WAR and polearm

[Spider-Dan]

I don't even know what you're talking about anymore, I am comparing the exp you would get at bird camp with one Warrior (or 2 if you wanna make this stupid arguement even more rediculous) using Great Axe to one melee using Polearm, it is going to be a tiny increase in exp/hour (this is what we merit for) and be pointless.

Hey guys, don't bother meriting Berserk... if you compare a party with one WAR with merited 'zerk and a party with one WAR with unmerited 'zerk, you get what, like 500 more exp/hr, if that? So yeah, why bother?

[Starr]

You're being a complete and utter idiot now, merited Berserk would help for damage on EVERY EVENT AND EVERY CAMP IN THE ENTIRE GAME, I guess you still have no clue what people with brains are trying to say here.

[Fridell]

Meriting Berserk adds shit loads of damage, plus helps out so many more aspects of the game then a Polearm will, why even bring it up ?

[Spider-Dan]

There are two distinct arguments being made:

1) PLM WAR does [more than|the same as|less than] GAX WAR at bird camp
2) Bird camp is [better than|the same as|worse than] other piercing-neutral camps

If you want to start arguing over which improvements are Really Worth It, why limit it to PLM WAR? Surely we should all be wearing NQ Amemet, right?

[BerenTebogo]

I don't like meriting zerk only anyways I do think that's dumb

even zerkgressor timers make me happy.

[liggy 0]

There are two distinct arguments being made:

i think it was finished a while ago

If you want to start arguing over which improvements are Really Worth It, why limit it to PLM WAR? Surely we should all be wearing NQ Amemet, right?

HQ amemet with -1str aug still has whitebox factor

[FailureMidgard]

The problem we are trying to point out Knyght is that you can be good at meriting with Great Axe (I am fucking amazing at this bro), sure you could do 3% more damage with a Polearm but who really cares that much? That's not being good, that's being OCD.

@Yugl, they are more available here.

Byakko's Axe is perfectly cool to use also right? Perdu is probably less than a 3% increase.
And you mentioned Dusk+1 earlier...fuck that shit, that's way less than a 3% increase.
Fuck ebody, fuck haubergeon for that matter, let's just go with a SH, it's not worth a ~3% increase in damage to lose THAT much evasion, right?! And seriously,fuck Amemet+1, doesn't even hit a 1% increase.

Just toss your 3% damage at every turn, let's see how you turn out. The fact is, you arbitrarily decided that -this- 3% damage is less important than others, and besides all this, who came up with it being a 3% dmg increase? Seems like it should be more than that...

And ya know, #4 and 5 in overwhelm are like a 1.7% increase each! So useless to get those.

Capped merits=then what, camp taken=then what, etc.

Then all the other places in the game where it's good, you can use it...

-2 out of 4 apollyon zones it's better in, debateably more temenos zones.
-20% (guess?) of einherjar zones
-best merit camp in the game
-Temp, Roc, Simurgh
-many other random uses (though many are specialized)

I've also wondered if it wouldn't beat Gaxe with Mighty Strikes up...maybe not now with KJ added, but before, I'd think it'd outdo using SC or RR with Mighty Strikes.

http://i29.tinypic.com/288mb10.png
@Mid

1 in 4 so Rocl was right, now looking at an increase of 2.3%~ damage from Polearm to Great Axe, you still think people are mediocre for not using it Knyght?

That's 1 in 5, or a 1:4 ratio, not 1 in 4.



I don't particularly care too much what people want to do - but you can't sit here and claim 3% isn't a big enough increase, but then bitch about dusk+1's 1% haste increase...you shouldn't sit here and say you're fine doing 3% less damage, but then post people in the gimp thread (or if you can, the gimp thread needs a threshold of gimp that is acceptable).

Polearm has multiple uses on warrior, and you are not the BG elitist you want to be if you aren't taking advantage of it.

[Madvillain]

Is this supposed to be a counterpoint?

Admitting that Nyzul Mamool caps out at 30k/hr means you've just disqualified it from being as good as birds+wivres.

No, my point was simply that there is not a lack of mobs. 30K/hr is very nice.

Take any area you want in the zone. There are too many puks (which will add on a puller that's pulling at elite speed, and therefore will require you to waste time killing them for low exp).

Fuck, puks take a long time to kill, I forgot.

