WAR and polearm

[Spider-Dan]

Best camp in your opinion. Mamool Ja SP consistently nets me better exp/hr everytime I have gone to merit. If birds is where you're getting your best exp, you don't merit with support or you blow at making merit parties. The only time my exp peaked at birds was in a DRG-burn party during the 2hd update.

Then apparently you don't know WTF you are doing.

It's been pretty well-established that birds+wivres is definitely better than the existing popular merit camps.

- Nyzul Mamool doesn't have enough spawns
- Front MJSP is littered with low-exp puks and doesn't have enough mamool to sustain chains; North MJSP has two puks, which is really still two too many
- Lurkers at North MJSP (and Nyzul Mamool, I guess) require you to rotate accuracy buffs in (and out), which wastes time on everything that isn't Lurkers
- Super-elite parties at either MJSP will be forced to kill Skoffins, which have WSes that range from annoying (AoE paralyze) to deadly (Fang Rush) to exp-crippling (AoE dispel, particularly on Corsair's Roll)

I have yet to see a single person make any sort of coherent argument for any camp over birds+wivres other than "it was already taken".

So yes, tweaking yourself specifically for birds is, indeed, worth it.

[Tsuko_Asura]

I have yet to see a single person make any sort of coherent argument for any camp over birds+wivres other than "it was already taken".

Jesus Christ, thank you.

And I'm just as thankful that you're probably the only person I've seen point out the fact that being overly-successful at northern MJSP is self-defeating because of the need to pull Skoffin, and because at least one of them is going to Dispel you and fuck up the roll rotation, stripping you of one of the most important factors in meriting, Corsair's Roll.

[Madvillain]

Then apparently you don't know WTF you are doing.

Yup, you're the authority.

It's been pretty well-established that birds+wivres is definitely better than the existing popular merit camps.

Really? Copywrited too, I hope.

Nyzul Mamool doesn't have enough spawns

Enough for 30k/hr

Front MJSP is littered with low-exp puks and doesn't have enough mamool to sustain chains; North MJSP has two puks, which is really still two too many

Because you should limit yourself to one part of that zone? STFU, you sound stupid.

Lurkers at North MJSP (and Nyzul Mamool, I guess) require you to rotate accuracy buffs in (and out), which wastes time on everything that isn't Lurkers

Fuck that's like a 8 second buff. God that's a long fucking time >.> When you have two BRDs, that must be even harder. Again: STFU, you sound stupid.

Super-elite parties at either MJSP will be forced to kill Skoffins, which have WSes that range from annoying (AoE paralyze) to deadly (Fang Rush) to exp-crippling (AoE dispel, particularly on Corsair's Roll)

A single RDM can handle this with a competent set of DDs. It doesn't really kill exp at all, especially if you are talking "elite" players. The same can be said for birds (Annoying WS: Feather Tickle/Snatch Morsel. Deadly: Pecking Flurry.) One more time for added effect: STFU you sound stupid.

Also to note, wivre must be a fuck-ton easier to kill than a Skoffin, right? Those don't have annoying DEF buffs or high DEF or anything.....no, not at all.

[Cream Soda]

- Lurkers at North MJSP (and Nyzul Mamool, I guess) require you to rotate accuracy buffs in (and out), which wastes time on everything that isn't Lurkers

While I agree w/ birds/wivre being the best exp, I'm going to disagree w/ the above quote. I don't know how other jobs are w/ their acc, but w/ my mnk, I hit 83-85% hitrate on Lurkers w/ pizza +1 and saving focus particularly for them (and since only 1 lurker in either mamool camp) I always just save it for them. It makes swapping buffs unnecessary

[Tsuko_Asura]

Since when do Wivre reset a roll rotation?

[Tsuko_Asura]

Fuck that's like a 8 second buff. God that's a long fucking time >.> When you have two BRDs, that must be even harder. Again: STFU, you sound stupid.

The fact that you talk about parties devoid of Corsairs in reference to ideal meriting speaks volumes.

That, and saying, "STFU" in conjuction with, "You sound stupid" is pretty ironic.

[Yugl]

@MadVillain: What about mages that only use WAR for merit PTs?

[Madvillain]

The fact that you talk about parties devoid of Corsairs in reference to ideal meriting speaks volumes.

The fact you assume it is devoid of a COR when I previously stated I prefer 2 BRD, COR + RDM speaks volumes of your reading ability.

Have a nice night pumpkin, work is over.

[Spider-Dan]

[re: Nyzul Mamool's lack of mobs]
Enough for 30k/hr

Is this supposed to be a counterpoint?

Admitting that Nyzul Mamool caps out at 30k/hr means you've just disqualified it from being as good as birds+wivres.

[re: puks at MJSP]
Because you should limit yourself to one part of that zone? STFU, you sound stupid.

Take any area you want in the zone. There are too many puks (which will add on a puller that's pulling at elite speed, and therefore will require you to waste time killing them for low exp).

[re: Madrigal for Lurkers]
Fuck that's like a 8 second buff. God that's a long fucking time >.> When you have two BRDs, that must be even harder. Again: STFU, you sound stupid.

When mobs take <=20 seconds to kill, 8 seconds to apply Madrigal and 8 seconds to reapply Minuet is A Big F*cking Deal. I'm sorry if you're bad at math.

