WAR and polearm

[Yugl]

The reason he didn't include Dusk+1 was probably because of a rarity factor more than a price factor. On Diabolos, Dusk+1 feet are as rare, if not, rarer than Ancient Torque.

All of that said, spending time to merit polearm 8/8, building a particular gear set that includes Love Torque for optimal returns all in the name of e-peen on birds isn't enough to justify keeping those merits open for another job and in return, still getting great exp using a GAxe.

Seriously, this is becoming like a fucking Allah thread. No one gives a shit how fucking awesome you are at colibri camp.

What else would a WAR only plan on meriting? Ancient Torque is superior to L Torque and works for WAR as well. If you have multiple mage classes to merit, this can prove beneficial considering the amount of merits one might need.

[Starr]

The problem we are trying to point out Knyght is that you can be good at meriting with Great Axe (I am fucking amazing at this bro), sure you could do 3% more damage with a Polearm but who really cares that much? That's not being good, that's being OCD.

@Yugl, they are more available here.

[RobertLangdon]

This game been out for too long to see those crazy ideas.
Nothing can beat Gaxe on war, if something beats Gaxe war means your warrior gear set sucks.
Perdu > Polearm
Also you are warrior and you boost 5Dex on merit ? jesus..

[Knyghtmayre]

You can classify it as whatever you want, necessary or unneeded, it outperforms. Even if it's only 3%, 3%>0%, always will be. If you care about maximizing potential or are just plain bored of GAX, then WAR can and should outperform it with a polearm on birds. I doubt that it'd ever be useful anywhere other than birds for WAR, seeing as RR excels more on neutral mobs than a B-/+ skill weapon will.

[Dooom]

This game been out for too long to see those crazy ideas.

And I'm sure people said the same thing about stuff like pld/nin, nin/rdm, rdm/nin tanks, fumas > dunes, etc. etc. etc. Things, and our understand of said things, change.

[Starr]

And I'm sure people said the same thing about stuff like pld/nin, nin/rdm, rdm/nin tanks, fumas > dunes, etc. etc. etc. Things, and our understand of said things, change.

Yeah, you just got trolled.

[CDF]

I'm surprised my "article" was cited especially since I didn't show my work.

At any rate, I am aware of the weaknesses associated with the various assumptions that are necessary to simplify the calculations. In particular, I explained the use of KJ (not sure about the critical hit bonus, if any, for RR at 100 TP) and the pDIF assumption avoids concern about the shape of the distribution (only care that it appears symmetrical for high cRatio, which is still not that great a hedge as pDIF does not seem well understood for two-handed weapons anyway). (Also, it was assumed Fortitude Axe can swing up to four times in a single attack round, which is most likely false based on my experience so far.) That doesn't mean I used the same pDIF for polearm and great axe.

But, since I separated frequency of attacks from damage per attack, you can substitute the appropriate average damage estimates for both WSes (which you can get from parser output) and damage per hit in the TP phase.

[Madvillain]

Let's just apply that mindset to the entire game? Meritting is just as much a part of this fucking game as doing anything else... you may as well be good at it.

Yes, because meriting is where people spend more than 50% of their time in-game, amirtie? This comment always gets me. Next you're going to tell me that this gives you the baseline to validate all your gear sets, etc, etc, blah, blah. Please tell me how valuable a polearm is going to be for the actual 90% of the time you don't spend fighting pink birds. I'll wait.

Also on the Love Torque vs. Ancient Torque comment: w/e. Moot point is moot.

[Knyghtmayre]

How many merits does the average person that does endgame have? Way too many to just write it off as non-existant and not worth caring about. I'm not saying you should gear ONLY for merits, but you should gear for merits. As far as polearm, it outperforms GKT for SAM in any high-buff/zerg situation, and anything that's against weak mobs (Ein/Salvage/Limbus). Though as I've already said, for WAR it's pretty much limited to simply birds since there's no overwhelm or 5-hit to keep up at neutral merit camps.

[Madvillain]

How many merits does the average person that does endgame have? Way too many to just write it off as non-existant and not worth caring about. I'm not saying you should gear ONLY for merits, but you should gear for merits. As far as polearm, it outperforms GKT for SAM in any high-buff/zerg situation, and anything that's against weak mobs (Ein/Salvage/Limbus). Though as I've already said, for WAR it's pretty much limited to simply birds since there's no overwhelm or 5-hit to keep up at neutral merit camps.

Ok, I understand where you are comming from. I agree there is a point to having the merits if you plan to merit multiple jobs, but think for a second; if your only job is/is going to be WAR, you can spend the time meriting with GAxe and get merits OR you spend the time meriting WAR and get merits for polearm, spend time unlocking a polearm and building a viable gear-set for polearm. You can see where you time is best spent, I hope. Polearm isn't worth meriting if your justification to to get a TINY bit more exp to finish your WAR merits.