When mobs take <=20 seconds to kill, 8 seconds to apply Madrigal and 8 seconds to reapply Minuet is A Big F*cking Deal. I'm sorry if you're bad at math.

2 BRDs. I think it is you, who are math deficient

How does RDM handle dispelled rolls/songs, again?

If you used just a little more brain power, you would see that you were the one who suggested "Elite" players. If two BRDs a COR + RDM have trouble maintaining buffs againts the "chance" a Skoffin will get a dispell song off or even use it, then they probably aren't elite.

I find it mildly hilarious that you suggest a single RDM as a solution for AoE paralyze.

I find it very hilarious how fucking stupid you are. MJSP is a roaming camp, thus makes the choice for subbing NIN on BRD, a non-factor. What's that one sub that BRD gets again with Paralyna? <-- Rhetorical in the event you were confused.

Feather Tickle is not AoE.
Snatch Morsel takes less than a second to self-rectify, and, again, is not AoE.
Pecking Flurry is deadly? You heard it here first, folks.

Elite players have trouble with Skoffin at MJSP, you heard it here first, folks.

Wive rarely use f*cking berserk (this is the OPPOSITE of a DEF buff) and the one consequential TP move that they do is easily countered by healers with TParty plugin. Then again they still can kill an exp chain

ftfy.

Seriously are you the resident retard for this forum? You seem to have no ability to create a rational thought outside of "This one guy showed me this thing one time so it's the only truth in the universe." We can go back and forth at this for hours I assume. I'm going to leave it at that since this is really becoming a flame war. GL with you next post, I hope it's a doozy!

[FailureMidgard]

No, my point was simply that there is not a lack of mobs. 30K/hr is very nice.

30k/hr is very adequate, perhaps "Relaxing" would be a good word. 35k/hr is nice.

Fuck, puks take a long time to kill, I forgot.

? They take about as long as a mamool...

2 BRDs. I think it is you, who are math deficient

??? And what does that have to do with anything? You maintain 2 marches throughout, so ignore the fact that bard exists. ONE bard replaces ONE song with Madrigal, which they then have to do TWO more songs to replace it.
So it's 8 seconds to get a madrigal up (~5sec with proper gear), which is ~25-50% of the total kill time for a given mob, then it's 16 seconds (or 10) to remove it during the next mob. And how the fuck is 2 bards even remotely relevent to 1 song going up...

If you used just a little more brain power, you would see that you were the one who suggested "Elite" players. If two BRDs a COR + RDM have trouble maintaining buffs againts the "chance" a Skoffin will get a dispell song off or even use it, then they probably aren't elite.

Rolls have a 1minute cooldown to put up. There is no elite or skill involved in this. If your corsair just put a roll up (Surprise, corsairs keeping up 4 rolls have their roll timer down 80% of the time), then the skoffin dispels a roll, you have to wait before you can get a new roll. Worst case scenario, the skoffin dispelled corsair's roll 50 seconds before the cor can do a new roll, right before it dies. So you suddenly lose out on 17% exp for 50 seconds, which is easily the skoffin + 2 more mobs, or right about 50% of a mob worth of exp. 'grats, the Skoffin just dispelled your Puk. And that's not counting into account that the corsair has to not refresh dark roll 50 seconds later to get corsair's roll back up, so in addition to that 50 seconds of no cor roll, you go another minute without dark roll.

It's pretty clear you don't have a good grasp of game mechanics.

Elite players have trouble with Skoffin at MJSP, you heard it here first, folks.

See, you're dumb, and don't realize it. We don't have trouble with Skoffin, keeping chain, maintaining 30k/hr, etc. Skoffin are part of the reason you cannot regularly and easily see the 35k+/hr parties at MJSP. They aren't "bad", they aren't "hard". They are just worse in every way, shape, and form than the alternative.

Seriously are you the residential retard for this forum? You seem to have no ability to create a rational thought outside of "This one guy showed me this thing one time so it's the only truth in the universe." We can go back and forth at this for hours I assume. I'm going to leave it at that since this is really becoming a flame war. GL with you next post, I hope it's a doozy!

Really, I'm not a fan of retards, but the only thing worse is when the poster of one of the most retarded, least though out posts I've read in a while is calling someone else one.

[Spider-Dan]

30K/hr is very nice.

30k/hr is not "best camp in the game".

[re: puks]
Fuck, puks take a long time to kill, I forgot.

