the same gear... OH WAIT LOL

[Marcicus]

So let me get this straight, you think 11 STR is the difference between night and day in merits? Cause if you do, there's no point continuing this discussion.

[Knyghtmayre]

So let me get this straight, you'd YGK without any hands equipped and let the other guy YGK with Alky's and say it's all square?

[Marcicus]

There is a huge difference between not using an item for a weaponskill and two people with different playstyles/jobs/merits/how fast one switches targets between mobs etc. Race is no where near of a factor as those conditions I listed above. I'm sure you can at least recognize this simple fact?

[Knyghtmayre]

It's not nearly as differentiating as someone's ability to pay attention while meritting, but it is differentiating. I'd sure as fuck take 11 more STR to at least get some higher Penta peaks, which was what the initial argument was: Race vs Race during WS. Elves have an (11-16 STR) advantage over Tarus during WS, do you not agree?

[Marcicus]

There are times where everyone wants Elvaan STR when they're WSing lol, I'm no different. But come on, going around saying "I'm a Taru" is less significant than the conditions I listed above.

edit: Sorry for late replies, meriting on COR and putting this SAM/NIN to shame. >_>

[orson]

If Fort. Axe is beating your pole arm then red flags go up immediately because Perdu Voulge or Rune Chopper easily beats Fort. Axe in 90% of fights especially if you're /Sam. This idea was pretty much beaten to death on killing ifrit back in the day, after the 2-hander update. A long story short, unless you have max Polearm merits and have no Great Axe merits then you aren't going to beat out Great Axe even on Greater Colibri (look at the acc and att differences and you'll see why.) If you s badly want to use Polearm in merits then you should level Drg and merit with it especially since Drakesbane kicks ass compared to Penta Thrust. Finally if you're Great Axe isn't winning over Polearm in the Colibri camp go get more merits.