Again, maybe if you have multiple jobs to merit. WAR only? Fuck the polearm. Shit is going to be so situational you're just OCD otherwise.

[RobertLangdon]

Might as well try with Joyeuse! merti sword fTW!

[Cream Soda]

Ok, I understand where you are comming from. I agree there is a point to having the merits if you plan to merit multiple jobs, but think for a second; if your only job is/is going to be WAR, you can spend the time meriting with GAxe and get merits OR you spend the time meriting WAR and get merits for polearm, spend time unlocking a polearm and building a viable gear-set for polearm. You can see where you time is best spent, I hope. Polearm isn't worth meriting if your justification to to get a TINY bit more exp to finish your WAR merits.

Again, maybe if you have multiple jobs to merit. WAR only? Fuck the polearm. Shit is going to be so situational you're just OCD otherwise.

I look at it this way. it's fine, use what you want. As long as you don't try to say oh gax is better on birds as your reason, but instead, oh the extra output isn't worth what i have to input to the build or ect.

Kinda the way I look at it w/ gimps. Use what u want (though if they go that road they won't be pt'in w/ me, not saying this is gax wars though just an general example) I'm not gonna say shit until you try to defend the choice as being superior

[Madvillain]

I don't know enough of the math to defend which choice is superior, nor have I seen anyone parse ideal gear (GAxe) vs. ideal gear (Polearm). Even more to the point: I think bird camp is shit anyway. From the 4 1/2 years I have played this game and through the number of merit parties I have been in, I haven't seen a Polearm WAR even begin to produce the damage of a merited GAxe WAR.

I will admit if you have multiple jobs you intend to merit, go with God and polearm that shit up for best results if that's what you believe works best. All I really should have put into my posts to get across is that, for me, meriting polearm for WAR only seems like, needless, extra work for as little result as you are going to achieve.

[Starr]

I doubt you've ever seen someone using a 6-hit on WAR with Polearm though, I know I haven't and it would change my opinion a bit but seriously you are taking things to another level of I don't know what to call it, not leetnesss, if you think people who don't have a full gear set/merits/macros set for Polearm for the one camp in the game it is viable and to make PT set ups set around it, are not good players. Honestly tl;dr of this topic IMO is yeah use Polearm if you have the merits and gear (at least a 6-hit with capped Accuracy with Crab Sushi) to support it for that 3% if you really want to but otherwise stick to Great Axe and do perfectly fine damage. GKT SAM to Polearm SAM is a massive increase comparitive to WAR with Polearm.

Also CBT you say you didn't wanna use RR cus you don't know crit % at 100%, it is at least 24% with capped dDEX and this is known, not that I expect you to redo all the math it was a good read.

[Spider-Dan]

I like how gearing/meriting for the best camp in the game (a location in which you can end up spending literally hundreds of hours) is somehow considered a waste of time.

[Starr]

Capped merits=then what, camp taken=then what, etc.

[Madvillain]

I like how gearing/meriting for the best camp in the game (a location in which you can end up spending literally hundreds of hours) is somehow considered a waste of time.

Best camp in your opinion. Mamool Ja SP consistently nets me better exp/hr everytime I have gone to merit. If birds is where you're getting your best exp, you don't merit with support or you blow at making merit parties. The only time my exp peaked at birds was in a DRG-burn party during the 2hd update.

[Thunder]

Best camp in your opinion. Mamool Ja SP consistently nets me better exp/hr everytime I have gone to merit. If birds is where you're getting your best exp, you don't merit with support or you blow at making merit parties. The only time my exp peaked at birds was in a DRG-burn party during the 2hd update.

Setting yourself up for, "don't gear correctly"

GKT -> PLM is such a huge leap because you switch into piercing, 5hit and a WS that actually uses buffs. But with war you switch into just piercing for a loss of a ton of acc/atk.

Not to mention, a majority of wars here wont be able to gear for a 6hit in which case I doubt GAX -> 7hit polearm would be anything but stupid.

[Madvillain]

I like how gearing/meriting for the best camp in the game

Setting yourself up for, "don't gear correctly"

He made a general, unsolicited, statement. I figured I would oblige him with my own.

[Thunder]

He made a general, unsolicited, statement. I figured I would oblige him with my own.

He made an unsolicited fact, you gave your unsolicited opinion. But who the hell asks for the information that proves them wrong?

There's been a lot of discussion between middle bird camp with properly geared melee and good support. I thought it was pretty much known that colibri are the best.