Puks take 75% as long to kill for 50% of the exp. They are a waste of time.

If you like puks, go to mire. Then you can masskill Ts for double-digit exp/kill all day long.

[re: Madrigal on Lurkers]
2 BRDs. I think it is you, who are math deficient

Please explain how having two bards makes ANY DIFFERENCE AT ALL in the speed of swapping out ONE song.

8 seconds is YOUR claim, not mine. When you are killing mobs in 20 seconds, 8 seconds to apply Mad and 8 seconds to reapply Min (plus 8 more to clear off Mad with another Min) is significant.

If you used just a little more brain power, you would see that you were the one who suggested "Elite" players. If two BRDs a COR + RDM have trouble maintaining buffs againts the "chance" a Skoffin will get a dispell song off or even use it, then they probably aren't elite.

No, I'm the one who was talking about the best camp in the game. If your party is too feeble to take advantage, then it doesn't matter where you camp. It only matters when you are good enough to push the maximum that the camp can support (read: you are elite).

I also look forward to your explanation as to how a COR can Use More Skill and quickly reapply rolls when their recast is 50-60s at a minimum.

I find it very hilarious how fucking stupid you are. MJSP is a roaming camp, thus makes the choice for subbing NIN on BRD, a non-factor. What's that one sub that BRD gets again with Paralyna? <-- Rhetorical in the event you were confused.

Wait, what happened to "A single RDM can handle this with a competent set of DDs"?

If I say that a single BRD is enough support for 30k/hr party, does that mean I can turn around and say, "I meant a single BRD... and also a COR and another BRD"?

Elite players have trouble with Skoffin at MJSP, you heard it here first, folks.

Um, yes. This is why you are the only person in this thread disputing how much worse Skoffins are than all the other mobs in question.

[Madvillain]

I really was trying to avoid coming back because this is just one silly flame war now, but i'll indulge you.

30k/hr is not "best camp in the game".

Never said it was. You just claimed it had a lack of mobs. I said you were wrong. Hard to understand?

Puks take 75% as long to kill for 50% of the exp. They are a waste of time.

If you like puks, go to mire. Then you can masskill Ts for double-digit exp/kill all day long.

Yeah, Puks take waaaaay too long. Totally kills the exp chain of every party that goes there.

Please explain how having two bards makes ANY DIFFERENCE AT ALL in the speed of swapping out ONE song.

8 seconds is YOUR claim, not mine. When you are killing mobs in 20 seconds, 8 seconds to apply Mad and 8 seconds to reapply Min (plus 8 more to clear off Mad with another Min) is significant.

You were the gentleman acting like one song was going to ruin the world. It's no different changing a buff than singing to recast them.

No, I'm the one who was talking about the best camp in the game. If your party is too feeble to take advantage, then it doesn't matter where you camp. It only matters when you are good enough to push the maximum that the camp can support (read: you are elite).

I actually agree with you on this.

I also look forward to your explanation as to how a COR can Use More Skill and quickly reapply rolls when their recast is 50-60s at a minimum.

Because you don't have to recast rolls every 1 minute.....so when you lose them, you can recast them. Fuck, that's a hard concept.

Wait, what happened to "A single RDM can handle this with a competent set of DDs"?

Foot in mouth syndrom.

If I say that a single BRD is enough support for 30k/hr party, does that mean I can turn around and say, "I meant a single BRD... and also a COR and another BRD"?

meh, you've made-up rules to this along the way too. I made a post about what I prefer. I assumed you had over a middle school education to be able to apply that to my comments regarding that camp.

Um, yes. This is why you are the only person in this thread disputing how much worse Skoffins are than all the other mobs in question.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or if you're just confused from having to type so many words.

Anyway, last post, etc. not posting again, etc. flame bait, etc.

[FailureMidgard]

Why do you ignore my post, then post more inane drivel?

Yeah, Puks take waaaaay too long. Totally kills the exp chain of every party that goes there.

They do, they take as long if not longer than Mamool (any that gets off shadows or a flash takes longer than a mamool) for half the EXP. That is bad exp. That makes puks bad. See my other post.

You were the gentleman acting like one song was going to ruin the world. It's no different changing a buff than singing to recast them.