[re: Skoffin WS]
A single RDM can handle this with a competent set of DDs.

How does RDM handle dispelled rolls/songs, again?

I find it mildly hilarious that you suggest a single RDM as a solution for AoE paralyze.

The same can be said for birds (Annoying WS: Feather Tickle/Snatch Morsel. Deadly: Pecking Flurry.)

Feather Tickle is not AoE.
Snatch Morsel takes less than a second to self-rectify, and, again, is not AoE.
Pecking Flurry is deadly? You heard it here first, folks.

Also to note, wivre must be a fuck-ton easier to kill than a Skoffin, right? Those don't have annoying DEF buffs or high DEF or anything.....no, not at all.

Wivres use f*cking berserk (this is the OPPOSITE of a DEF buff) and the one consequential TP move that they do is easily countered by healers with TParty plugin.

[Rocl]

Meritting: The Most Hotly Debated Topic of 2009

[Knyghtmayre]

Demoralizing Roar: AoE Attack Down 50%.
Granite Hide: Immunity to physical attacks from the front.

Admittedly not as bad as Skoffins, though.

[Spider-Dan]

Granite Skin affects one person.
Demoralizing Roar is fixed by erasing whoever has the most TP.

Comparing these to Dread Shriek and Dispelling Wind is absurd.

[Abandon]

This hardcore bitchfest is also absurd.

[Starr]

Then apparently you don't know WTF you are doing.

It's been pretty well-established that birds+wivres is definitely better than the existing popular merit camps.

- Nyzul Mamool doesn't have enough spawns
- Front MJSP is littered with low-exp puks and doesn't have enough mamool to sustain chains; North MJSP has two puks, which is really still two too many
- Lurkers at North MJSP (and Nyzul Mamool, I guess) require you to rotate accuracy buffs in (and out), which wastes time on everything that isn't Lurkers
- Super-elite parties at either MJSP will be forced to kill Skoffins, which have WSes that range from annoying (AoE paralyze) to deadly (Fang Rush) to exp-crippling (AoE dispel, particularly on Corsair's Roll)

I have yet to see a single person make any sort of coherent argument for any camp over birds+wivres other than "it was already taken".

So yes, tweaking yourself specifically for birds is, indeed, worth it.

Really this is stupid, you know full well that the camp is only extremely good if you can camp the middle and pull from the bottom so you would need no PTs there, and maybe even some Mamools/pets which again would need no PTs there. Highly. Fucking. Unlikely. It does not happen often on Hades. Plus, if you have to kill Wivre and/or Mamools/pets where Great Axe would do more damage it's getting even less logical to use Polearm. PLUS if you were doing 30k/hr with Corsair's Roll, a perfectly acceptable amount, if you do 3% more damage and get 3% more exp that's only fucking 900 exp more per hour, fucking amazing right?

[Rocl]

If you get 900 more per hour that's a whole merit after a little over 10 hours. So while you're sitting there with your 300 merits, I'll be sitting here with 301 merits.

[Knyghtmayre]

If you get 900 more per hour that's a whole merit after a little over 10 hours. So while you're sitting there with your 300 merits, I'll be sitting here with 301 merits.

You just fucking blew my mind

shit

[Rocl]

You go ahead and be playing with your polearms on warrior, I'ma be playing with Great Axe on your girlfriend's titties at the club.

[Yugl]

You go ahead and be playing with your polearms on warrior, I'ma be playing with Great Axe on your girlfriend's titties at the club.

KILL HER.

Edit: This is getting fucking ridiculous. Off topic, but truth be told, this needs to be said.

Look at the facts:

1. "Someone" trying to safe face from his rampage (And inevitable trolling) of his own thread, necrobumps this topic with a question about WAR set ups. Ironically, he uses the exact words "What's Better", yet doesn't bother to post it in a more recent, stickied, and far more potent thread than this.

2. That "someone" has been trying to safe face it recently after shitting up his own thread by going on a rampage against the people posting there (Who are actually of the same quality as he is since neither him nor them posted math results). He also accuses me of saying that said thread would not turn out well (Which is obviously a lie if anyone cares to look at the first two posts in the thread), yet all that came out of it was him nodding to Thorny's math which could have been accomplished through PMs/Randomest Questions/What's Better (ROCL'S) thread (Which was actually the point I made in my first post there).

3. That "someone" obviously didn't read the thread or got nothing out of it if he's asking questions in regards to WAR without Polearm merits. Furthermore, any answers he receives, he's been quick to dismiss (Again, if he knows so much, why doesn't he just figure it out himself instead of asking questions then rejecting them).

4. Same person then suggested that Polearms is a waste bothering with and brought us into this fucking merit PT mess that's been going on the last few pages.

It's late, so I'm probably not explaining this as well as I could, and I'm probably missing a few points that might make the logic clearer. For those who don't understand, I might be able to fix it up tomorrow, but I'm also sure that there are some who can see the problem that I'm pointing out here.

[ClarkSammich]

If you get 900 more per hour that's a whole merit after a little over 10 hours. So while you're sitting there with your 300 merits, I'll be sitting here with 301 merits.

Can that be the end of the thread?

[Starr]

I didn't shit up no threads Yugl, you shitted up mine and I just gave my opinion here. I thoroughly enjoy this debate as I'm sure Tsuko and Spider-Dan etc do so why don't you stop being selfish and STFU?