It's basically like your bard just not having a song up for ~1.5 mobs once every 5 minutes, that sounds acceptable to you? See other post by me

Because you don't have to recast rolls every 1 minute.....so when you lose them, you can recast them. Fuck, that's a hard concept.

Holy shit dude, how can you post this, then later post "Foot in mouth". My god it's classic.

Let's give you a timeline:

0:00 - Corsair
1:00 - Chaos
2:00 - Evoker
5:00 - Corsair wears off
5:01 - Corsair
5:23 - Skoffin dispels corsair's roll
6:00 - Chaos wears off
6:01 - Corsair roll
7:00 - EVoker wears off
7:01 - Chaos roll
8:01 - Evoker

So, in this very simple timeline, we went 38 seconds without corsair roll, 61 seconds without chaos roll, and 61 seconds without evoker's roll. It can actually get -worse- than that, if the Skoffin hits 2 rolls together, or 2 skoffin back to back both dispel a song.

This LOWERS EXP/HR. Get a fucking clue.

[Thunder]

Never said it was. You just claimed it had a lack of mobs. I said you were wrong. Hard to understand?

Best camp in your opinion. Mamool Ja SP consistently nets me better exp/hr everytime I have gone to merit. If birds is where you're getting your best exp, you don't merit with support or you blow at making merit parties. The only time my exp peaked at birds was in a DRG-burn party during the 2hd update.

He claimed it lacked mobs to be able to avoid all the exp hurting mobs you'll have to kill instead: puks and skoffins; lurkers and infiltrators, even(since you don't gear yourself for colibri why would you change gear for these).

I don't know if you really get it.. every time you fight a puk you're spending the same amount of time for less exp.. netting you less exp. Lurkers and Infiltrators lower exp because you take longer to kill them. And skoffins dispel. Where as Colibri have a 1/3-2/3 chance of tickling one melee depending on how quickly you kill?

This is getting out of hand, you're just repeating everything you have to say because you're.. wrong. Pushed back into a corner you've only got two choices: try and portray yourself as the bigger man and leave or

[Yugl]

Pushed back into a corner you've only got two choices: try and portray yourself as the bigger man and leave or

I'm so glad someone recognizes this. It's far to common to see people act like a bigger man by walking out of an argument hoping to get the last word in. It gets even better when they don't follow up though.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Meh, I just accepted the fact that he wasn't reading a word Dan or Failure were saying a page ago.

Arguing with brick walls ---->

[Yugl]

Meh, I just accepted the fact that he wasn't reading a word Dan or Failure were saying a page ago.

Arguing with brick walls ---->

Obviously talking to his avatar (Nice Avatar though; you and him).

[shaddix]

I was under the impression 30k/hr+ is possible at mjsp without a cor

[Starr]

Requesting a mod delete the exp party shit, it ruined another thread before. Also Failure, you get better gear to be better at events where time does matter (Einherjar, Limbus), and at harder camps than birds.

[Limlight]

I'd be all up on the war polearm thing but i'm already 8/8 Gaxe 8/8sword 4/4 shield. No polearm merits = i use gaxe on everything. If that makes me gimp then oh well. Really all this info and testing is nice but a lot of people aren't blowing their load on polearm merits just for meriting purposes. (Not knocking you guys who have just saying the vast majority of us don't) also equally my moogle head is going for rng so I can't really use that to make a proper penta ws build for war either :/

all that said, I still want to try war polearm @ birds, but I need 2 yovra still for a shadow gorget. (I still refuse to do it without at least a gorget) bleh so much extra work when I can keep up pretty well with my RR set up :/

[Cream Soda]

I'd be all up on the war polearm thing but i'm already 8/8 Gaxe 8/8sword 4/4 shield. No polearm merits = i use gaxe on everything. If that makes me gimp then oh well. Really all this info and testing is nice but a lot of people aren't blowing their load on polearm merits just for meriting purposes. (Not knocking you guys who have just saying the vast majority of us don't) also equally my moogle head is going for rng so I can't really use that to make a proper penta ws build for war either :/

all that said, I still want to try war polearm @ birds, but I need 2 yovra still for a shadow gorget. (I still refuse to do it without at least a gorget) bleh so much extra work when I can keep up pretty well with my RR set up :/

Yovra organs are the 2nd quickest to get (Xzomit being the first). Om'Yovra can be duo'd (a bit more difficult) or trio'd (very easily) for 100% drop. Can get 2 in no time.